Konstantin Samoilov: I am with Chauncey Hicks in Hermosa Beach, California. Chauncey loves “Fantasy” by Earth, Wind & Fire. Chauncey, welcome.

Chauncey Hicks: Thank you very much, Konstantin. Good to see you as always.

Konstantin Samoilov: What do you feel when you listen to Fantasy?

Chauncey Hicks: What do I feel when I listen to Fantasy? It’s sort of uncanny bittersweetness.

Konstantin Samoilov: Why uncanny?

Chauncey Hicks: Because it seems — I'll get right into it. The song seems to allude to dying and going to either — doesn't really matter — just dying, pretty much. Fantasy seems like an otherworldly something. So as such it's something I couldn't possibly imagine, but I think the song very succinctly represents these kind of conflicting emotions that would come with moving on to another thing.

Konstantin Samoilov: And why do you love that? Like, why was that the song that you would choose for this and what you would wanna talk about?

Chauncey Hicks: Well, when you asked me what songs do I enjoy, we started talking about it, I just picked what came to mind immediately, like I do with many things. And, don't get me wrong, there's probably a lot of other songs that I like more than Fantasy, there's probably a lot of other songs I've listened to many more times.

But if you ask me like, why I enjoy Funk Soul Brother by Fatboy Slim — I'm not saying I like that song more than Fantasy — but if you ask me why I like that song, I have a very stupid… it's cool, you know, it's cool. I have a very simple answer. I couldn't really explain why I enjoy it. It's just kinda like a silly, fun thing that's active and upbeat.

But Fantasy is more like something that if it's playing somewhere, I'm more likely to be transfixed on it, as opposed to it just being something that's existing in the background, like Fatboy Slim would.

Konstantin Samoilov: So would you say Fantasy is harder to talk about than other songs that you could have picked for this, or easier?

Chauncey Hicks: It's a little bit of both. It's harder to pinpoint what's great about it, I think, but it's easier to prattle on about directionlessly.

Konstantin Samoilov: Does it highlight a part of you that you really enjoy about yourself? That you like Fantasy: do you take it as part of you?

Chauncey Hicks: Only if I was trying to show off. If I wanted to impress somebody with my musical knowhow, I would play it and then very annoyingly give very minute commentary and assessments and talk about, “oh, heard that…”, you know. And I could imagine someone being like, “wow, that's crazy”, and in their minds being like, “please shut up”.

But I wouldn't say it necessarily represents anything more than my interests or things that I'd be thinking about whether or not that song existed. I wouldn't say there's any quality that I can identify with it other than it's relevant to my interests.

Konstantin Samoilov: So if someone says, “Chauncey is the human embodiment of the song Fantasy” — is that super reductive, or would you be honored?

Chauncey Hicks: I'd be honored, but also concerned a little bit I think. It'd be a fantastic honor, but no, going back on my previous answer, if it represents a part of me, I don't think it necessarily represents any of my favorite parts of me.

I think there's other songs that I would hope people would be like, yeah, that's that guy, F*****g—I dunno why I keep thinking about Fatboy Slim. I don't like that song that much, but that's like more my energy. I feel like that weird nineties break beat like stupidness.

Konstantin Samoilov: Would you be more honored if someone said, “Chauncey's the human embodiment of Funk Soul Brother”? Yes.

Chauncey Hicks: Yes. Because I think it's much more of a pointless song, and I think maybe there's a bit more truth to that. It's not saying anything, it's just like a pure embodiment. Might as well make the episode about Fatboy Slim.

That song is more of an embodiment of a very simple and pure emotion; where I feel like Fantasy is attempting something bigger. I'm not sure if it even is a perfect representation of what it's trying to do. But I think there's a lot you could discuss, a lot of individual components that you could break down and be like, that’s cool and that enhances this.

Konstantin Samoilov: So let's go back to the listening part, when you're listening to a fantasy, You feel neutral, you put on the song, let's say in your headphones and without a lot of other distractions, let's say you're walking. How are you beginning to feel, from neutral to you're now listening to Fantasy?

Chauncey Hicks: It's got a really unique intro. It's got these very brittle sounding keys that play sort of dissonant chords. So immediately that grabs my attention. So immediately if I have the headphones on, for a second I'm gonna be like, oh s**t. And then once the song gets going it's funky, but it's understated. It's a song that can put the hook on you.

So if it was a more brash song, maybe it'd come up on shuffle or something and I'd be like, ah, Christ, I can't listen to this right now. I'm not in the mood. But Fantasy, because it has a sort of mysterious opening, regardless of what mood I'm in, so let's say neutral, whatever it is I can get sucked into it.

Konstantin Samoilov: What material do you feel like when you listen to Fantasy, or what object? Maybe you haven't felt like this, but now that I say it, if it makes sense, what would it be? And if it doesn't make sense, we skip.

Chauncey Hicks: It kinda does make sense. There are some other songs that I tend to visualize when I listen to… with Fantasy, every time I listen to it, I see that album art and it's got like some pyramid looking, Egyptian grandiose thing.

To answer your question: maybe I haven't felt this in the past, but I described it now, in 2001: A Space Odyssey, during the Jupiter and beyond-the-infinite sequence, the flashy LSD looking sequence, it’s 20 minutes, it's all like boomer, trippy, nostalgia, whatever — there's these seven floating diamonds that show up, not explained. It's this kind of beautiful but weird thing floating in space.

I would say that, if I had to pick an object; something like that anyway, something beyond comprehension, but still quite beautiful, let's go with that.

Konstantin Samoilov: If an alien race comes to Earth and they're neutral towards us, as far as we can tell, and we play Fantasy for them. Do you think it would be more advantageous for us to just play it for them, or to play it and explain why we're playing this for them?

Chauncey Hicks: Oh, just play it. Absolutely. Just hit play and glare at them and see how they react and then decide how to treat them after that.

Konstantin Samoilov: The leader of a country and their closest advisors meet, like a top secret meeting. Fantasy is playing in the background the entire time. What nation's leader and advisors are most influenced by this and which are the least influenced?

Chauncey Hicks: I would say like 2002 Iraq would be most influenced. Least influenced, the Chinese.

Konstantin Samoilov: Current Chinese?

Chauncey Hicks: Any era Chinese, for their two millennia, five millennia-plus history.

Konstantin Samoilov: Are they just ignoring it? They're able to just not care that it’s playing?

Chauncey Hicks: Well, they've got walls to build. They've got important things to do. They can't get bogged down by Maurice White. If I could change my answer, I think most influenced would be… let's just move on to the next. I think it’s the best move — I’m gonna say some crazy things otherwise.

Konstantin Samoilov: Be as wild as possible here: how would you stage this song live?

Chauncey Hicks: Nothing crazy really. The music speaks for itself. It'd be a nice big ensemble. I wouldn't want any stage effects or any keyboard synth patches to cover up the rich instrumentation.

I have to say, what really sold this song for me — I was aware of it when I was a kid, but I was lucky enough to see Earth, Wind & Fire at the Hollywood Bowl 10 years ago or something. Great set. They played all the hits. Shining Star. Oh, it was awesome. Hearts of Fire. Oh, that's so cool. And one of their last songs was Fantasy. I was familiar with the song, but I wasn't particularly wowed by it.

But then as they played it, once they got to the chorus, which is really the outro to the song — the chorus doesn't really appear in the song, it's like a snippet of it — and they play the intro part again, and then the rest of the song is just chorus until it ends. And it's like a long structured chorus and it's just insistent and it gets bigger and bigger.

And I remember the last time they ran through it, the bassist was like jumping up and down. The intensity of that moment was very impressive to me. So as far as staging it live, I don't think you really need to dress it up at all. If you just have a strong ensemble performing the hell out of it, you’ll be able to tear the roof down, pretty much.

Konstantin Samoilov: What's the most opposite music to Fantasy that you also love?

Chauncey Hicks: Like, Slayer, probably. Metallica or Slayer fulfills completely opposite enjoyment.

Konstantin Samoilov: Final question: if Fantasy was a cross street in Los Angeles, which cross street would it be?

Chauncey Hicks: Exposition, and… Jefferson and Exposition cross. It's a weird curved “L”. I would say there, very transitory, almost liminal, that intersection.

Konstantin Samoilov: Chauncey Hicks, thank you very much.

Chauncey Hicks: F*****g love Los Angeles. All right, thank you very much. Konstantin. It’s been a lot of fun.

Konstantin Samoilov: I am with Natalia San Antonio in Ocean Grove, New Jersey. Natalia loves As It Was by Harry Styles. Natalia, welcome.

Natalia San Antonio: So great to be here. Thank you for having me. 

Konstantin Samoilov: What do you feel when you listen to As It Was? 

Natalia San Antonio: I feel a lot of different emotions. It has been my number one song for almost a full year since it came out in I think April or March of last year. And ever since then, it's been my top song on Spotify. When I first listened to it, it really sounded Take On Me, the eighties song. And it just had that wonderful eighties feel. And I really love eighties music.

So it made me wanna dance. That was the first feeling that I had when I listened to it. But there's just so much to it. Like I feel nostalgia when I listen to it. I feel sadness when I listen to it, and I think I can listen to it in so many different settings. Like it just fits out any mood that I'm in. So that's why it's my favorite. 

Konstantin Samoilov: What places do you associate with it? If any? 

Natalia San Antonio: Yeah, when it first came out I was in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. So I definitely associate it with Bishkek and especially during that time, like spring. And there was a really nice park by my apartment in Bishkek and I remember walking through the park and listening to it then.

And I think a lot about just the memories that I had in Bishkek and the type of person that I was in Bishkek and how I am different now and kind of how that song relates to all of that. And I'm a person who, like, when I listen to a song, I always think of the memories that I had when I listened to it first. And I think that's really important.

Konstantin Samoilov: Do you feel that this song more turns you into a different person while you're listening to it, or heightens who you are? Or both?

Natalia San Antonio: Yeah, I think it kind of does both. So this song is a lot kind of about someone changing and how there was this fleeting moment when something was one way and then it's never gonna be that way again. It's not the same as it was.

And I think that says a lot about myself, like thinking about myself maybe before the song came out, before I was abroad versus my experiences after I was abroad. Cuz I felt like that changed me a lot. And in some ways I'm a different person, but in other ways I feel like much more myself than I've ever felt.

Konstantin Samoilov: Why do you think As It Was is one of the most popular songs of the past few years?

Natalia San Antonio: Yeah, I definitely think a lot of it has to do with just how upbeat it is and how it has like the familiar eighties vibe and it reminds you of a lot of old songs. And specifically in the end it reminded me of, like, wedding bells and really just exciting getting up and dancing. 

And I think that's what makes it a big hit, and that's why it's been on number one for so long. But when you look at the words, it makes you really sad. And I think that's what I like so much about it, because in one sense it can be this hit that everyone loves, but there's just so much more to it.

And I think it's like one of the more sad songs that I know just because on the outside it's so upbeat, but it's actually, like, heartbreaking. And you know, there can be songs that are just sad songs. They have a sad melody and sad words, but when a song is like — on the outside, it seems very happy, but then when you actually look at it, it can be the opposite, I think that has a lot more meaning to it and can have many more layers to it. 

Konstantin Samoilov: Melodically, do you hear sadness too or just lyrically? 

Natalia San Antonio: I mean definitely lyrically, but melodically I'd say overall, no. But there are some parts where I can kind of — maybe I'm making it up, but I can kind of sense there's some sadness to it. Like in the chorus, like the  “in this world it's just us, it's not the same as it was”. Like, that part I can kind of see. And I've always wondered what the song would be like if the melody was sad and slow.

And I think that'd be interesting. I know some people did remake the song. But I don't know. I think it would be cool if Harry did that, like kind of an alternative version, even though I don't think I'd like it as much. I think it's perfect the way it is right now. 

Konstantin Samoilov: Have you heard this live? 

Natalia San Antonio: No, I haven't. But I wish I could. I’ve seen a lot of live videos of it and that's usually — in his concerts it's a really big crowd pleaser. Everyone is really excited. And yeah, it's one of his really really big upbeat songs during the concert. 

Konstantin Samoilov: You mentioned nostalgia. Moving later in life, much later, are you excited to be nostalgic about this song? 

Natalia San Antonio: Oh my gosh, I'm very excited. Honestly, I love nostalgia and I just love feeling nostalgia. Even though I found recently, sometimes it's hard for me to listen to this song. Just because there's so much attached to it, I think, and it's like, oh, I don't wanna be in my feels right now. I'm not gonna listen to this song. 

But I definitely am excited because, you know, the song came out in such like a wonderful time in my life and a time where I was really able to like, explore myself. And I think that, you know, it's a wonderful timestamp to have. For the future, for future me.

Konstantin Samoilov: Our third guest, Hallie, said that you need to be saved from Harry Styles. Is Hallie right in any way? 

Natalia San Antonio: I appreciated that she was trying to save me from Harry Styles, but I honestly don't think I could ever be saved from Harry Styles, and I think that's a good thing. I've always been a fan of his, but especially during the pandemic, his music was really something that kept me going, kept me positive.

And yeah, it's really fun liking an artist so much where you know everything about that person. And I don't know, his music is just so good. I can't stop listening to it.

Konstantin Samoilov: Should Hallie listen to more Harry Styles instead? 

Natalia San Antonio: I mean, yeah, I think so. I'm not gonna make anyone listen to any type of music, but I definitely think even though As It Was is very popular and I love it, I think some of his real gems are in the songs that people don't know as well. And I feel like that's the case with a lot of artists. They have hits and then which aren't as meaningful or — well, maybe that's not true, but yeah, I think it's nice listening to everything from an artist to kind of get a full glimpse of them before you make your opinions. 

Konstantin Samoilov: What's the most opposite music to As It Was that you also love? 

Natalia San Antonio: Well, I've been really listening to The Strokes a lot — this is just the first thing that popped into my head, but I was in the car with Julia, and there's a song that I've been loving called Ode to the Mets by the Strokes, and that song is very slow and it's very long and it's very — well, nostalgic, so I guess it's not completely opposite to As It Was, but there's a very clear vibe that's different and I was talking to Julia about As It Was and Ode to the Mets, and I was like — finally Ode to the Mets is my number one Spotify song, As It Was is no longer. And she was like, thank goodness, because Ode to the Mets, it's a sad song, but As It Was is so much sadder, so I'm glad that like you've transitioned out of that. I’m like, you're right. 

Yeah, so I'd probably say that one. Cause I'm not gonna dance to that song. I'm gonna dance to As It Was, and I have danced to it many times.

Konstantin Samoilov: if As It Was was a drink in a cafe, which drink would it be? 

Natalia San Antonio: That's a great question. I would say, As It Was could be a nice little cappuccino moment. Because from the first sips of a cappuccino, you have the foam and that's pretty light, just as the melody in As It Was is, but when you get deeper, you get to the espresso, which is, you know, pretty strong, similarly to As It Was when you look deeper and have the opportunity to think about more about what the lyrics are and how they relate to you.

Like a pop of espresso. If you want, you could add a little syrup in there, like caramel or vanilla. That's not my thing, but, you know, if.

Konstantin Samoilov: A remix. Natalia, thank you very much. My pleasure.

Natalia San Antonio: Yeah, thank you. I appreciated it.

Konstantin Samoilov: I am with Richard Hansen, living in Baltimore, Maryland. Richard enjoys “Hatred Has A Mother” by Jesca Hoop. Welcome, Richard. 

Richard Hansen: Hey, what a pleasure to be with you in this venue. 

Konstantin Samoilov: What do you feel when you listen to it, Richard?

Richard Hansen: I think it's just a surprising song. It's a bubbly, surprising song. I love — I feel inspired to action in some way when I listen to it, I suppose. 

Konstantin Samoilov: What kind of action? 

Richard Hansen: I guess what's interesting about it is you have all these trumpets and sort of horn sounds leading to something, leading to some action, and the action is more internal than anything, so it’s like looking in the mirror, giving yourself some love, right? Recognizing humanity in other people. So it's more internal introspective, I suppose, which is kind of cool. 

Konstantin Samoilov: Do you also feel part of a bigger whole? Like it's a marching band type of sound. Are you imagining walking with a group of people or not?

Richard Hansen: Yeah, I think you would be walking with a group of — you know, you can imagine this because it's an introspective type of song. But yeah, I suppose in the mental landscape, that's what happens. You know, you're driving, you can sing along, you wanna sing with other people. The chorus, you know, it's nice. 

Konstantin Samoilov: What do you want to do when you listen to it? Like, other than self-improvement or whatever? With other people, let's say.

Richard Hansen: What do I wanna do?

Konstantin Samoilov: Yeah.

Richard Hansen: With other people? 

Konstantin Samoilov: Yeah, does it make you want to improve things about the world, let's say? I mean, it's such a sort of get-up-and-go sound. 

Richard Hansen: Yeah, I suppose it makes you wanna interact with people in a more positive way, give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't know, it's a rare song because I think it encourages that sort of positivity, right? Viewing other people as human beings, even if… I don't know, I don't know what to say.

Konstantin Samoilov: Sure. How'd you discover it?

Richard Hansen: I was listening to WTMD. WTMD, baby, here in Baltimore.

Konstantin Samoilov: *See No Stranger: A Memoir and Manifesto of Revolutionary Love* by Valarie Kaur describes revolutionary love partly as “to see no stranger, but instead look at others and say: you are part of me I do not yet know.” Is this relevant to your connection to this song?

Richard Hansen: Of course! I mean, it's the basic premise to the song, isn't it, right? It's about looking in the mirror. It's about giving yourself that revolutionary love and spreading it to other people. 

Konstantin Samoilov: If the lyrics were different, would your experience with this be like 50% different, 10% different, 90% different?

Richard Hansen: Like, 100% different, probably. 90%, we'll say 90% cuz it's got a peppy beat, it's a nice sound, but I'd say the lyrics — yeah, of course the message is in the song lyrics, but the way it's delivered I think is what kind of gives it that extra pop for me, I guess. It's got a nice message, but then the production… But yeah, it's the lyrics essentially. 

Konstantin Samoilov: So the reason that you enjoy it: 90% due to the meaning?

Richard Hansen: I would say, yeah. It leaves me feeling happy, positive with some sort of different perspective on to take forward into the day, I guess.

Konstantin Samoilov: What is the human being version of the song? You can name a person that reminds you most, or you can create a person.

Richard Hansen: Oh. I mean, it would be someone who — I don't know if I know anyone particularly like this, right? But a very open kind of person. Someone who is just friendly toward everybody, you know, who might come around, gives everyone the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not sure what kind of a person this is, you hardly meet a person like this, right? Because we tend to get lost in recriminations of judgment or whatever when we meet people. But someone who can approach every interaction with an openness, I guess, and a genuineness.

Konstantin Samoilov: Does “Hatred Has A Mother” make you less analytical while being quite enjoyable, or does it keep your analytical mind while also being enjoyable at the same time?

Richard Hansen: I can enjoy — Yeah, I mean, I can enjoy it on a lot of different levels, I think. There's a, you know, the catchiness of the tune and everything like that, that engages you on a sort of more, I guess, primal level. And there's a, you know, communal element to it. I guess that's a little more primal.

But then the analytical — it's hard for me to separate the two sometimes, you know, you can get a good beat and everything, but for a song like this, I think that it's that fusion with the analytical level where you're talking about, like: oh, what's the message here? There's some contradictory images you have to make — you have to parse what's going on in the song and try to understand. So I mean, there's always an analytical part. 

Konstantin Samoilov: What are the things for you that heighten emotion and decrease analysis more than music does?

Richard Hansen: Probably rock climbing, running, being out in nature, things like that. Hiking, being out for a long time. I feel like music can take you someplace very quickly. Other experiences that I might have that are similar that take you out of that analytical frame of mind and more into just a feelings place would be — I don't know, they take longer. 

Going out and backpacking in the wilderness might take two or three days to like, get out of that frame of mind and be able to feel the same way. But a song can take you someplace so instantly and that's what's really good about this song. I love how it's able to do that with that nice beat. 

Konstantin Samoilov: Have you ever experimented with that with music? So — tomorrow I'm going to listen to music, basically the whole day. Different albums, different genres, or one — and see if you could get yourself to that point that you talked about: two to three days of backpacking. 

Richard Hansen: I don't know. I don't think that it would work that way. If I wanna listen to music, I'm just gonna turn on… I couldn't approach it like that, you know, it wouldn't make sense to me as like a vehicle for that sort of thing, I suppose.

Konstantin Samoilov: In what environment would you want to hear the song live the most?

Richard Hansen: You know, one time I went to a concert — you know Kimya Dawson?

Konstantin Samoilov: I do not.

Richard Hansen: She is like a folk person. She did some of the music on the Juno soundtrack. She had a concert in Albuquerque. and it was a free concert in this public courtyard — I don't even know, like a courtyard of a government building or something, like a plaza — and 400 or so people were there, 500 people.

And it was such a great venue because we were all kind of like on the same level and very close to each other, and she played a song at the end — I can't remember what it was, it was so long ago, more than a decade ago — and we all kind of had a big group hug at the end. And she was at the middle and maybe she was killed or not, who knows.

And it was so great cuz it was just such like a communal crowd experience. And I think yeah, something like that would be great. I would love to sing it with a group of people and a big crowd. And then we all have a big hug at the end. That would be nice. A few hundred people, it couldn’t be a huge crowd. That'd be an ideal listening experience, I suppose. 

Konstantin Samoilov: Albuquerque too, or a different place? 

Richard Hansen: Dry air! Albuquerque. It's got that dry air. Good acoustics. Wonderful. 

Konstantin Samoilov: What's the most opposite music to this song that you also enjoy? Genre?

Richard Hansen: Oh boy. That's a good question. Yeah, I'm just trying to think what would constitute opposite precisely. Do you know this guy named Peter Blood? 

Konstantin Samoilov: I do not. 

Richard Hansen: He's got this song called “Osama's Daughter”. 

Konstantin Samoilov: Okay.

Richard Hansen: That's probably pretty opposite to this and I like that. 

Konstantin Samoilov: What genre is it? 

Richard Hansen: I don't really know what to… some kind of rock. I don't know.

Konstantin Samoilov: Okay. Humans are able to create the song, “Hatred Has A Mother”. What does that tell you about the human race?

Richard Hansen: We are capable of conceiving, of relating to each other in ways that would lead to greater happiness, I guess, for the whole species — for anyone, right? We can conceive of ways of relating to each other so nicely, yet we can't seem to put it into practice, but it's so interesting how we are able to envision it right there, right? And have it, and make it something that people want, right? And I think that's very special, you know?

Konstantin Samoilov: Richard, thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. 

Richard Hansen: Thank you!

Konstantin Samoilov: I am with Hallie Rathfelder, currently in Washington DC and living in Portland, Oregon. Halle loves “Common People” by Pulp. What do you feel when you listen to it, Hallie?

Hallie Rathfelder: I feel, oh, firstly, I just have so many thoughts about the song because it is legitimately my favorite song. Like people ask, what's like your desert island songs?

And it is my desert island song. But I feel most deeply just the overarching theme of class and class tourism. I think social class is a theme that's grossly overlooked in songwriting, but the thing that it makes me feel the most is: it takes me back to when I was a freshman at university and I fell in love with this British guy who came from a very wealthy family. And it really just takes me back to all the contours and emotions of that relationship and everything I felt when I was in that relationship. And I think it articulates my emotions better than I ever could, and that's really why I love it so much.

Konstantin Samoilov: When you said desert island you, you know about Desert Island Discs, the podcast, the BBC one? So it's when they choose like eight discs, eight basically songs that they would take on a desert island.

Hallie Rathfelder: You told me about this!

Konstantin Samoilov: So, it's chronological, right? And it goes usually from like childhood t o the end and stuff. And I'm wondering where Common People would — in the eight — at which point would you introduce it? Maybe third, fourth, fifth, or first?

Hallie Rathfelder: Yeah, third, third. I think third's a good spot because I think that time was the time I became — I achieved personal class consciousness, if that isn't the cringiest phrase ever.

But yeah, I'd say that's about the time I really started having a lot of reflection about my childhood and my economic situation growing up. So, yeah, I agree with that placing, third.

Konstantin Samoilov: The love, the particular love you had for this song — because it's like so British in tone and in sound — like did it connect to that particular love?

Hallie Rathfelder: That's a very interesting question. Well, first of all, the lead singer in Pulp, his name is Jarvis Cocker, which is just the most delightfully British name ever. I think it wasn't so much the fact that it was British pop, it was more just the way I could identify with the lyrics, I think, and the closeness I felt with the lyrics.

But the fact that it — like British pop will forever be indescribably amazing and I think one of the purest forms of rock music, especially up and coming eighties, nineties — but I would say I felt like I connected it — like I felt like I was the narrator in this song and I kind of mirrored my own personal relationship to his with this Greek girl. That's kind of more my experience with it, where my love comes from.

Konstantin Samoilov: And now when you listen to it, what do you want do when you hear it? Internally, externally?

Hallie Rathfelder: Internally? Like, what do I wanna do with it internally? Internally, when I listen to it, I really place myself — because one of the things I think that makes this song great is it has a really strong visual narrative — and I really, when I listen to it, I really play back in my head sort of the video reel I have of that relationship. 

And all the times I felt like we were just kind of — in all the ways we were compatible, we were kind of staring at each other across this economic divide. And that's what I think really pushed us away from each other.

So when I do listen to it, which is often — it's great for exercising, it's great for like unwinding, it's just an any time anywhere song. But when I listen to it, the first thing that comes inside is sort of this merry-go-round of images and scenes from that relationship that I just kind of like play over and over again on loop, where I feel like it sort of mirrors the situations in the song, all the times I felt like we were just so completely from different worlds because of the way we interacted with the world, interacted with finances, experiences, wanting to do things together, and all the times we would clash over that.

It would always sort of lead to like these tributaries of small disagreements that really didn’t at the time feel like a big deal because everybody fights about money. My parents fight about money constantly, so I just kind of push it away. But all those little moments, it's kind of my own personal visual soundtrack.

And then physically it just makes me wanna dance. It makes me like… I have so much — no, this sounds unhealthy, maybe cause of my own personal social class, I have a lot of harbored resentment towards rich people — I mean, no one is inherently bad and no one is inherently good, it's cuz where they come from in life, but, yada, yada yada.

So, I mean, it really makes me wanna dance. Like not the freaking song Dance Monkey — like I feel nothing inside when I listen to this. But this, it just makes me want to express so much physical and internal emotion.

Konstantin Samoilov: And do you dance, and how do you dance?

Hallie Rathfelder: Yeah, of course I dance. I can’t not dance, no matter where I am I dance when I listen to this song. I was waiting for the 33 in Georgetown outside the Russian embassy yesterday. And this song came on shuffle. I was kind of like [dances] doing a little [dances].

Konstantin Samoilov: Your movements were kind of smooth. They weren't sort of like cropped and chopped and like, you know, jittery. Or is it sometimes that?

Hallie Rathfelder: No, I mean, I was outside in the public, so I wasn't gonna fully, like, let go. But if I am alone when I listen to this song, it's just no barriers. I just feel it so much inside.

Konstantin Samoilov: Explosiveness.

Hallie Rathfelder: Explosiveness. Yeah. Commonness.

Konstantin Samoilov: Yeah, I had a question for you, I was like, “do you want to live in the universe that that this song paints, or live through this storyline?” And would you say that you have?

Hallie Rathfelder: I feel like I definitely lived through the storyline and I think that was the heaviest experience. Feeling like someone used a part of you to advance their own personal experience, or feeling like you were sort of an economic amusement park for someone else, if that makes any sense.

The most heartbreaking line in the song to me is right in the beginning: “I took her to a supermarket / I don't know why / But I had to start it somewhere / So it started there”, and she was like laughing and smiling about it, and then there's that one line: “I can't see anyone else smiling in here”.

So I think that's the most beautifully heartbreaking part of the song. I think that to the girl and to the guy I was with, it was all fun and games, but the genius of this song I would say lies in the fact that it's such a great melody and so electric and beautifully composed.

But I mean, it is quite sad. People living in economic hardship on the lower levels of society and people come into — they want to take a walk through the museum, but they don't actually want to be part of that life. Like there's always an exit for you, but none of these other people are smiling because to them it's their life.

Konstantin Samoilov: A recent tweet, quote:

Have you had a similar experience?

Hallie Rathfelder: I'm running to my minimum wage job listening to “Common People”. I use it as personal motivation. No, but I definitely feel like in terms of themes of social class, like I will always be common and I know that in my heart and in my soul, but I think rich people are sort of born being told that they're deserving of the world and are going to give the world back as much as they receive from it.

My parents growing up, my mom was like, “oh, you're so special”, and then my dad coming 30 seconds later, “she's not special. She's one of so many. Hallie, don't ever think you're special. Like, the goal is survival.”

So when I hear this song — I mean, it's never helped me catch a bus, but it does remind me that I'm part of the majority, and at the end of the day, I'll always be part of the majority. They're the few, we are the many, and that's what really I think is the motivation in this song. 

Konstantin Samoilov: And this song is so popular. Have you talked about it in detail with other people and how do they feel, if you have?

Hallie Rathfelder: No, I've always held this song close to myself. It's insanely, insanely popular, and I know it's not underground or anything, but I've only encouraged someone to listen to this song. The only person is Natalia actually, because she posted on her Instagram, give me song recommendations. And I was like, okay, I need to save this girl from Harry Styles. So I typed in “Common People” by Pulp, and when I saw her in Jersey, she said she loved it. I mean, I'm really glad she did, but I mean, I have yet to meet someone at work who knows it or listens to it.

Konstantin Samoilov: So I would say that the quiet part of “Common People” is until let's say 1:45, and then it sort of explodes into that chorus. If you took a human life, where would you say — at what age would you say that explosion happens where the loud part of “Common People” begins? For you or in general.

Hallie Rathfelder: 17. 17 I think is really where you kind of get pushed off the cliff emotionally, physically, mentally. I think that's where I started to have a lot — I'm not gonna say better cognizance over my life, cause I was a f*****g idiot then and I'm probably still a f*****g idiot right now. Oh, I'm not allowed to swear! Sorry!

Konstantin Samoilov: I never said you're not allowed to swear. 

Hallie Rathfelder: Well, I'm not proper. I'm common, so I'm gonna swear. Yeah, I think 17 is really the age, like, everything starts getting very fast and it's sort of decision time. 

What was the age for you? Where's the fast part of “Common People” in your life? Did it come earlier or later than 17? 

Konstantin Samoilov: For me, I actually think it's maybe somewhere in the next few years. Oddly, yeah, because sort of looking at my twenties now, only basically seven months removed from my twenties, I look at it as quite a slow period, for a variety of different reasons, but — surprisingly slow, I guess, given what I think, but I guess makes sense considering other parts of my personality. So maybe I would put it at something like 32, 33. We'll see.

Hallie Rathfelder: Oh, do you feel like — I'm sorry, I don't wanna hijack your own interview — but do you feel like your twenties went very fast? Maybe I should ask this later. We can talk later.

Konstantin Samoilov: No, I don't. I worry that my thirties will go faster, as a lot of people say. But my twenties seemed like a long time.

Hallie Rathfelder: That's good.

Konstantin Samoilov: Which is good, yeah. If you had the chance to stage “Common People” live in concert, and you can pick the venue and concert, would there be any cool elements you would do, for staging it live?

Hallie Rathfelder: This is a very good question. I — maybe it's cause I'm currently in Washington DC, but I would stage it in the Rotunda of the Capitol building, because ostensibly is the people's house — but it is a British song. And I guess maybe that can interweave the two narratives, huh? Maybe in the people's house, or maybe, if I had the money and I could kick everybody out, in Buckingham Palace or something.

Something that contrasts the narrative of the song with the surrounding imagery. But I think I would want all the extras to look very regal. I would want obvious displays of wealth and then I would want that contrasted with scenes of actual reality.

So I think that's sort of play I would do, but that seems a bit expected in a way. It's my first thought, but maybe if I thought about it a little longer, I could come up with something that would subvert expectations a bit. But I think that's sort of the idea I have in my head, somewhere that's so obviously supposed to belong to everybody, but has been sort of usurped by a very small portion of the population so that it now is inaccessible to most.

But that's sort of — I’d wanna maybe something a bit more unexpected, but I think for now, that's my answer. Where would you put it?

Konstantin Samoilov: If you think of other options, you can write me and I'll add it to the show notes. Where would I put it? Yeah, I would love to have — I think we don't have enough small concerts, so like, in the same kind of loudness and bombastic nature as large concerts are, but for a small number of people where everyone can sort of interact with things. 

So when I imagine things, I think a lot of weddings and stuff like that. Weddings are a great place to experiment with live shows. So something where love blooms and some kind of wedding somewhere, and then you would go somewhere completely — so, Greenland, I don't know, Namibia, you know, random places around the world where the song is maybe not the first thing you'd think of.

Hallie Rathfelder: I just imagine him like [strutting] around Buckingham Palace in a workman's uniform, or like the most like average clothing you've ever seen. I just want that kind of contrast. Anyway, keep going. Yeah. I just had that image in my head for a second.

Konstantin Samoilov: And you said you would kick everyone out of Buckingham Palace. So who remains? 

Hallie Rathfelder: The people. The common people, and the girl. Yeah.

Konstantin Samoilov: if “Common People” was a day of the year, which day would it be?

Hallie Rathfelder: It would be in August, I think. 15th of August, because I'd want it to be a summer month so everyone could dance together. That might be too hot. No — August 15th, I declare our “Common People” day, because I feel like August as much as it’s sort of the dog days of summer, the dregs of it, it's a time that's afforded to everyone. Or it should be afforded to everyone, so they can rest and enjoy the sun and the nature. So August 15th. Where do you place it?

Konstantin Samoilov: Yeah, I think something summery. 

Hallie Rathfelder: Yeah, maybe May Day. 

Konstantin Samoilov: May 30th.

Hallie Rathfelder: That's a good one. I like that better than August 15th, that doesn't sound as humid.

Konstantin Samoilov: We'll put it as both. 

Hallie Rathfelder: It's both.

Konstantin Samoilov: “Common People” day. Hallie, thank you very much!

Hallie Rathfelder: Thank you, Kostya. I absolutely love this idea, and thank you for your amazing questions. They really made me think about how I interact with music and everything. 

Konstantin Samoilov: My pleasure.

Hallie Rathfelder: Spasibo bolshoye. [“Thank you” in Russian]

Konstantin Samoilov: Thanks. Spasibo.

Chris Frutos: I feel inspired. I feel a little sad, but also I guess a little, like, excited, and I like singing and that song's really fun to sing — but I’m not gonna sing it for you right now. But, like, it's fun to sing along when you're in the car or in the shower. That song has a lot of, like, mourning of a past relationship, it seems like. I mean, just cause from what I've, from how I interpret the song, it might be other things.

But it's a cool song cause it goes from very mellow and just like, very… Jeff is kind of whispering to you some stuff and he kind of says, like, “There's a moon asking to stay, far along…”, or — I didn't even pull up the lyrics cause I didn't even come that prepared. But he’s like, “There's a moon asking to stay / Long enough for the clouds to fly me away / It's my time coming, I'm not afraid, afraid to die.” 

And it just kind of, like, puts you into… Just a quiet, like, I don't know if you wanna play the song, if that's how this format goes or whatever, but it just starts off kind of setting you up for something and then yeah, it has, it goes into more, like, energy slowly or in, like, I would say more of like a terrace.

Right? It's not like a straight line up, but it's like a terrace and like another terrace, if that makes sense. Does that kind of make sense? Yeah. I dunno if that answers the question. I forgot the question. I'm just talking about it.

Konstantin Samoilov: You got it. What do you feel inspired by when you — you said inspired, was the first thing you said. What inspired?

Chris Frutos: Well, I think the song hints at, or it's getting at him wanting to move on. He talks about it as in terms of death, but I think it's more so like going onto the next part. He's just like, he's not afraid to die. But another lyric that he brings onto that is he kind of is frustrated in that this stage he's in, or this… himself waiting to go.

It's coming so slowly. So he just feels like he's, you could say trapped, or kind of anxious. But I think from that anxiety comes inspiration. I don't know, I guess… there's parts of the song that also just kind of like push you, you know, they, they kind of just like push you forward.

Konstantin Samoilov: Like, when you feel inspired…

Chris Frutos: Go ahead. 

Konstantin Samoilov: You feel inspired, like, career-wise or social more, or relationship related more? 

Chris Frutos: All of 'em, I would say. Cause you know, I feel like there's sometimes songs that you just listen to and you feel something, even though they're talking about something else, like a song could be talking about, you know, booty and twerking and all that kind of stuff.

And for you, you just like, you don't even know what, what they're saying sometimes, you just like how it's going, you know, how the beat's going, how everything's going. So I guess you could say in any aspect it could, it could change, I'm not sure. 

Konstantin Samoilov: And do you think about, like, one particular relationship from the past or like all, like whatever…?

Chris Frutos: As far as relationships… well, I was in a long term relationship for a while. Not in it now, it’s been, like, a year and a half now, but I guess I could think about that one. But I think all my relationships, just little ones I've had before and after that. 

Maybe it's just more so myself. I think the more important one is the relationship with myself. Yeah, that's probably a big one. I mean, that's the one that stays with you, right? Always.

Konstantin Samoilov: Do you know anyone else that's super into the song that you've, like, talked about it with?

Chris Frutos: Oh, yeah. My friends from high school, they're the ones that really showed me Jeff Buckley, like, in high school. And I mean, I love the… mainly the main album he released before he died, which was in like ’95, which is called “Grace” as well.

Do you know about this album? Have you heard it yourself? Sure you must have.

Konstantin Samoilov: I've heard “Grace”, you showed — I ended up listening to “Grace” because of you. I've not heard the album yet.

Chris Frutos: Oh, how'd you… If you don't mind me, like, I hope it isn’t a waste of a show, but how'd you feel about it? How'd you like the song?

Konstantin Samoilov: I… so, it was immediately sort of classic in tone, like sort of the early nineties.

I was just looking at it, the Wikipedia page, and I like that — one of the genres it's in is Celtic Rock. And I didn’t, like, perceive it beforehand, but then when I read it, I was like, oh yeah, it totally has, like, Celtic elements. And I like a lot of that type of stuff, so it made me like it more.

Chris Frutos: What is Celtic Rock, if you don't mind going to, like — what are those sounds that you're…

Konstantin Samoilov: It's those instruments. It's those typical sort of Celtic instruments that permeate in a lot of different genres and stuff. And I just have like an addiction to those. I'll have to look up exactly what it is.

Chris Frutos: Is one of 'em like an accordion kind of instrument? Because there's this other song he has called “Lover, You Should've Come Over”, and the beginning has that, like accordion, or not an accordion…

[Konstantin note: turns out it’s a harmonium!]

Nevermind, not to get into that too much — like, what's one instrument that is Celtic, if you might happen to know?

Konstantin Samoilov: Harp.

Chris Frutos: Okay.

Konstantin Samoilov: Yeah. What's a song that's like the complete opposite to “Grace” that you also love?

Chris Frutos: Oh man, that's a hard one because, as I said, “Grace” has so many parts to it that belong to so many emotions that — there's no opposite to, you know, I mean, a song that I could think of… let me see. Let me pull up my library. Try to just… cause I think I know what you're getting at.

I mean, as far as like genres and... steering away from the emotionality that it has, maybe something that wouldn't, so I mean… “Just A Stranger” by Kali Uchis, why not. And I'm not even sure why anymore. I mean, I guess you don't — it's just a fun song —you don't get into… it's fun, but it's also, I wouldn’t say — I mean, it's passionate, too. I mean, all songs are passion, have passion in 'em, so it's hard.

You know, that's one thing about coming into this medium, you know, music, and not something like movies or shows is like, there's actors involved and they're performing and they're, it's like they're telling you how… or like they're acting, like in the end they're still acting some emotion or some concept, you know?

But like music, it just always seems like the artists who sing it always feel that stuff. You know, they actually are that stuff, you know? And when you see a movie, it's almost like like a composure of emotions, but behind it and what's actually in front of you is not really any of that. I mean, that's what kind of tricks you, I guess.

But I don't know. I feel like with music, it's more real. It's more… yeah, it's like there, it's really there, like right behind, you know, the voice or behind those instruments and all that. Maybe just more so like when you sing, more than anything. You see people rocking out with their guitars and the drum, everything, really any instrument, but mainly singing, I feel. It really comes from the soul, you know? So tying that in, it's hard to say like, oh, this song doesn't have passion. That song doesn't have this, that, so it's kind of a hard question really, I think.

Konstantin Samoilov: And the high school friends that showed you “Grace”, like, do you feel sort of connected to them in that way, and…

Chris Frutos: Yeah. I mean, I think we all have our own, like — I see blue, you see blue, but I think in the end, we all see it differently, but yeah, like when we're together, we're in a car, the album “Grace” definitely would come up. I guess another band that we really got into together is Deer Hunter. I like Act III the most, that's probably the one I listen to the most. And it's surprisingly… a lot of high-pitch voice — you know, Jeff Buckley has really, really high highs, and those lows are there as well. As far as like his, what do you even call it? His range.

Konstantin Samoilov: And when is the next time you expect to listen to “Grace”?

Chris Frutos: Oh, dude. Tonight sometime’ I'm sure. I mean, it’s just fun, I mean, that song is just great. “Wait in the fire, wait in the fire...” Yeah, it's good, it's a great song.

Konstantin Samoilov: Cool! Well, Chris, thank you very much.

Chris Frutos: Thank you, man. Nice speaking with you, dude.

Natalie Taylor: I feel a lot of things. First, I will say I've been listening to Pentatonix ever since university, basically. And I just, I've been a choir kid all my life. So, it's just, the group Pentatonix itself is very relatable. But when I listen to their cover of “My Heart With You”, originally by The Rescues, I just feel… I feel cozy, yet uplifted at the same time. It's almost like — I was thinking about it a bit earlier — it feels like being wrapped in a thick, luxurious blanket, something that is like $500 or something. And knowing that you don't have to do anything. You don't have to do any work. You can just take your time and enjoy the moment. And that's what the song makes me feel mostly.

Konstantin Samoilov: Do you tend to… I guess the blanket part and the, like, don't do anything part, do you, do you tend to listen to it when you're already in that mood, or do you tend to listen to it when you want to get into that mood?

Natalie Taylor: Oh, that's a great question. I think mostly when I want to get in that mood and when I, lately, when I do turn on this song, it's like five times at least I'll have it on a loop just because I love it so much. Like for example, packing to come to the U.S., I just had it on a loop like five to 10 times just because it made me feel relaxed but also motivated to get packing done. Which sounds, like, which sounds kind of terrible in a way to, like, use this song to get something else done. But for me it worked and did the trick.

Konstantin Samoilov: So packing must be kind of like a little bit meditative for you or, or somewhat flow in a way, cause this isn't a kind of, super fast paced, like, energetic song that gets you to like, do a thing in a kind of, you know, your stereotypical way really fast. It's like, the packing here would be, like, slowly folding the clothes, putting them in, kind of a very, like…

Natalie Taylor: Oh, honey, no, I'm not a… It's quite the opposite. For me, like, packing causes me some anxiety just because there's lots to think about and I tend to overthink when it comes to packing.

So when I put on “My Heart With You”, it's something that just calms me down and kind of makes me stop overthinking about, like, pointless crap when it comes to packing. So for me it was a way to think about something else and just kind of relax me at the same time doing something that is otherwise stressful.

Konstantin Samoilov: Mm-hmm. I thought, like, when I was listening to it — so I don't listen to a lot of Pentatonix and I will usually listen to a lot more, like, loud whatever stuff, and thus this was new to me, but like, the negative space in that song, where they sing and then silence, and they sing and then silence, and then — I really enjoyed that. Like, what is your experience with having this, you know, having the song go into actual complete silences?

Natalie Taylor: Oh, I love it. I mean, it just at the beginning of the song too, where the, the entire song, and I think you'll agree, they take their time throughout, which is kind of, mmm, it's magical in a way.

Like, mmm, it's hard to describe. It almost feels, like, too luxurious. It almost feels like it's a song that you should pay for because it takes its time. And yeah, I feel like I kind of savor those moments in between the beautiful five-part harmonies. Well, it starts off with a three-part harmony and then it goes into a five-part harmony, which is absolutely gorgeous at the end. There's a specific word that I want to talk about in the end when they have the five-part harmony. I believe it's when the five-part harmony starts, it's this, mmm, it's like halfway through the song and it's on the word “survive”. Oh, it's so good! But in terms of the pauses, it just makes you really appreciate how beautiful the song is and also makes you appreciate — I love acapella music and I always have, but it really makes you appreciate the human voice, especially in the absence of musical instruments.

Konstantin Samoilov: If you — have you met any other people that love this song as much as you do?

Natalie Taylor: No, I haven't. Okay. I'm sure they exist though.

Konstantin Samoilov: I'm sure there's a lot of them, yeah. How do you think that conversation could go with, you know, if you're in a room with, like, two or three other people that love that song and you're sort of re-listening to the favorite parts and just enjoying it?

Natalie Taylor: Well, if it's two or three other people in the room, I would bet that at least one of them was a former choir kid. I feel like that's a good bet. Yeah, I don't really know how the conversation would go, but — this song is pretty heavy, emotionally, at least like for me, I feel a lot of things when I'm listening to it, so I feel like we would have a lot to discuss. I can’t… yeah.

Konstantin Samoilov: Is there any geographical connection you have, like, when you listen to it when you're living in Tbilisi and when you listen to it when you're in California, is the experience different? Is one closer than the other?

Natalie Taylor: Oh wow. No, I wouldn't say it's different. I feel everything I feel with this song just as strongly, regardless of where I am.

Konstantin Samoilov: Off the top of your head, would you be able to name a song that's like a complete opposite of “My Heart With You”, that you just love also?

Natalie Taylor: Yeah, probably anything by Earth, which is a doom metal band. So I can't really name a song off the top of my head, but it's quite the opposite. Have a listen to Earth if you haven't already, you'll see.

Konstantin Samoilov: Okay Natalie, thank you very much.

Natalie Taylor: Thank you, Konstantin. This was a pleasure.

P.S. from Natalie: Really loved our chat! Thanks for taking the time. Now I’m thinking about all of the songs I love and why. I’ve been obsessed with this one for over a decade and it’s prolly the closest to the opposite of “My Heart With You” that I can think of (although Serj Tankian’s vocals are incredible!!):

I wish I had thought to say other things about the song (the enunciation of the Ks!!), but it’ll do :)