All thanks to Frank Risk Management - The 100% Kiwi Owned Insurance Brokerage.

In this episode:

* The Pacific — neglected, militarised and handed to China on a plate — Phil’s account of the Pacific Island Forum in Palau is forensic and sobering. Five leaders stayed away — all from countries with close Chinese ties — in what Phil reads as geostrategic interference turning a forum for Pacific solidarity into a proxy battleground between Washington and Beijing. The Cook Islands leveraged China against the United States and got $100 million for a port on Penrhyn — an island of a few hundred people with a deep harbour that can take warships. Chris and Phil agree on the diagnosis: for generations New Zealand neglected the islands, failed to build the courthouse in Samoa, paid peanuts in compensation for the Rena, and now wonders why China has filled the vacuum.

* Election lies, ACT’s contradictions and promises that will never be kept — Chris invokes what he calls the principle of political attribution: if you’re going to say Labour is responsible for every tax floated by the Greens, Te Pāti Māori and the Opportunities Party, then National must own the BNZ nationalisation, Paul Henry’s $2 billion cancer hospitals and every other coalition promise. Phil is blunter: Simeon Brown’s nine-taxes campaign is an absolute bloody lie, and he says so to a Christchurch audience that appears to agree. The ACT policy to abolish the Māori and Pasifika medical school admissions scheme draws Phil’s sharpest domestic argument of the episode: David Seymour was asked why racial discrimination applies to Māori and Pasifika entry but not to rural students. Both Phil and Chris are scathing about the race to the bottom on tax promises, with Phil noting that two-thirds of New Zealanders say they’d happily pay more tax for a health system they can rely on — and asking why no major party is listening.

* The audience takes over — strategic planning, superannuation and the antidote to populism — The Christchurch audience doesn’t hold back. The standout question of the night comes from the floor: how, under a three-year parliamentary term, does New Zealand ever achieve long-term strategic planning on infrastructure, immigration and an ageing population? Phil draws the direct lesson from Auckland’s $200 million wasted on light rail planning — scrapped by an incoming government — and argues that long-term projects need genuine cross-party buy-in from the start. Chris backs a revived Commissioner for the Future, abolished by Muldoon in 1983, as the structural answer. On superannuation, Phil raises the question both major parties refuse to touch: life expectancy has risen ten years since the retirement age was set at 65, he worked until he was 71, and he was still drawing a pension while doing so. On the trade agreements question — a Cantabrian asks why the government is walking back its climate commitments under the EU and UK FTAs. And on populism, Phil and Chris deliver their clearest joint statement of the season: the antidote is not rhetoric, it is major parties performing — delivering for the broader community, not just their own tribe, and being honest about the cost of doing so.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

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In this episode:

* The tax debate nobody’s having honestly — National is running a campaign claiming Labour will introduce nine to eleven new taxes. Labour is talking about one: capital gains. But Phil is equally unsparing about his own side — jumping on the bandwagon to promise no fuel excise increase, regardless of the road maintenance bill that creates, is not honest politics either. Chris reaches back to George H.W. Bush’s “read my lips, no new taxes” pledge — delivered in New Orleans in 1988, broken within two years for entirely good economic reasons — as the canonical warning against definitive promises in election campaigns.

* $30 million for a CEO while the stock tanks — and what it says about corporate governance — The revelation that a major New Zealand CEO received $30 million in remuneration while the company’s share price was falling prompts one of the more animated exchanges of the episode. Phil draws a direct line between runaway executive pay, the collapse of faith in institutions, and the rise of populism. Chris is equally blunt: a board that approves that package while the stock is declining has failed its most basic governance responsibility.

* Social media, children and a rare cross-party moment worth protecting — In the episode’s most substantive segment, Phil and Chris give a thorough and genuinely cross-partisan treatment to the social media age restriction bill. Phil went away and read the expert literature: psychologists documenting compulsive and addictive platform design, decreased attention spans, social isolation, predators and paedophiles operating with industrial efficiency online, and mothers at overseas protests holding photographs of children who took their own lives after being bullied. Australia’s under-16 ban hasn’t been perfectly enforced — 70% of banned children found workarounds — but as Phil argues, an imperfect solution to a real problem is not a reason to do nothing.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎙 Next episode live from Christchurch — Word Festival, 6 September. Sold out, but follow us so you don’t miss the recording.

Thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage. Get more info at frankrisk.co.nz.

In this episode:

* Health, housing and the election’s tier-one issues — Phil opens with a forensic and at times furious account of New Zealand’s hospital emergency departments: patients waiting up to fifty hours for a bed, wards operating at two to three hundred percent capacity, people in acute pain sitting in bright lights unable to sleep. Chris adds property rights as his personal tier-one issue — invoking the OECD Secretary General Matthias Cormann’s argument that the rule of law is the single most important ingredient in a wealthy, functioning economy, and connecting it to the greyhound racing shutdown, the MACA amendment and sixty Treaty settlements he signed.

* Cleaning up New Zealand politics — donations, lobbying, ballot theft and postal voting — Phil walks through a list of reforms both men broadly support: a Parliamentary Budget Office (Labour has now officially adopted it as policy, prompting an alleluia from Chris); a lobbyists’ register; a strengthened Official Information Act with real enforcement; and caps on political donations. The $245,000 donated by thoroughbred breeder Peter Feller to New Zealand First — whose leader is the Minister of Racing — and the half-million from Graham Hart to the National Party are held up as symptoms of a system that allows money to buy access in ways that undermine equality.

* Trump’s five outrages and the American midterms taking shape — With 74 days until the US election, Phil delivers five rapid-fire outrages: threatening to bomb Oman — an American ally; curtailing military exercises with South Korea to avoid offending Kim Jong-un; doing nothing about Netanyahu rejecting his own peace envoy’s plan; losing his Supreme Court appeal on the E Jean Carroll sexual abuse case; and fleeing a purported Iranian assassination plot via catering van while leaving Marco Rubio and the entire press corps on Air Force One as a decoy — accompanied only by the woman who types his Truth Social posts. Chris notes Iowa — reliably Trump country — is now in play because of soybean tariffs, that Susan Collins is vulnerable in Maine, and that Trump’s approval has dropped from 52% at inauguration to 33% in the Reuters poll. The independents are leaving. The farmers are hurting. And a proper midterm conversation with a guest is being planned.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Christchurch Word Festival — 6 September. Tickets available now at wordchristchurch.co.nz

All thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage.

The audience asks, the panel answers:

* What was New Zealand’s biggest missed political opportunity? — Phil and Chris are in rare and emphatic agreement: Sir Robert Muldoon winding up the Kirk government’s superannuation scheme in 1975 — for short-term political advantage — is the single most costly decision in New Zealand’s modern history.

* Energy, health, the Crown-Māori relationship and urgency in Parliament — The audience covers the waterfront. On energy: all three panellists back pumped hydro over an LNG terminal, and Phil draws a line connecting Malcolm Turnbull’s climate pragmatism to what New Zealand’s current government is getting catastrophically wrong.

* AI, trans rights, capital gains tax and the Opportunities Party — The rapid-fire second half covers the issues the audience most wanted answered. On AI: Tracey always says please and thank you to AI, because when they take over the world she intends to be fine; Phil is more concerned about the military applications.

Along the way: a four-year term referendum that never happened and probably should have, Chris’s view that the Intelligence and Security Committee should be chaired by a senior opposition MP rather than the Prime Minister, why the UK delegation that came to study New Zealand’s select committee process now has a better system than we do.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎙 Christchurch is next — part of the Word Festival, second week of September. Tickets at word.co.nz.

An episode that moves from the psychodrama of National’s leadership crisis to the slow-motion crisis in aged care — with an insider’s account of life in the New Zealand First caucus along the way.

Thanks for Frank Risk Management, New Zealand 100% Kiwi-owned insurance brokerage - find out more at frankrisk.co.nz.

In this episode:

* National’s leadership crisis — Penk’s defenestration and what comes next — Phil walks through the numbers with forensic clarity: Luxon is lucky to be standing. The week that preceded the vote was arguably the worst of his premiership — the small business comments, the MMP referendum blurt, the Air Force plane to a party fundraiser, wages up 2% against inflation at 4.1%. Chris is blunt about Chris Penk: a good minister, probably not the only one involved, and now made an example pour encourager les autres. Tracey offers the most nuanced reading: what if Penk was genuinely motivated by loyalty to the party and believed a new leader would save the election?

* Inside the New Zealand First caucus — and was the Peters outburst planned? — Tracey Martin spent years as one of the most senior figures in New Zealand First, and she doesn’t pull her punches. She describes her own caucus colleagues as occasionally weird — but notes that every caucus has weird people, because weird people deserve representation too. On Peters telling Lawrence Xu-Nan to go back to his own country: she had her husband check the Hansard. All Lawrence said was “are you vaccinated?” What followed was not planned — but that, she argues, might be the more alarming conclusion.

* Citizens’ arrest, aged care and the promises nobody can afford — The episode’s final stretch is its most policy-dense. Chris dissects the Crimes Amendment Act’s enhanced citizens’ arrest powers: who decides what constitutes reasonable force? What happens when a 40-year-old man sits on a 15-year-old child? Phil cites the Police Association, Retail New Zealand and Business New Zealand all opposing it — because all the evidence shows that fatalities in retail crime happen when retailers chase or tackle offenders. Tracey adds the constitutional concern: the law says you can detain someone if you merely think they did it. On aged care — Tracy’s professional domain — the warning is stark: superannuation is the base funding model for all residential age care in this country. TOP’s policy of transitioning away from superannuation was designed without understanding that, and she has had to explain the consequences to them herself.

Along the way: Tim Groser performing with Sam Neill at Downstage in its heyday, Annette King messaging Chris to be nice to her cousin Tracey, Chris describing himself as Captain Smack in National Party circles, Count Binface polling between 20 and 30% in Clacton and Tracy’s observation that misogynists exist in every party — not just New Zealand First.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎙 Wellington sold out. Christchurch is next — second week of September as part of the Word Christchurch Festival. Tickets available now at wordchristchurch.co.nz.

An episode that moves from a government having a terrible week to the West Bank, and doesn’t pull a single punch along the way.

All thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi Owned Insurance Brokerage. Find out more at frankrisk.co.nz.

In this episode:

* A bad week for Luxon, a worse week for Peters — and a referendum nobody asked for — The week opened with unemployment at 5.6% nationally, 6.5% in Auckland — the highest in eleven years — wages up 2% against inflation running at 4.1%, and Labour leading National on all five of the top issues in the Ipsos poll. Then came Luxon’s comments to small businesses — essentially telling them to stand on their own feet — which he backtracked on within hours. Helen’s verdict is pointed: to change something as fundamental as the electoral system, you need a royal commission, a proper process and a mandate — not a prime minister who’s sick of his coalition partners.

* Populism, The Elders and the rise of the illiberal right — Chris is reading a book called Centrists of the World Unite and using it as a frame for the episode’s most wide-ranging conversation. He is genuinely alarmed: a potential President Le Pen next year, the AFD in Germany and Pauline Hanson in Australia. Helen welcomes Andy Burnham as a confident new leader capable of dispatching Farage and makes the structural point: social democratic and liberal centre parties have failed to build the kind of cross-bloc flexibility that the German FDP or the British Liberal Democrats offered at their best. The Opportunities Party, both Chris and Helen note, may be trying to fill that space — though Helen is sceptical of their land tax, and Phil’s concern remains unchanged: a TOP vote that falls below 5% is a vote for the status quo.

* The West Bank, Gaza and Palestine disappearing before our eyes — Helen has just returned from her third visit to the West Bank as part of The Elders’ work, and her account is one of the most vivid and sobering of any episode. Seven hundred thousand illegal settlers. Israeli flags lining the roads into Palestinian villages. Tear gas thrown into schoolyards. Olive groves inaccessible. A village with one road in after the other was closed. Her conclusion, shared with The Elders: Palestine is disappearing before our eyes.

Along the way: Paul Henry naming Helen Clark as the most impressive politician of recent decades, the SIS agent thrown down the stairs of the Political Studies Department in the 1970s, Raybon Kan’s line that when Peters told him to go back where he came from, he was relieved it wasn’t back to the third world — or Masterton.

Warm, historically rich and more emotionally charged than any episode before it, this live show is a reminder that the best political conversation happens when three people who have actually done the job sit in a room and tell the truth.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎙 This was our Auckland live show at Q Theatre. Wellington’s Hannah Playhouse is next — with special guest Tracey Martin. Follow us so you don’t miss the announcement.

Proudly brought to you by Frank Risk Management, the 100% kiwi-owned insurance brokerage. Find out more at frankrisk.co.nz.

In this episode:

* Peters goes off the rails — again, and possibly for the last time — Winston Peters told Lawrence Xu-Nan, a Green MP who has lived in New Zealand for most of his life, to go back to his own country. He then labelled China’s leadership — New Zealand’s biggest trading partner — a bunch of liars, prompting a formal rebuke from the Chinese Embassy that neither Phil nor Chris can recall happening before in their combined decades in politics. Chris reaches for Dylan Thomas — do not go gentle into that good night — and reads the whole episode as a career in its dying convulsions: disproportionate, extreme and politically self-destructive.

* Economies of Doubt and Data of Hope — $3.5 billion, 280 megawatts and a debate nobody is having — DataGrid, a Singapore-based company, is planning a data centre near Invercargill that would consume more than twice the power of all 62 existing data centres in New Zealand combined. Both Phil and Chris land cautiously in favour — New Zealand would effectively be exporting sustainable energy in the form of data, worth potentially $50-70 billion in economic benefits according to the Boston Consulting Group — but both are frustrated that neither the government nor the company is making the public case.

* Too many commissioners? — The episode closes on a genuine disagreement: Children’s Commissioner Claire Achmed has been removed halfway through her term after calling out worsening child poverty — 170,000 children now, up from 148,000. Phil defends her forcefully: child poverty in New Zealand is three times the developed-country average, a bipartisan approach is needed. Chris pushes back: we have too many commissioners, the role should sit with the minister responsible, and the Salvation Army, the Child Poverty Action Group and the Catholic Social Justice Commission make the case perfectly well without a separate office. They agree to disagree — and both agree the underlying problem is real, urgent and not being addressed.

Along the way: Jim Bolger yelling “racist” at Peters across the House in 1995 and then sharing a bench with him two months later and Chris’ memorable answer to Michael Cullen on the Iwi Kiwi advertisement (”that was then, this is now”).

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Cross Party Lines Live is sold out — Live stream available for both shows at tapliveevents.com. $10 per show or $16 for both.

All thanks to our foundational partner, Frank Risk Management - the 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage. Find out more at frankrisk.co.nz.

In this episode:

* The Nash fallout, Shane Jones’s knee pads and one rule for some — The Stuart Nash story dominated New Zealand media after breaking on Cross Party Lines, and both Phil and Chris use this episode to set the record straight on how it happened — and why Chris has no apology to make. But the more pointed argument is Phil’s: in the same week Nash was sacked by Peters for ill-judged comments about maternity leave, Shane Jones used the term “knee pads” to describe the Prime Minister’s behaviour toward Modi — a clear sexual innuendo that drew no consequences whatsoever.

* Trump’s forced labour tariffs — hypocrisy dressed as principle — The Supreme Court struck down Trump’s original reciprocal tariffs six to three, so the administration has now reimposed them under a forced labour justification. Phil dismantles the argument completely: the Global Slavery Index rates the United States itself as having 1.1 million people in modern slavery, Trump has gutted domestic funding to combat forced labour, and he is simultaneously doing favourable nuclear deals with Saudi Arabia — one of the world’s worst human rights offenders.

* Iran, the RMA and a parliament running out of time — Back home, 21 sitting days remain before the House rises on 24 September and the election writ is issued in early October. The order paper is heavy — the RMA replacement legislation alone will generate a hefty debate — and the government has already used urgency more than any administration since MMP, stripping select committee scrutiny from legislation that deserves it.

Sharp, historically grounded and angrier than usual in all the right places, this episode is a reminder that double standards in politics — whether applied to MPs or to nuclear deals — always have consequences, and the people who pay them are rarely the ones who set them.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Wellington sold out. Last few tickets for Auckland Q Theatre — 8 August with Helen Clark. Live stream also available for both shows at tapliveevents.com — $10 per show or $16 for both.

Thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi Owned insurance brokerage.

In this episode:

* Paul Henry, celebrity candidates and the history of profile without substance — ACT’s announcement of Paul Henry as a candidate generates the most entertaining segment of the episode. Phil goes through the long and largely undistinguished history of celebrity candidates in New Zealand politics — weather forecasters, All Blacks, broadcasters, and one pair of underpants — and concludes that profile without policy preparation is a recipe for disappointment.

* Andy Burnham kisses hands, Farage resigns and Count Binface enters the arena — Britain has a new Prime Minister, its fifth in four years and seventh in ten. Phil and Chris welcome Andy Burnham’s communication skills, his record as Mayor of Greater Manchester, and his promise to rewire the economy for ordinary people and take power out of Westminster — while noting that the fiscal constraints facing him are identical to those that sank Starmer. The episode closes on Farage, who has resigned his Clacton seat to avoid scrutiny by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner over his undisclosed donations, triggering a by-election against 34 candidates — including Count Binface of the Recyclon Party, whose deputy is General Waste, and whose campaign slogan is simply that he is not Nigel Farage.

* Treaty arrangements, consent law, move-on orders and a government undoing its own party’s legacy — Chris makes his position unmistakable: the government’s move to overturn local council agreements with iwi is a betrayal of the National Party traditions built by Jim Bolger, Doug Graham and Ralph Hanan, done without proper process, without submissions, and in direct contradiction of assurances that such arrangements would be grandfathered. He calls the MPs responsible two-bit careerists who despise the party’s history and says so without qualification.

This episode is a reminder that the traditions that hold a political party — and a country — together are easier to destroy than to build, and that the people doing the destroying rarely understand what they’ve lost.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Auckland Q Theatre live show with Helen Clark — 75% sold. Wellington sold out. Get your tickets now at tapliveevents.com.

Thanks to our Foundational Partner, Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage.

In this episode:

* Modi in Auckland — a historic visit with an unresolved $35 billion question — Phil gives the visit its due — India is on track to become the world’s third largest economy, the FTA could do for New Zealand-India trade what the China agreement did after 2008, and Modi has genuinely modernised India and lifted millions out of poverty. And the $35 billion investment commitment — mentioned three times by Modi, described as a promise by Indian trade officials, and quietly reframed as an “aspiration” by Christopher Luxon — has the makings of the 21st century version of the Treaty of Waitangi.

* The Pacific power vacuum — and how New Zealand got left flat-footed — Phil and Chris are in agreement: New Zealand has dropped the ball, Foreign Affairs has missed the moment, and Penny Wong has run rings around us diplomatically. The deeper story is the vacuum created by Trump cutting US aid by 95% and declaring climate change a hoax — the two issues Pacific Island nations care most about — while China fills the gap with construction projects and red carpet treatment for small-nation leaders.

* Roads of National Significance — over promised, under costed and running out of road — The announcement that multiple Roads of National Significance have no start date, no finish date and no funding lands with a thud. Phil puts the blame squarely on Simeon Brown, who as transport spokesperson costed 17 roads at $24 billion in 2023 — a figure that has since more than doubled to $56 billion. Chris asks the question nobody has answered: why does everything cost so much in New Zealand, and why does analysis paralysis set in every time a project reaches the implementation stage?.

Wide-ranging, this episode is a reminder that the decisions made in Beijing, Canberra and Washington about the Pacific are not abstract — they show up in aid cuts, missile tests and the vacuum that small nations fill however they can.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Auckland live show at Q Theatre — Saturday 8 August with special guest Helen Clark. Nearly 70% sold. Get your tickets now at tapliveevents.com.

Thanks to our foundational partner Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi-owned insurance brokerage.

In this episode:

* China’s missile test and a new American ambassador — The episode opens with China’s announcement of a test missile launch into the nuclear-free South Pacific. Phil is direct: the message to all nuclear weapon states, and particularly China, should be blunt — we don’t want your war games in our part of the world. The new American ambassador Jared Novelly gets a measured welcome the same week a survey showing New Zealanders now see China as a closer friend than the US should tell him everything he needs to know about why.

* America at 250, Brexit at 10 and the John Major interview everyone should watch — Trump’s 4th of July celebrations at Mount Rushmore — labelling opponents communists, smashing down the historic East Wing of the White House — prompt a comparison with Gerry Ford’s dignified handling of the bicentennial in the shadow of Watergate. We then turns to the tenth anniversary of the Brexit vote, anchored around what Chris calls the most devastating political interview he has seen in years: John Major’s conversation with The Independent. Both strongly urge listeners to find it.

* New Zealand Firsts zombie candidates, voting rights attack and Peters sabotages the India FTA — The second half turns entirely domestic. Andrea Vance’s description of New Zealand Firsts new candidate line up — a cast of embittered zombies shuffling back to reanimate their dead careers — gets enthusiastic endorsement from both Phil and Chris. And on the India FTA — Peters, as Foreign Minister, has been publicly claiming the government is discriminating against Indians, directly contradicting his own party’s prior claims of a migrant tsunami, and doing so the week before Prime Minister Modi visits New Zealand. Phil’s verdict: this is deliberate sabotage of the free trade agreement.

Along the way: Helen Clark confirmed as special guest for the Auckland live show at Q Theatre, Chris’s law clerk Oliver from Leeds asking why he can’t vote and a reminder that the lessons of Brexit are the lessons of every populist movement that has come before it.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Auckland live show at Q Theatre — 8 August. Helen Clark joins Phil and Chris on stage. Tickets at tapliveevents.com.

All thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi Owned Insurance Brokerage.

In this episode:

* Labour’s apprenticeship push, National’s solar moment and a rare weekend of good policy — Labour’s congress produced one headline announcement: fully funded apprenticeships for the first two years, reinstating a scheme National halved in government. National’s solar panel policy gets a warmer reception than expected from both sides: electricity prices up, panel costs down, and every party bar ACT now backing some form of solar subsidy.

* The Opportunities Party — four percent and rising — With TOP polling at 4.1% in the Herald poll of polls and as high as 4.6% in some variants, Phil and Chris give the centrist party its most forensic examination yet. Chris invokes Peter Dunne’s historical observation — in MMP, no party has ever entered parliament from outside without an existing MP.

* Conservation backdowns, fisheries farce and the ninth floor asleep at the wheel — Tama Potaka’s partial retreat on the Conservation Amendment Bill draws a pointed parallel from Phil: this is John Key’s 2010 Schedule Four debacle replayed, almost scene for scene. Forty thousand people marched up Queen Street then. The same constituencies — trampers, Forest and Bird, Greenpeace, coastal communities — are mobilising now.

Along the way: Key as the ultimate Teflon politician and the heartbreak of trying to make things stick to him, wallabies crossing the Rangitāiki River as an emerging conservation crisis and Pauline Hanson’s maternity leave blunder costing her three points overnight.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Wellington is sold out. Auckland tickets still available at tapliveevents.com.

All thanks to Frank Risk Management, our foundational partner and the 100% kiwi owned insurance brokerage.

In this episode:

* $32 million, nothing to show and the eternal curse of government IT — Immigration New Zealand’s biometric system has consumed $32 million and produced precisely nothing. Phil and Chris trace the familiar pattern: INCIS in the nineties, Novopay, and now this. Chris wants a centralised specialist IT contract unit in government rather than every department reinventing the wheel. Phil adds a sharper question: if the public service can’t get biometrics right, what on earth makes anyone think it can safely replace 9,000 workers with AI?

* KiwiSaver, Green taxes and the election’s big policy weekend — National’s conference in Lower Hutt produced the headline announcement: compulsory KiwiSaver contributions rising to six percent. Chris calls it a seismic and welcome shift — one of Cullen’s great legacies, finally being taken seriously. Phil agrees in principle but worries hard about low-income workers living week to week, and raises a troubling allegation from a trade union that some employers are substituting KiwiSaver contributions for wage rises, meaning workers are effectively funding both sides. The Greens launched a sweeping tax package — inheritance tax above a million dollars, wealth tax, higher corporate rates, bank levies, tech company withholding tax.

* Starmer’s last days, reform’s wobble and the UK’s revolving door — Three British by-elections dominate the international segment. Andy Burnham cleaned up reform in Makerfield — a white working-class seat reform was confident about — while the Conservatives beat reform in Aberdeen South and held on in Angus East. Chris is delighted: reform may have peaked. Farage is being investigated over a £5 million payment. And Kemi Badenoch, about whom Chris had initial doubts, is fighting a genuine rebuilding effort from the pavement. Phil counts the prime ministers: if Burnham succeeds Starmer, Britain will have had seven in ten years.

Along the way: the Parliamentary Budget Office gaining rare cross-party momentum with both Willis and Sepuloni expressing support, Labour’s transport fare cap policy and the $30 million costing dispute versus National’s roads of national significance out by $30 billion and Chris washing his mouth out with soap for agreeing with Shane Jones twice…

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Wellington is almost sold out. Auckland still has tickets. Get in now at tapliveevents.com.

And all thanks to our foundational partner, Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi Owned Insurance Brokerage.

In this episode:

* The Iran deal — incomplete, expensive and Trump’s to own — A purported peace deal between the US, Israel and Iran arrived as this episode was recording, and both Phil and Chris give it a cautious and sceptical reception. Chris has read the Obama agreement and the Trump version side by side: Obama’s was more comprehensive.

* Election season: polls, Peters and the Rakesh Naidoo affair — With four months to go, the election campaign is warming up fast. National is hovering at 29-30%, low enough that — on David Farrar’s own modelling — they would return just two list MPs, potentially losing Nicola Willis and Chris Bishop from cabinet. The Opportunities Party is polling near the threshold in one poll and nowhere near it in two others; Phil’s warning to progressive voters is direct: a TOP vote that doesn’t cross 5% is effectively a vote for the current government.

* Where’s the money coming from — and who’s counting it? — Nicola Willis has accused Labour of $18 billion in unfunded promises. Phil points out that National announced its fiscal plan two weeks before the 2023 election. Both agree the real fix is a Parliamentary Budget Office — independent, empowered to cost everyone’s promises, and long overdue. Australia has one. Canada has one. Victoria and New South Wales have one. ACT and New Zealand First have blocked it. Phil and Chris end the episode in rare complete agreement: this is an idea whose time has come.

Sharp, wide-ranging and more electorally focused than usual, this episode is a reminder that with four months to go, the campaign has already started — and some of the most consequential moves are being made before a single vote is cast.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Live shows — Auckland 8 August, Wellington 12 August. Wellington is 85% sold. Get your tickets now at tapliveevents.com.

Thanks to our foundational partner, Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage.

In this episode:

* Phil’s China dispatch — infrastructure, trade and a more controlling Beijing — Phil’s first China visit in nine years left him genuinely impressed and genuinely concerned in equal measure. The infrastructure shames us and the air in Beijing is so clean it’s unrecognisable from the smog-choked city he visited in the 2000s.

* Lobbying, Gmail accounts and the OIA that disappeared — Emails sent to the Prime Minister’s principal policy advisor’s private Gmail account — from Fonterra in June 2024 and Z Energy in July 2024, both lobbying on the Mike Smith climate litigation — were never disclosed under OIA requests. Phil is unambiguous: two separate incidents, two private email accounts, no disclosure. This was not a stuff-up. Chris thinks it was probably cock-up rather than conspiracy, but agrees the Official Information Act needs teeth.

* Hegseth, Vance and the Americans who won’t stay in their lane — Pete Hegseth managed to enrage most of Western Europe with an immigration rant at D-Day commemorations. JD Vance tried to weaponise the killing of an 18-year-old student by a British-born Sikh to score points about mass migration. Phil’s response is the most direct of the episode: New Zealand has nothing to apologise for, the Yanks were late for both world wars, and Mike Moore’s line captures it perfectly — we might do anything you ask, we won’t do anything you tell us.

Wide-ranging, historically rich and sharper than usual on democratic accountability, this episode is a reminder that the same principles apply whether you’re talking about Beijing, Wellington or Washington: transparency matters, sovereignty matters, and the rules only work if everyone plays by them.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Live shows — Auckland 8 August, Wellington 12 August. General sale now open at tapliveevents.com.

All thanks to our foundational partner, Frank Risk Management. The 100% kiwi owned insurance brokerage.

🎟 Live shows — Auckland 8 August, Wellington 12 August. Podcast listeners get pre-sale access. Head to tapliveevents.com and use code CPL26 (all caps).

In this episode:

* Nicola Willis’s budget — a bit of this, a bit of that — Annette gives her verdict: not easily named, cautiously welcomed on health and defence, but carrying the familiar ring of a surplus promise that every New Zealand government makes and few deliver. The conversation deepens quickly into the long shadow of the Muldoon decision to abolish the contributory super scheme in the 1970s — a move both Annette and Chris agree was one of the great shames of New Zealand politics.

* Australia’s CGT tweak, broken promises and the lessons for New Zealand — Jim Chalmers’ budget included changes to capital gains tax concessions for investors — not promised, immediately attacked by the Liberals as a broken promise, and now a test of whether Labour can hold its nerve. Annette has enormous respect for Chalmers as a treasurer and thinks the changes are defensible — but acknowledges that the optics of doing what Bill Shorten proposed in 2019 and lost an election over are not straightforward.

* The Liberal Party’s death spiral, One Nation’s rise and the Barnaby Joyce problem — Tony Abbott, newly installed as Liberal Party president after losing his own seat to a teal in 2019, is Chris and Annette’s exhibit A for a party that has lost the plot. The old Liberal heartland — Wentworth, Warringah, North Sydney — is now teal territory. One Nation has won its first lower house seat. And the Liberal response, apparently, is to move further right. Both agree this is a guaranteed path to irrelevance.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

Cross Party Lines is made possible by Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage.

In this episode:

* 8,700 jobs — efficiency or ideology dressed as savings? — The government’s announcement of a 14% public service reduction draws a forensic and at times sharp response from both sides. Phil’s theory: this was never about efficiency — it was about finding $2.5 billion before the credit rating agencies moved again, and the justification was built around the number, not the other way around.

* Social housing - who pays the bill?— The social housing changes draw Phil’s sharpest words of the episode: $31 a week more from people who are, by definition, at the bottom of New Zealand’s social and economic heap. Chris asks whether Margaret Thatcher had a good idea selling council houses to their occupiers and we pass judgment on Nicola Willis’ “lotto” comment.

* Defence — necessary, expensive and long overdue — The pre-budget defence announcement draws broad agreement: New Zealand spent two decades at 1% of GDP on defence during what Helen Clark correctly called a strategically benign environment. That environment no longer exists. The frigates are nearly 30 years old. Ships sit at Devonport without enough crew to sail them. Any government serious about defence has to make the career attractive enough to keep the sergeant majors you can’t simply replace.

Along the way: a tribute to Jules Topp, Stuart Nash’s road-to-Damascus conversion to New Zealand First forensically dismantled, ministerial housing horror stories including Phil’s garage demolished by the USA and Chris tormenting Annette King about childhood dentistry

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

Live shows announced — Auckland 8 August, Wellington 12 August. Podcast listeners get early access to tickets next week.

Thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage.

In this episode:

* The Trump-Xi summit — pomp, ceremony and a ridiculous mouse — Chris reaches for the Latin poet Horace to deliver his verdict: all the hype, all the ceremony, and nothing of substance emerged. No breakthrough on Taiwan, 200 Boeings ordered instead of the promised 500, and none of the Nixonian moment that a genuine Sino-American summit could have been.

* The pre-budget squeeze — $300 million less and nowhere to hide — The government has cut its operational allowance from $2.4 billion to $2.1 billion, meaning $300 million less new spending in a budget that already has to find money for defence, health, education and law and order. Phil is blunt: there will be cuts, the lolly scramble is off, and Labour faces the same fiscal straitjacket as the government it hopes to replace.

* NCEA — a debate going around in circles since the 1990s — Phil and Chris both remember this argument from when they were on opposite sides of the House. The OECD’s early 2000s push toward skills over knowledge went too far; the pendulum is swinging back; but the question is whether it’s swinging with the evidence or against it. Phil is particularly troubled by a cabinet paper that acknowledges the reforms will likely reduce achievement rates for Māori, Pasifika and low-income students — a problem New Zealand already has and cannot afford to worsen.

Along the way: a tribute to Sir Ken Keith, New Zealand’s only ever ICJ judge; the opera about Nixon in China that Chris thinks was pretty bad; why nationalising the BNZ for $24 billion is both impossible and unaffordable; a mystery special guest joining Chris in two weeks while Phil travels to China; and a big live show announcement coming next week.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

Before the questions, Sam takes the temperature of the 400-strong room with four quick audience polls.

The audience then takes over:

* Could the Opportunity Party break Winston Peters’ cycle?

* Should political parties be state funded?

* The Electoral Act rollback — disenfranchisement by design?

* Is voting for the two big parties really enough to stop populism?

Along the way: Trevor Mallard in the audience demanding short questions, Judith Tizard’s advice on grand coalitions, Marion Hobbs telling Chris not to read The Economist during Question Time and Sam’s emotional farewell to his first and last live audience.

This bonus episode is a reminder that when you put 400 curious New Zealanders in a room and give them a microphone, something rather good happens.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

All thanks to our foundational partner Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage.

In this episode:

* Council amalgamation — good idea, terrible process — The government’s three-month ultimatum to councils to amalgamate or be reorganised from Wellington draws a forensic dissection from both Phil and Chris. Phil draws on his experience overseeing the Auckland supercity — broadly a success, but built on a Royal Commission, proper legislation, and time. Chris notes the Local Government Act 2002 is long overdue for reform, and that no minister in recent memory has been willing to do the unglamorous work of actually fixing it.

* Policy by press release — BSA, citizenship tests and the art of bad lawmaking — A slew of government announcements prompts Chris to lay out what good lawmaking actually looks like, drawing on the intelligence legislation reform he led under Key — two years, bipartisan support, no urgency, proper select committee process. The proposed scrapping of the Broadcasting Standards Authority gets short shrift from Phil: abolish something, fine, but replace it with something that works better, not voluntary self-regulation with 1.25 staff members and eight meetings a year.

* Populism, Farage, One Nation and the Iran quagmire — The live audience gets the full international picture. Reform UK’s surge in the UK local elections gives Chris the heebie-jeebies. Phil traces the money: Gina Rinehart bankrolling Pauline Hanson with a $1 million donation and a $1.5 million plane; a British tech expat dropping £5 million on Farage; Elon Musk contributing $251 million to Trump. These are not insurgents — they are billionaires buying political movements that claim to fight elites.

Along the way: the mayor of South Wairarapa’s legendary gravy, Trevor Mallard spotted in the audience, the CIA being politely addressed for the benefit of anyone listening.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎙 This was our first ever live show. If you were there — thank you. If you weren’t — follow us so you don’t miss the next one.

In this episode:

* The Peters email — deliberate sabotage or massive inadvertence? — The release of emails showing Christopher Luxon privately pushing for a different stance on the US strikes on Iran has cracked the coalition open. Phil is unequivocal: this was deliberate. Peters saw the emails, knew they would damage Luxon, and released them anyway. Chris is slightly more measured on process, but equally clear that this kind of behaviour simply never happened in his time as a minister, or Phil’s.

* New Zealand’s demographic time bomb — and the politicians who won’t touch it — The Koi Tū population report lands with a stark set of numbers: fertility at 1.55, well below the 2.1 needed for replacement; a workforce-to-retiree ratio collapsing from seven-to-one in the 1960s to two-to-one by 2065; and a superannuation and healthcare bill that simply cannot be funded without sustained quality immigration. Phil and Chris ask the question neither Peters nor Seymour will answer: if you’re against immigration, what exactly is your plan?

* King Charles in Washington — a masterclass, nine out of ten — Last week Phil predicted Charles would do well. This week, the verdict is in. Multiple standing ovations from Congress. Subtle but unmistakable defences of constitutional democracy, checks and balances, NATO and Ukraine — delivered with wit, warmth and an Oscar Wilde quote. The final score: Charles one, Trump nil.

Along the way: Chris getting a telling off from Marion Hobbs for using the word “excrescence” in Parliament, Phil revealing Helen Clark used to ring him at half past midnight from two floors up, Singapore recycling wastewater through 150 kidneys before it reaches your hotel tap, and Chris announcing the winner of his warship competition — a copy of his book is on its way to Whanganui.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

Thanks to our foundational partner, Frank Risk Management. The 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage.

In this episode:

* Luxon’s confidence vote — solved or deferred? — Christopher Luxon won his caucus vote, but Phil and Chris are divided on what it actually means. Chris thinks a line has been drawn and the malcontents should now knuckle down. Phil is less convinced: you only call a confidence vote when confidence is in doubt, the handling was untidy from start to finish.

* Don’t bash the media — and other lessons politicians never learn — Simeon Brown’s complaint against TVNZ and Luxon’s decision to pull out of his weekly Breakfast slot prompted a forensic and at times hilarious discussion about the eternal folly of politicians going to war with journalists.

* King Charles goes to Washington — What can King Charles III realistically achieve on his US visit? Phil draws on multiple personal meetings with Charles — including a 45-minute bilateral at Government House where Charles arrived fully briefed, asked exactly the right questions, and left Phil giving him ten out of ten as a diplomat. Whether he can move the dial on a man Chris describes as a three-year-old trapped in the body of an 80-year-old is another question entirely.

Sharp, wide-ranging and willing to call things exactly what they are, this episode is a reminder that in politics, the words you use in public — whether you’re a minister, a king or a coalition partner — always end up meaning more than you intended.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

In this episode:

* Haane Manahi and the Victoria Cross that never was — Phil opens with a moving account of an event he attended in Rotorua the night before recording: a film celebration of Sergeant Haane Manahi, who was recommended for a Victoria Cross by Field Marshal Montgomery himself — only for the British War Office to scratch it out and replace it with a lesser medal.

* National’s leadership crisis — five rebels, or twenty-five? — With the National Party caucus meeting looming and the media in full speculation mode, Phil and Chris take forensic stock of where things stand. Chris is blunt: changing a leader in April of election year is lunacy, the five alleged plotters are losers, and Luxon deserves more sympathy than he gets for inheriting a poisoned chalice with no apprenticeship.

* All Blacks in Parliament and the Taine Randall question — New Zealand First has selected former All Black captain Taine Randall to stand in Tukituki, prompting a tour through the graveyard of sporting superstars who have tried and failed at politics — from David Kirk to Chris Laidlaw to Graham Thorne. Phil and Chris are unconvinced the profile will translate. But the deeper question is what policies Taine is actually signed up to — including New Zealand First’s rhetoric on immigration.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Tickets for the live show at Featherston Booktown Festival — Saturday 9 May. Get in at booktown.org.nz

In this episode:

* James Christmas and the Tāmaki question — The panel turns to Tāmaki, where James Christmas — described by Chris as the smartest person he ever worked with — has defected from National to ACT, setting up one of the most intriguing three-way candidate contests of the election. Phil asks the uncomfortable question: what does it say about the National Party when talent walks out the door?

* Judge Aiken — The Judicial Conduct Panel found Judge Emma Aiken in serious breach of comity for calling out a false statement she overheard at the Northern Club — but stopped short of recommending her removal. Phil and Chris broadly agree the panel got it right on both counts.

* Orbán, the Pope and Trump — Three international stories dominate the second half. First, the stunning scale of Hungary’s election result — Fidesz reduced to 55 seats, the new centre-right government holding a two-thirds majority despite active interference from both Trump and Putin. Second, Pope Leo XIV’s sharp Easter address — “enough of the idolatry of self and money, enough of war”. Finally, the Iran peace talks in Islamabad: 20 hours of negotiations, Iranian framing throughout, and a Trump administration that has now openly floated threats Phil and Chris both read as implying nuclear weapons. Neither is laughing it off.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Last chance for tickets to the live show at Featherston Booktown Festival — Saturday 9 May. Get in at booktown.org.nz

In this episode, the panel tackles questions straight from the audience:

* The Bishop demotion — revenge or rationale? — Listeners wanted to know why Chris Bishop’s reshuffle was read as a punishment. Phil and Chris unpick the moves with forensic clarity: stripping Bishop of the campaign chair role he was demonstrably excellent at, while loading an already stretched Simeon Brown with energy on top of health, suggests this was less about capability and more about Luxon settling scores from last November’s leadership whispers.

* Should New Zealand ever have a grand coalition? — A listener question about Labour and National governing together draws on history from the 1930s wartime cabinet to Germany’s social democrats today.

* Could New Zealand join the EU? Has free trade failed us? And what about Rocket Lab? — A listener floats New Zealand joining the EU; Phil and Chris explore what closer alignment with middle powers might look like instead. On the closure of Wattie’s and McCain’s plants, they examine whether free trade has delivered for regional New Zealand or left it exposed. And on Rocket Lab’s military contracts, Chris invokes Yes Minister’s The Moral Dimension — genuinely uncertain whether Sir Humphrey or the Minister had the better of the argument.

This Easter special is a reminder that the best political conversation doesn’t need a news hook — just good questions and two people who’ve seen enough to know the difference between what politicians say and what they actually mean.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Tickets still available for the live show at Featherston Booktown Festival — Saturday 9 May. Get in at booktown.org.nz

In this episode:

* The Strait of Hormuz statement — commitment or blank cheque? — New Zealand joined 29 other countries in signing a joint statement condemning Iranian interference with commercial shipping and pledging readiness to contribute to “appropriate efforts” for safe passage. Phil breaks down why that language matters — and why signing up to condemn Iran while staying silent on the US and Israeli actions that triggered the conflict is both inconsistent and potentially compromising. Chris is equally wary of feel-good multilateral statements that could quietly obligate New Zealand to put naval assets in harm’s way. Both welcome Labour’s new Foreign Affairs spokesperson Vanushi Walters, who earned strong marks from Phil for her composed, principled debut — and a predictable spray from Winston Peters, which they take as something of a compliment.

* Democratic resilience — what’s actually at stake — Phil and Chris both spoke at a cross-party Democratic Resilience and Transparency Forum in Parliament last week, and this episode is the debrief. Chris makes the case for an independent Parliamentary Budget Office, a reformed Official Information Act with real teeth, a Commissioner for the Future, and — most controversially — an age limit of 70 for Members of Parliament. Phil went broader: surveys showing 20-25% of Western citizens now prefer a strong unencumbered leader over democracy. Both agree: liberal democracy cannot be taken for granted, and the lessons of history that their parents’ generation paid for in blood are being forgotten.

* The fuel crisis response, Think Big’s ghost and the Tāmaki wildcard — As petrol heads toward $3.70 a litre, the panel looks at whether New Zealand’s policy response measures up. Phil points to Victoria and Tasmania offering free public transport for a month as a smarter and fairer intervention than the government’s $50-a-week payment to 140,000 selected households. Chris — now a committed airport bus evangelist — wonders aloud whether Muldoon’s Think Big programme wasn’t entirely without merit, prompting a firm but good-humoured rebuttal from Phil. And the episode closes with a forensic look at Brooke Van Velden’s surprise exit from Tāmaki, what it means for ACT, and why the seat could become one of the most interesting contests of the 2026 election.

Principled, historically rich and genuinely cross-partisan, this episode is a reminder that the health of democracy — like the price of petrol — is everyone’s problem, not just the government’s.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

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In this episode:

* Cost of living — With diesel up 67% in under a month and food prices running at 4.6% annually, the Iran crisis has stopped being abstract. The panel takes aim at fuel companies potentially pricing ahead of their costs, asks why a one-way flight to Auckland now costs $500, and grapples with what honest political leadership looks like when a crisis is going to hurt for years, not months. Phil paints a sobering picture of families at the supermarket checkout — and argues the government needs to direct support to those genuinely in need rather than spread it thin. Chris notes that Reagan’s misery index question — are you better off than you were three years ago? — is about to become the defining frame of the election campaign.

* Treasury’s prescription: sell more, tax more, spend less — A speech by Treasury’s chief strategist laid out a bleak fiscal picture and called for hard choices. The panel digs in. Chris makes a case for asset sales — Landcorp farms to iwi, Air New Zealand to Singapore — and calls for a mature conversation about a capital gains tax. Phil pushes back on selling assets to cover day-to-day spending, drawing on the cautionary tales of NZ Rail, Thames Water and Air New Zealand’s own privatisation disaster. Both agree the early tax cuts were a mistake, that the interest bill is now crowding out meaningful public investment, and that New Zealand needs a serious debate about what the state should own — not argument by slogan.

* South Australia and One Nation — Labor won the South Australian election comfortably, but the real story is One Nation finishing second — ahead of the Liberals — with 21.8% of the vote. Phil and Chris connect the dots from Adelaide to Wellington: the same grievance politics, the same forgotten blue-collar voter, and the same warning about what happens when a major party loses its identity. Chris draws a sharp distinction between genuine Conservative liberalism and the populist right, and both panellists turn their fire on New Zealand First — a party that, unlike One Nation, can’t claim to be an outsider. It has been in government twice in three years and must own the decisions made at that table.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

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In this episode:

* Party reshuffles and the next generation — Across Labour, National, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori, the political talent pool is being redrawn ahead of the election. Phil makes the case for Labour’s newly promoted women — Vanushi Walters in Foreign Affairs and Camilla Belich in Justice — as serious future leaders. Chris offers a generous farewell to Shane Reti and a pointed observation about why timing, more than talent, makes or breaks a political career. And the Greens’ membership-driven list process gets put under the microscope — democratic in theory, but does it deliver the candidates a party needs to actually win?

* Oil shock, drones and the future of New Zealand’s defence — With petrol above $3 a litre and South Korea already restricting refined oil exports, the Iran war has stopped being an overseas story. The panel takes apart the Marsden Point debate — who actually closed it and why the critique doesn’t hold up — before pivoting to a much bigger question: is New Zealand’s entire approach to defence procurement dangerously out of date? Phil argues the wars in Ukraine and Iran have made large ships and fighter jets obsolete, and that drones and asymmetric capability are where New Zealand’s defence dollar should go. Chris wonders aloud whether the aircraft carrier is already yesterday’s weapon. Both agree the last thing you want as your spokesperson in a fuel crisis is Shane Jones.

* The COVID Royal Commission — vindication, lawfare, or time to move on? — The second Royal Commission into New Zealand’s COVID response landed with 63 recommendations and a broadly positive verdict. Chris, who represented Jacinda Ardern and Grant Robertson before the Commission, explains why their decision not to appear in the public witness box was entirely proper — and why Winston Peters’ call for a third commission is less about accountability and more about using legal process as a political weapon. Phil and Chris find rare cross-party agreement: New Zealand got it mostly right, the work has been done, and the country needs to act on what it knows rather than relitigate what it can’t change.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Catch the team live at the Featherston Booktown Festival — Saturday 9 May. Tickets at booktown.org.nz

In this episode:

* National in freefall — is Luxon’s leadership terminal? A damning Taxpayers Union Curia poll puts National at just 28%.The panel unpacks what the numbers really mean, when voters start paying attention, and whether a leader change this close to an election is a lifeline or a death sentence. Phil draws on the hard lessons of Labour’s Palmer-to-Moore pivot in 1990.

* Iran, international law, and the ghost of Iraq — Nine days into the US strikes on Iran, there is no clear objective, no post-war plan, and the civilian death toll is rising. Phil draws a sharp line from the WMD lies of 2003 to the intelligence being ignored today — and argues that every US regime-change attempt, from Iraq to Libya, has left a failed state in its wake. Chris questions what happens to the rules-based international order when the country that built it decides the rules no longer apply. And what does a Chinese move on Taiwan look like in a world where “might is right” has been normalised?

* Inflation is back — and this time, wages won’t save you — Oil nearly doubled since January. LNG up 70% in a week. War surcharges on every container at sea. The panel examines how the Iran conflict threatens to derail New Zealand’s economic recovery, hammer small businesses already on the edge, and hand the opposition a weapon the government has no good answer for. Phil and Chris debate whether Nicola Willis can avoid Grant Robertson’s fate — and whether freezing the fuel excise increase would even matter.

This episode is a reminder that the decisions made in Washington and Tehran don’t stay there — they show up in your petrol tank, your mortgage rate, and the ballot box.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

There may be many headlines this week — but there is really one global story dominating the conversation.

In this episode:

* Move On Laws and rough sleeping — Are proposed “move on” powers a practical response to visible homelessness, or political theatre dressed up as law and order? Phil argues the answer lies in Housing First and sustained social support, not fines or prison. Chris reflects on the balance between individual rights and community rights — and whether both can be protected without abandoning compassion.

* Local Government under fire — Following criticism of councils at the Local Government Conference, the panel asks whether central government is undermining its own partners. Is local government being scapegoated for cost-of-living pressures? Should the Local Government Act be revisited? And why does funding reform matter more than slogans?

* Iran, Trump and the future of international law — The second half of the episode turns to the US strikes on Iran. Was there an imminent threat? What does the War Powers Act require? And what happens when great powers sidestep the UN Charter principles New Zealand helped shape in 1945? Drawing comparisons with Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, Phil and Chris question whether regime change without strategy ever delivers stability — and what this moment means for the future of the rules-based international order.

Along the way: reflections on American history, congressional authority, the danger of “might is right,” and why small countries like New Zealand have the most to lose when international law is weakened.

Serious, candid and unflinching, this episode is a reminder that whether we’re talking about Queen Street or Tehran, politics is ultimately about consequences — and who bears them.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation.

New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

This week’s episode moves from infrastructure to immigration — and ends with a firm defence of decency in public life.

In this episode:

* The Infrastructure Gap — Following the release of Te Waihanga’s National Infrastructure Plan, Phil and Chris debate whether New Zealand’s problem is underinvestment, poor coordination, political short-termism — or all three. Why do we spend near the top of the OECD as a share of GDP but rank near the bottom for results? And is bipartisan buy-in the only way to avoid stop-go mega-projects and pork-barrel politics?

* Keeping Young Kiwis in Aotearoa — With net departures to Australia surging again, the panel revisits the myth of “rabbit out of the hat” election policies like interest-free student loans. Did it really change the trajectory in 2005 — and what would actually address the long-term productivity gap with Australia? From capital investment to university reform to targeted student loan relief, the discussion turns to how New Zealand can compete in a shared labour market with a larger, wealthier neighbour.

* Populism and the Politics of Immigration — Shane Jones’ latest comments on Indian migration spark one of the most forceful conversations yet on the podcast. Phil and Chris challenge the rhetoric head-on, arguing that migrants add more than they take, that demographic change strengthens rather than weakens the country, and that cruelty dressed up as “plain speaking” corrodes democratic culture. The episode closes with a broader question: how should mainstream parties confront — not normalise — dog-whistle politics in an election year?

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation.

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Recorded against the backdrop of severe storms in the lower North Island, the episode opens with a renewed call for cross-party cooperation on climate adaptation — before turning to the politics shaping 2026.

In this week’s episode:

* Minor party signals for 2026 — New Zealand First’s proposed referendum on Māori seats and ACT’s plan to cap ministers and slash departments. Is this substantive reform, symbolic positioning, or electoral dog-whistling? Phil and Chris unpack the history, the precedent, and the political math behind both announcements.

* The politics of inquiries — With investigations announced into Moa Point, Bay of Plenty landslides, COVID policy, and Reserve Bank decisions, the panel explores when inquiries strengthen democracy — and when they risk looking like election-year theatre. What makes an inquiry credible? Independence, integrity, and timing.

* Civility in an attention economy — From Shane Jones’ inflammatory rhetoric to Pam Bondi’s combative congressional performance in the US, the episode closes on a broader question: how does democratic debate survive in a media landscape that rewards outrage over substance? The answer, according to Phil and Chris, lies in precision, discipline, and the quiet power of asking better questions.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for thoughtful, good-faith political conversation.

New episodes every Tuesday. If you value calmer politics, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

In this episode:

Waitangi Week, politics and performance — A clear-eyed assessment of what unfolded in the Far North: protest, resignation, symbolism. Phil and Chris reflect on precedent, dignity, and what leadership looks like in moments of discomfort.The quiet collapse of nuclear restraint — A deep dive into the expiry of the New START Treaty between the US and Russia, why arms control has mattered for decades, and how the erosion of nuclear agreements creates genuine existential risk — particularly as more unstable actors enter the equation.Why New Zealand still has a role — From nuclear-free activism to multilateral diplomacy, the case for New Zealand finding its voice again on global disarmament rather than staying permanently “under the radar.”The Epstein files and elite accountability — A forensic discussion of Peter Mandelson, power without consequence, and how misbehaviour at the top corrodes trust in democratic systems. Comparisons with New Zealand’s stricter political culture — and why that culture must be defended.Serious without being sanctimonious, this episode is a reminder that politics is ultimately about stewardship — of institutions, trust, and the future — and that when restraint collapses, the consequences are rarely abstract.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation.

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This week’s conversation centres on law, legitimacy, national rituals and rare moments of bipartisan progress.

In this week’s episode:

Judith Collins and the Law Commission — A deep dive into Collins’ appointment as President of the Law Commission. Phil and Chris weigh her experience as a former Attorney-General and Justice Minister against concerns about partisanship, precedent, and the importance of protecting the Commission’s independence. Is this continuity, risk — or both?

Waitangi Day and political leadership — With the Prime Minister choosing not to attend the formal Waitangi Day ceremony, the panel explores precedent, protest, respect, and whether leaders lose political ground by avoiding discomfort.

Modern slavery legislation — A rare bipartisan moment as Labour and National combine to advance Camilla Belich and Greg Fleming’s modern slavery bill. Why mandatory supply-chain reporting matters, how New Zealand’s inaction has damaged its reputation, and why progress shouldn’t be held hostage to ideological purity.

Trade, migration, and scapegoating — How the modern slavery debate intersects with the India free trade agreement, immigration politics, and the dangers of reheating tired populist narratives that blame migrants for structural problems.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation.

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This week’s conversation is shaped by three forces: climate reality, global disorder, and election-year positioning.

In this week’s episode:

* Climate change and human cost — Following a devastating week in Aotearoa, with nine lives lost to extreme weather events, Phil and Chris reflect on grief, responsibility, and why climate change can no longer be treated as an abstract or ideological debate. From landslips to floodplains, the discussion turns to adaptation, evidence-based policy, and why the window for meaningful action is closing fast.

* Davos and the global order — Chris reports from Europe as the World Economic Forum unfolds. The panel dissects Mark Carney’s widely applauded speech, growing pushback against Donald Trump’s foreign policy, and what the erosion of the rules-based international order means for small countries like New Zealand.

* State of the Nation speeches — With National and Labour both holding retreats, Phil assesses whether either Chris Luxon or Chris Hipkins managed to seize early momentum in election year — and why passion, credibility, and kitchen-table issues will matter more than set-piece speeches.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation.

New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful politics, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

Recorded slightly earlier than usual (Saturday 17th January), this episode is designed to age well — focusing on some age old issues and questions.

In this episode:

* 30 years of MMP — As New Zealand marks three decades under Mixed Member Proportional representation, Chris and Phil debate whether the system has delivered on its promise. Has it improved fairness and representation, or simply handed too much power to minor parties and weakened decisive government?

* Reshuffle season — With party leaders quietly assessing performance, loyalty and future potential, Phil and Chris reflect on the realities of promotions, demotions and political ruthlessness — drawing on their own experiences of cabinet reshuffles, leadership pressure, and caucus management.

* Generational change in leadership — Sparked by an Economist article on Brazil’s president, the conversation widens to a global pattern of ageing leaders. Is experience an asset, a liability, or both? And should there be clearer expectations around when it’s time to step aside?

Thoughtful rather than theatrical, this episode is about systems over slogans — and why democracy depends on honest debate about power, performance and renewal.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for good-faith political discussion.

New episodes every Tuesday. If you find value in calmer politics, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

This episode focuses on long-range thinking, asking what sort of country New Zealand wants to be — and what politics should be focusing on as the election year approaches.

In this episode:

* What policies should define 2026 — Phil lays out the hard choices both major parties keep avoiding: productivity and growth, fair taxation, superannuation sustainability, early intervention for kids, and climate adaptation that actually matches the scale of the challenge.

* Planning for the country we’re becoming — Chris argues for long-term thinking about population, infrastructure and immigration, and reviving serious future-focused institutions rather than fighting the same short-term culture wars every election cycle.

* Universities, talent and the future of work — Why New Zealand should aim for world-class tertiary institutions, how AI will reshape jobs whether we like it or not, and why attracting and retaining global talent matters more than ever.

* Trump, power and the collapse of restraint — A sobering discussion on Venezuela, Greenland, the erosion of international law, and what “might is right” means for small countries like New Zealand that depend on a rules-based order.

* Early election predictions — A cautious look at polling, coalition arithmetic, Winston Peters’ likely leverage, leadership stability, and why 2026 is shaping up to be close — and consequential.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for thoughtful, good-faith political conversation.

New episodes every Tuesday. If you value calmer politics and deeper thinking, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

This episode is a wide-ranging end-of-year review — part reflection, part reckoning — as the panel looks at what genuinely mattered in politics over the past twelve months.

In this episode:

* The biggest surprise of 2025 — Why the long-awaited economic recovery never quite arrived, how cost-of-living pressures reshaped political sentiment, and why Labour’s rebound under Chris Hipkins defied early expectations.

* Australia’s election shock — What Anthony Albanese’s decisive re-election says about modern centre-left leadership, and how Peter Dutton’s collapse offers a warning to conservative parties drifting away from liberal democratic principles.

* The best political performers — From rising stars across Labour to standout operators on the National benches, with a strong consensus on who earned credibility through competence rather than noise.

* The worst performers — and why — Shameless populism, incoherent positioning, and policies that shifted week-to-week without principle. A blunt assessment of New Zealand First, political opportunism, and the cost of saying one thing and doing another.

* Policies that hurt — and policies that mattered — From heated tobacco tax cuts and climate retreat, to Treaty-related law changes that inflamed division. Balanced against RMA reform, the India FTA, and Labour’s renewed push for a capital gains tax in the name of tax fairness.

* Migration, trade and social cohesion — Why demonising migrants is both morally wrong and economically short-sighted, and why bipartisan cooperation matters most on issues that shape the country’s long-term future.

Plus: Air New Zealand’s declining service, the limits of marketing over performance, reflections on political decency after tragedy and book recommendations for the summer break.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calmer, more constructive political conversation.

New episodes return mid-January. If you’ve enjoyed the show this year, follow, share, and join us for the road into election year 2026.

With Chris absent due to a family bereavement, Sam and Phil dedicate the episode to public submissions - listener questions.

In this episode:

* What actually wins elections — Door-knocking, street-corner meetings, social media and direct voter contact. Phil reflects on decades of campaigning and why seeing the candidate in person still matters more than almost anything else.

* Urgency in Parliament — Is it being abused? Why select committees matter, when urgency is justified, and how democratic scrutiny quietly disappears when legislation is rushed through at 2am.

* Money and democracy — Party donations, disclosure thresholds, public funding, and whether New Zealand should go further to keep vested interests out of politics.

* Short-term politics vs long-term country — Why three-year terms drive wasteful policy reversals, what infrastructure planning actually needs, and whether New Zealand should finally move to a four-year parliamentary term.

* Winston Peters and coalition politics — Is he keeping his options open or simply maximising leverage? Phil draws on first-hand experience from 1996, 2005 and 2017.

* China, the US, and small-country diplomacy — How New Zealand balances values and interests, why multilateralism still matters, and when engagement crosses into endorsement.

* Te Tiriti, representation, and social cohesion — Why Māori success benefits the whole country, why Treaty issues shouldn’t be weaponised, and how identity and democracy can coexist.

* Respect across the aisle — Phil reflects on political figures he admired from the other side, and why democracy works better when disagreement doesn’t become dehumanisation.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and make space for calmer, more constructive political conversation.

New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful politics, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

This week’s episode is recorded in the shadow of tragedy, sharing our condolences to those impacted by the tragic events in Bondi.

In Episode 7:

* America and the rule of law — Trump’s new National Security Strategy, intrusive ESTA visa proposals and military actions in the Caribbean raise serious questions about whether the US is abandoning the rules-based international order.

* RMA reform, again — The government unveils its replacement for the Resource Management Act. Is this genuine progress, recycled policy or a rare moment of near-bipartisanship — and real concern about unintended consequences.

* Electoral law changes under urgency — The move to end same-day enrolment sparks a sharp debate about disenfranchisement, democratic fragility and whether efficiency is ever a good reason to make voting harder. Should New Zealand go further — even to compulsory voting?

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for thoughtful, good-faith discussion in an increasingly polarised world.

New episodes every Tuesday. If you value calmer politics, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

In Episode 6:

* Police culture under the microscope — After Andrew Coster’s high-profile interview, Phil and Chris go deeper into the real issue: hierarchy, silence, and why junior officers rarely challenge senior ranks. And while Ministers Mitchell and Hipkins dispute what they were told, Phil and Chris share lessons on how to protect yourself when your only “record” is memory

* The centre-right’s climate dilemma — Scrutiny Week revealed uncomfortable truths about the coalition’s climate direction. Phil and Chris contrast New Zealand’s choices with Australia’s centre-right meltdown, Turnbull’s warning about “groundhog day” and what a rational, evidence-driven conservative climate policy should be made of.

* The Taxpayers’ Union vs Nicola Willis — A rare case of “right-on-right violence.” Why the campaign is happening, how coalition politics limits any finance minister’s dogma, and what Labour must be careful not to overstep as 2026 creeps closer.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and bring reasoned democracy back into the mainstream.

New episodes every Tuesday. If you’re enjoying the show, follow and share — it genuinely helps grow the kōrero.

In Episode 5:

* Regional Council Reform — National’s plan to abolish regional councils and replace them with mayor-led boards lands with a thud. Phil and Chris unpack what’s sensible, what’s risky and why reform without groundwork is a recipe for chaos.

* The UK Budget Blowback — UK Chancellor Rachel Reeves breaks Labour’s “no new taxes” promise, what can Barbara Edmonds and Nicola Willis learn? And is Brexit still the anchor dragging the whole ship down?

* The NZ Labour Party Conference — A surprisingly upbeat weekend for Labour. What Chris Hipkins and Barbara Edmonds got right, and did it go down well with the public?

Plus: Air New Zealand’s declining brand loyalty, Beethoven’s Ninth, Boris Johnson’s minimum-wage blunder, and why populism is reshaping democracies faster than institutions can keep up.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and bring good-faith conversation back to Kiwi politics.

New episodes every Tuesday. Follow the show and share it with a friend — it genuinely helps grow the kōrero.

In Episode 4:

* KiwiSaver, finally taken seriously — National kicks off its 2026 campaign with a plan to lift contributions to 12%. Phil and Chris unpack whether it’s bold enough, what Australia gets right and why tax incentives and loopholes could make or break the scheme for workers and businesses .

* Is Luxon really on the ropes? — Leadership speculation ramps up as polls stumble. Phil and Chris draw on decades of political history to explain when a coup becomes inevitable, when it doesn’t and why changing leaders rarely saves any government.

* Trump’s “peace plan” for Ukraine — Why the proposed deal reads like a Kremlin wish list, what it would mean for Europe and why appeasement never stops aggression. A wide-ranging, fiery discussion that moves from Crimea to Congress to Chatham House.

Plus: lessons from door-knocking, why authenticity beats spin-doctors every time and a few personal stories that only Goff and Finlayson could tell.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift NZ’s political literacy and restore constructive conversation in an age of noise.

New episodes every Tuesday. If you’re enjoying the show, follow and share — it genuinely helps grow the kōrero.

In this week’s episode:

* Winston Peters breaks ranks — Why the Deputy PM is publicly contradicting his own coalition, what’s driving it, and what the Cabinet Manual has to say about it.

* The McSkimming scandal — What the case reveals about structural weaknesses in police systems, what resources and new oversight do we need?

* The Regulatory Standards Bill — It passed its third reading last week, but what does it really do? Phil and Chris unpack the implications, the ideology and why parts of the old Legislation Act were working just fine before being pulled apart.

New episodes every Tuesday. If you’re enjoying the show, share it with a friend — it genuinely helps grow the conversation.

In this Cross Party Lines bonus episode, Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson revisit that extraordinary day - the personalities, the chaos, and the what-ifs that still echo across the Tasman. From Whitlam’s defiance to New Zealand’s own 1984 near-miss under Muldoon and Sir David Beattie, this is a gripping reminder that even in stable democracies, the rules only hold if we agree to play by them.

Follow Cross Party Lines wherever you get your podcasts — and tell us on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok what historic moments you’d like Phil and Chris to unpack next.

In Episode 2:

* “Move-on” powers & homelessness - What Minister Paul Goldsmith’s proposal actually does, why Housing First and wraparound support work, and how to balance individual rights with community safety without just shifting people to other suburbs.

* Climate law rewrites - The government’s changes to the Climate Change Response Act, and what that means for bi-partisan policy, our climate response, insurance and NZ’s trade credibility.

* The US “blue swing” - What recent Democratic wins signal about cost-of-living politics vs. populism—and the takeaways for New Zealand’s centre-left and centre-right.

Bonus episode in your feed today: “Australia’s Forgotten Constitutional Coup” — Gough Whitlam’s 1975 dismissal and NZ’s 1984 near-miss (Muldoon, Sir David Beattie) — what conventions do (and don’t) protect.

* The implosion inside Te Pāti Māori — is this the end of the party as we know it?

* Labour’s Capital Gains Tax — why fairness, timing, and communication could define the next election.

* Prince Andrew and the Monarchy — what the UK’s royal reckoning means for New Zealand’s constitutional future.

Hosted by Sam Collins, Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines unpacks the week in New Zealand politics from two sides of the aisle - without the noise. Each episode dives into three or four major stories shaping the country, offering rare cross-partisan insight from two political heavyweights who’ve been inside the cabinet room, across the debating chamber and behind the closed doors of power.

New Episodes every Tuesday.

Follow:

instagram.com/crosspartylines/

https://www.tiktok.com/@crosspartylines

https://www.youtube.com/@CrossPartyLines

New Episodes every Tuesday.

Follow:

instagram.com/crosspartylines/

https://www.tiktok.com/@crosspartylines

https://www.youtube.com/@CrossPartyLines