We Made This Political Podcast

Ep. 69: Liz Joyner on Civics That Doesn’t Feel Like HR Training

Lauren Hall — Mon, 05 Oct 2026 12:00:00 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall welcome Liz Joyner, founder and president of The Village Square, to discuss rebuilding civic trust and healthier public dialogue across political divides. Joyner describes launching the organization in the early digital era after seeing politics become “two angry tribes” and noticing a lack of physical spaces for citizens to discuss contentious local issues beyond op-eds or brief public comment. She explains how The Village Square shifted from fact-driven, HR-training-style civic engagement to hosting lively, food-centered events that build relational “glue,” drawing on ideas like Henrich’s WEIRD “spreadsheet brain,” Haidt’s moral foundations and “hive switch,” and Dunbar’s number. The conversation emphasizes working “upstream” from conflict through groupish, in-person connection, resisting ostracism, and creating proximate, participatory civic spaces that make people feel needed and included.

00:00 Welcome Liz Joiner

01:11 Why Politics Felt Broken

02:44 Building Civic Space

03:41 Beyond HR Training

05:19 Spreadsheet Brain Trap

07:25 Relationships Before Facts

09:57 Process Versus Trust

13:07 Groupish Human Nature

18:22 Upstream From Conflict

21:20 Cross Partisan Blind Spots

25:26 Human Nature 101

27:40 Ostracism Makes It Worse

29:15 Ostracism Fuels Extremes

30:04 Staying Close in Disagreement

31:22 Trust Builds Group Wisdom

34:05 Play Restores Civic Bonds

35:41 Carom Shots and Fun

36:46 Hive Switch in Action

40:22 Beyond Spreadsheet Politics

42:34 Inviting Everyone to the Table

47:04 Local Spaces Are Mandatory

49:01 Weak Ties and Modern Life

51:48 Feeling Needed Again

54:46 Optimism and Where to Find Liz

Resources: How to Find Liz and Other Cool Things

The Village Square

New Civic Future

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Ep. 68 Gabe Fleisher on Saving Political News

Lauren Hall — Mon, 28 Sep 2026 12:00:00 GMT

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum of “We Made This Political” interview Gabe Fleisher, founder and editor of the daily newsletter Wake Up To Politics, which he started in 2011 and now reaches tens of thousands. Fleisher explains how his interest evolved from campaigns to a focus on governmental institutions, process, and undercovered congressional work, and why independent newsletters and Substack enable niche, less conflict-driven coverage that mainstream outlets often won’t prioritize. They discuss how conflict-centered political news obscures bipartisan legislation and broad public agreement on many issues, while party elites can diverge sharply from party voters. Fleisher describes using skepticism, careful poll methodology, and cross-checking data, and addresses reporting on false claims without “both-sidesing.” He shares cautious optimism about rising bipartisan work, populist overlap, and tools like discharge petitions, and directs listeners to wakeuptopolitics.com.00:00 Welcome and Introductions00:58 Gabe’s Origin Story02:50 Mainstream vs Independent Paths03:54 Covering Nuance on Substack07:31 What Drives His Reporting09:17 Journalism Not Advocacy11:17 Working With Data and Polls14:56 Bias and Staying Nonpartisan19:09 What Conflict Coverage Misses23:34 Hidden Consensus and Elite Gaps27:34 Moderates Misread28:18 Polling Forces Boxes29:25 Voters Aren't Unsophisticated31:46 Myth of Left Right33:04 Stop Dismissing Voters35:08 Calling Out Lies Fairly39:23 Outrage Distractions41:40 What Voters Prioritize44:40 Congress Gets Things Done48:10 Bipartisan Work Blocked51:08 Discharge Petitions Rise52:59 Optimism And Where To Find

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Ep. 67: Brendan Polk on the Lindsey Clancy Case, Institutional Failure, and Local Hope

Lauren Hall — Mon, 14 Sep 2026 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with licensed social worker and faith leader Branden Polk about how algorithms, media, and politics encourage subjective “realities” that justify dehumanizing opponents, and how cross-ideological collaboration and virtue development can help people discern the objective. Using the Lindsey Clancy case—ending in a mistrial reportedly split 11–1—as a lens, they discuss failures in the legal process (including not sequestering the jury), gaps in postpartum and mental health care, and perverse incentives in criminal justice that prioritize winning over healing, accountability, and human flourishing. They argue that meaningful reform and nuanced problem-solving are more likely at local levels through community experimentation, while national polarization erodes institutional legitimacy and social trust.00:00 Dehumanization Online00:51 Podcast Introductions02:37 Brandon Work And Hygiene06:03 Beyond Intellectualism07:49 Clancy Case Setup09:18 Jury Mistrial Meaning13:54 System Incentives Broken17:39 Mental Health Court Gaps20:45 Justice Healing Accountability23:43 Local Solutions Hope27:50 Scaling Community Innovation30:07 Polarization Kills Collaboration31:20 Trust Collapse and Incentives32:37 Local Reality and Problem Solving34:29 Virtue and Human Dignity37:32 False Binaries and Complexity39:10 Projection to Purposeful Action43:26 Mattering and Social Media48:48 Presence Over Legacy53:11 Lindsay Clancy and Institutional Nuance57:54 Beloved Community and Closing

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Ep. 66: Nancy von Meyer on Parcels, Permission Systems, and the Future of Land

Lauren Hall — Tue, 08 Sep 2026 12:00:00 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host We Made This Political live on Substack with Nancy von Meyer, a land records, GIS, and property data systems expert and Pendleton Town Council member, discussing her forthcoming book Parcels: How Property Shapes Geography (co-authored with Jerry Poppendorff). Von Meyer explains parcels as the managed geometry of land and, more importantly, a “permission system” tied to zoning and rights, reflecting how societies govern and define community. The conversation covers historical land division from colonization and Revolutionary War land grants to ribbon farms, Levittowns, railroad checkerboards, and how parcels preserve history even as economies shift, using Detroit, Akron, and Rochester as examples. They address tensions between private property and public impacts, redlining, property taxes funding local services, growth-driven density and infill, data centers and “geocollaboration,” infrastructure feedback loops, and climate-change-driven coastal land loss and relocation, ending with optimism about the next generation and where to find the book at regrid.com/book.00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro01:21 What Are Parcels03:31 Parcels as Permissions06:34 Property Rights Tensions11:35 Land as Commerce Taxes14:12 Why Parcel Shapes Persist21:00 Updating Zoning and Density22:55 Detroit Redlining and Decline27:46 Railroad Checkerboard Legacy29:06 Land as Memory29:48 Parcels and Modern Crises30:59 Sea Level Losses32:30 Regressive Adaptation Costs34:22 Housing and Community Ties36:09 Relocating Towns Inland37:04 Road Shift Horror Story41:47 Who Pays for Safety42:50 Geocollaboration Framework44:44 Urbanization Strains Old Laws46:04 Property Rights vs Externalities48:39 Everything Is Up for Grabs50:08 Common Law Flexibility51:18 Redefining Progress54:42 Optimism and Where to Find

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Ep. 65: Cliff Kayser on Polarity Thinking and Interdependence

Lauren Hall — Mon, 31 Aug 2026 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with Cliff Kayser of Polarity Partnerships about “polarity thinking” as an alternative to false either/or binaries in politics and organizational life. Kayser explains polarities as interdependent pairs (like inhale/exhale or activity/rest) that can’t be solved by choosing one side, but can be leveraged over time by maximizing upsides and minimizing predictable downsides using a five-step process: seeing, mapping, assessing, learning, and leveraging. They discuss common polarities in democracy (freedom/authority, justice/due process, diversity/equality, human rights/communal obligations) and leadership (confidence/humility, task/relationship), plus pendulum swings such as centralization versus decentralization. The conversation connects low trust to either/or thinking and explores how AI and social media reinforce binary thinking, arguing humans must ask better questions and develop adaptive, coaching-oriented skills.

00:00 False Binaries Explained

00:32 Meet the Hosts and Guest

02:06 Polarity Thinking Basics

06:50 Democracy and Leadership Polarities

11:23 The Five Step Polarity Process

16:05 Pendulum Swings in Organizations

23:31 Part Whole in Politics

29:08 Why Politics Goes Either Or

38:05 Trust as the Hidden Ingredient

43:56 AI Bias Toward Either Or

53:20 Optimism and Where to Follow

56:36 Closing and Credits

Find Cliff’s Work

Read his Substack Cliff’s Notes.

Connect with him at Polarity Partnerships here.

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Ep. 64: Grace Pouch on Slowing Down, Adding Friction, and Forming Better People

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Mon, 24 Aug 2026 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Grace Pate Pouch, author of Savoring Childhood: Practical Wisdom for Slowing Down and co-founder of Upstate Unplugged, about why childhood is “for being a child” and how modern life rushes kids (and adults) through it. They discuss instant gratification, fragmented attention, and disembodiment driven by phones, on-demand purchasing, and ed tech, arguing for intentionally “adding friction” through small, incremental choices that build patience, self-control, agency, and purpose. Grace connects slowing down to spiritual formation and civic life, emphasizing practices that develop the capacity to love, contribute, and respond well rather than merely knowing the right answers. She ends with optimism about Greenville County Schools’ new classroom tech limits and leaders publicly acknowledging overreliance on technology.00:00 Meet the Hosts01:12 Introducing Grace Pouch01:57 What Childhood Is For03:52 Why Life Feels Too Fast08:25 Adding Friction Back11:04 Attention and Presence15:15 Embodiment and Phones18:36 Analog Comeback22:47 Ed Tech Skepticism26:22 Institutional Pressures28:25 Culture and Agency30:27 Local Screen Advocacy31:46 Small Wins Mindset33:26 Spiritual Formation Focus37:11 Discipline Builds Freedom40:23 Slow Consuming Culture43:05 Participation Over Consumption48:16 Savoring Faith Through Play49:37 Struggle Grows Agency51:47 Counterpoints For Balance53:19 Where To Find Grace55:15 Optimism And Policy Wins56:24 Closing And Farewell

Additional Resources

“Mothers Are Not Machines” by writer Lindsey DeLoach Jones

Renovare Institute for Spiritual Formation

“Greenville County Schools Working to Reduce Screentime in Classrooms” — newspaper article on Rule 1A that Upstate Unplugged advocated to adopt

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Ep. 63: Jess Lee on Race, Identity and the Trouble with Categories

Lauren Hall — Mon, 17 Aug 2026 12:00:00 GMT

On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with sociologist Jess Lee (Cal Poly) about how the umbrella category “Asian American” was created as a post–Civil Rights political instrument to gain visibility and protection, yet can distort reality by centering East Asians, masking vast subgroup diversity, and limiting personal possibilities through stereotypes like the “model minority.” Lee explains how broad categories affect representation, resource allocation, and quantitative research, obscuring poverty, first-generation college needs, and shifting census definitions (including Middle Easterners being counted as white and many Asians reduced to write-ins). The conversation also covers interracial and interethnic dating as largely shaped by access and homogamy (especially socioeconomic), sex ratios in immigration flows, and how assimilation is increasingly seen as hybridization that reshapes what “American” means at the local level.00:00 Breaking Asian Stereotypes00:34 Meet the Hosts and Jess Lee02:19 Why Asian American Feels Messy07:04 Origins of the Asian American Umbrella14:25 Model Minority Myth Costs17:27 Who Counts as Asian22:20 Selection Effects and Stereotype Promise30:26 Measurement Problems in Research36:55 Interracial Dating and Homogamy49:20 Race Boxes and Census Confusion52:11 Assimilation and Hybrid America58:34 Local Hope and Closing

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Ep. 62: William Deresiewicz on Liberal Education, Citizenship, and the Crisis of the University

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and William Deresiewicz — Mon, 03 Aug 2026 12:00:00 GMT

On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview author and former Yale professor William Deresiewicz about his essay “Colleges Maybe Try Teaching” and the link between the decline of liberal education and liberal democracy. They contrast liberal education for citizenship with “servile” or purely utilitarian job training, arguing universities’ incentives—research pressure, credentialing, online instruction, politicization, and activism—undermine teaching and truth-seeking. Deresiewicz distinguishes citizens from activists, emphasizing shared political community, humility, patience, courage, and learning to be wrong, cultivated through seminar-style discussion and especially literature’s ability to build theory of mind and moral complexity. They discuss adult alternatives like The Catherine Project and the Matthew Strother Center for the Examined Life, and end with optimism that curiosity and hunger for deep learning are renewable.

00:00 Moral Maturity and Citizenship

00:37 Podcast and Guest Introduction

02:45 Liberal Democracy Meets Liberal Education

05:26 Servile Versus Liberal Learning

09:37 University Incentives and Research Overload

11:31 Politicization and Academic Conformity

13:52 Activists Versus Citizens

23:31 Virtues Learned in Seminar

27:11 Adult Great Books Alternatives

30:29 Reading Decline and Programs That Work

32:14 Seminar Teaching Magic

34:12 Why Online Learning Fails

36:52 The Real Cost of Small Classes

39:50 Credentialism and Teaching Reform

42:35 Mental Health and Fear of Wrong

45:06 Teaching as Craft Not Content

50:19 Literature Builds Theory of Mind

55:28 Tribalism and Moral Complexity

57:24 Wisdom and Living with Tensions

59:04 Hope and Where to Find Him

01:01:30 Closing Credits and Subscribe

Additional Resources

Bill’s website, where you can contact him, read his essays, and order his books

Social psychologist Michael Inzlicht’s substack essay, “My p-hacking felt like truth”

The website of the American Council on Education, which focuses on effective teaching’s impact on student success

Jennifer Frey on liberal education versus servile education

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Ep. 61: Abi Olvera on Abundance and Positive Sum Thinking

Lauren Hall — Mon, 03 Aug 2026 12:00:00 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Abi Olvera, writer of the Substack Positive Sum, about the “abundance” movement. Olvera frames abundance as “YIMBY for everything,” emphasizing prioritizing policies that materially affect people’s lives and improving state capacity by removing bottlenecks in housing, daycare, healthcare, workforce licensing, fire codes, and science funding. The conversation highlights examples like certificate-of-need laws and competitor’s vetoes that block new clinics and birth centers, occupational licensing that prevents mobility and locks out people with felonies, and regulatory regimes designed for large corporations that exclude small entrepreneurs. They discuss how debates over regulation often ignore counterfactuals (e.g., AI or safety vs no service), how scarcity thinking fuels partisan “bogeymen,” and how rebuilding public trust through responsive, outcome-focused governance could enable positive-sum progress.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

03:13 Defining the Abundance Movement

06:00 Certificate of Need Problems

08:52 Expanding the Abundance Agenda

10:34 Occupational Licensing Barriers

12:28 Fire Codes and Safety

13:50 Regulation Debates and Frameworks

16:55 The Counterfactual Problem

18:48 Scarcity vs Abundance Politics

21:11 Government Trust and Efficiency

23:11 Positive Sum Thinking

25:59 Making Abundance Motivating

27:56 Working Class Perspectives

30:50 Funding the Abundance Agenda

31:36 Distinguishing Protections from Obstacles

33:38 Improving Laws and Regulations

36:02 Learning from Missing Data

37:09 Fire Safety Paradox

38:32 Corporate Bias in Regulations

41:57 Gaming the System

43:19 Human Flexibility in Government

44:46 Building Trust in Systems

46:32 Responsive Government and Trust

48:56 Government Success Stories

51:10 Local vs Federal Incentives

53:22 State Department Resilience

55:36 Optimism and Closing Thoughts

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Ep. 60: Lauren and Lura on What Holds a Country Together

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:00:00 GMT

Lura and Lauren host a duo episode of We Made This Political on what holds a country together as the U.S. marks the Declaration of Independence’s 250th anniversary month. They argue politics should be understood as relationship and shared flourishing, not winner-take-all power, warning that Pyrrhic victories undermine the ability to live and govern together. Hall contrasts national dysfunction with local communities where people quietly maintain civic life, sharing stories about preserving a historic home and restoring an old cemetery. They discuss Hall’s “running democracy on volunteers” theme, the “heroism tax” on underpaid, undertrained small-town mayors, rising threats and harassment, and county clerks caught in national election battles. They link polarization to social sorting and tribal identity, and suggest local conflict-management training and institutional neutrality policies to keep symbolic national fights from capturing local governance.

00:00 Politics As Relationship

01:34 Podcast Premise And 250th

03:10 Founding Community Over State

05:22 Local History In Action

08:50 Growing And Tending Communities

11:44 Volunteer Democracy And Mayors

13:28 Heroism Tax In Boroughs

20:35 Clerks Elections And Pay

24:54 Support Systems For Local Roles

30:31 Winner Take All Spiral

32:17 How Polarization Sorting Happened

33:41 Identity Threat Politics

35:39 Myths About The Other Side

37:19 Breaking The Sorting Cycle

39:42 Beyond Winner Loser Thinking

42:43 Local Governance Lowers Heat

45:50 Tools For Town Boards

49:19 Rebuilding The Leadership Pipeline

51:46 Influencer Politicians Rise

57:12 Rewarding Deliberation Again

59:10 Finding Hope Locally

01:04:13 Closing And Next Episode

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Ep. 59: Tony Williams on the Debating the Declaration

Lauren Hall — Mon, 20 Jul 2026 12:00:00 GMT

Lura and Lauren host Tony Williams of the Bill of Rights Institute to discuss his book Divided Over the Declaration and the long history of Americans arguing over the Declaration of Independence. Williams explains that debates over the document’s meaning have shifted across eras, with different generations emphasizing consent, equality, and other principles, and argues that ongoing disagreement is a core feature of self-government rather than a threat. They focus on modern misunderstandings of “all men are created equal,” and Williams cites Jefferson’s excised anti–slave trade passage as textual evidence that “men” meant human beings, even though equality was not realized for all. The conversation turns to polarization, social media, weakened civil society, and practical steps to rebuild civic friendship through local community engagement.00:00 Welcome and Setup00:31 Meet Tony Williams01:05 Why the Declaration Matters03:52 Modern Misreadings of Equality06:10 Slavery Era Declaration Debates07:26 Debate as Self Government10:17 Did Jefferson Mean Universal13:15 Draft Clues on Slavery15:28 Parenting and Civic Virtue19:09 Ordered Liberty Today20:21 Consent of the Governed21:19 Social Media and Extremes22:15 Rebuilding Civic Life24:56 Zero Sum Politics Fallout27:20 Declaration as Covenant30:56 Liberty Meets Community33:30 Civic Habits You Can Practice36:30 America Divided Then and Now40:06 Optimism and Better Angels42:02 Where to Find Tony43:18 Closing and Declaration Challenge

Resources

Ready Tony and David Bobbs’ book Divided Over the Declaration

Find Tony at the Bill of Rights Institute, including free resources for educators and civic leaders

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Ep. 58: Lauren and Lura on Political Grief

Lauren Hall — Mon, 13 Jul 2026 12:00:00 GMT

In this solo episode of We Made This Political, Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall explore “political grief”: the sadness beneath political anger when a party, institution, or identity that once felt like home changes or reveals hypocrisy. They discuss how anger can mask vulnerability, share their own politically “homeless” backgrounds across Democratic, progressive, libertarian, and conservative intellectual traditions, and describe grief over MAGA’s damage to conservative principles and institutions such as rule of law and checks and balances. They also critique Democratic failures, elite insularity, culture-war politics, and gaslighting voters’ lived experiences. The conversation emphasizes pluralism, coalition-building, and restoring feedback between voters and government through community ties, electoral reform, and practical civic actions like contacting representatives and building local relationships.00:00 Political Grief Intro01:32 Anger Hiding Grief03:36 Lura’s Party Journey07:22 Lauren’s Political Homelessness10:45 Mourning Conservatism and Institutions15:13 Hypocrisy and Immigration Shock17:50 Both Parties’ Dysfunction21:30 Principles and Being Cast Out23:40 Elites and Voter Disconnect28:40 Why Democrats Struggle to Coalition30:48 Progressive History Theory32:36 Pluralism and The Other Side34:59 Lego Batman Tease35:30 Batman Joker Polarity37:14 Political Grief in DC38:07 Congress Dysfunction Incentives41:54 Fragile Systems Feedback44:24 Community and Chosen Family49:24 Independents and Party Homogeneity52:16 Channeling Grief into Action55:20 Potlucks and Rebuilding Trust58:17 Rightsizing Politics and Citizenship01:00:47 Practical Civic Engagement01:02:06 Closing and Next Episodes

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Ep. 57: [Archives] Fourth of July Special

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Mon, 06 Jul 2026 12:00:00 GMT

From the archives: We’re reposting one of our favorite conversations from last year to celebrate the 4th while we take some time off with our families. Enjoy!

In this special July 4th episode, we explore what patriotism looks like in 2025 and what we are truly celebrating on Independence Day. Lura and Lauren emphasize the importance of community, civic engagement, and the unique diversity of American life. They share personal stories and reflections on local events, discussing how shared spaces and sustained interactions with diverse groups can reduce prejudice and foster unity. The conversation also touches on the challenges of balancing personal responsibilities and community involvement, the historical context of American values, and the evolving role of the presidency.

Recommendations for celebrating include listening to Aaron Copland's music* and reading Frederick Douglass's speech, 'What to the Slave is the Fourth of July?'

00:00 Introduction and Guiding Questions

00:11 Defining Patriotism in 2025

00:42 Local Celebrations and Community Spirit

04:39 The Importance of Intergroup Contact

08:39 Challenges of Modern Socialization

10:26 Hosting Community Events

15:27 Historical Context and Moral Ambiguity

22:14 Parenting and Societal Expectations

30:11 Local vs. National Politics

36:58 Exploring Race Relations and Social Behavior

37:04 Acts of Kindness in Airports

38:00 Reflecting on American Values and Utopianism

39:17 Polarization and Perception of America

41:28 Immigrants' Perspective on America

46:14 The Role and Power of the President

55:40 The Importance of Local Communities

57:18 Final Thoughts and Recommendations* Erratum: Lura states incorrectly in the podcast that Aaron Copland was not an American. He was the child of Lithuanian immigrants and studied extensively in Europe. That may be the source of confusion, or it could just be confusion. Lura apologizes for the error.

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Ep. 56: Maryam Mehrtash on Reinventing the Village

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Maryam Mehrtash — Mon, 29 Jun 2026 12:02:18 GMT

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum host We Made This Political with guest Maryam Mehrtash, a former marketing executive (Disney, Marvel Studios, 20th Century, and the Paramount+ launch) who pivoted after a late-2023/early-2024 layoff into writing, Substack (This Is Not a Memo), speaking, and authoring her first book on reinvention, leadership, and how systems are failing people. She describes losing her identity after job loss, the pressures of transactional corporate culture, and a heart attack at 42 that she links to compounded chronic stress plus genetic risk (elevated lipoprotein(a)) and elevated LDL; she urges awareness of women’s heart-attack symptoms and Lp(a) testing. The conversation centers on her essay “We Were Never Meant to Do This Alone,” critiquing American self-sufficiency myths, discussing lost “villages,” workplace and policy gaps (childcare, paid leave, healthcare), community-building practices, and potential admin-load relief via AI.00:00 Meet Maryam Mehrtash00:41 From Disney to Reinvention02:20 Layoff and Identity Shift05:16 Heart Attack Wake Up Call13:05 Values Boundaries and Betting on Yourself18:59 We Were Never Meant Alone26:26 Rehumanizing Work and Policy32:38 Compounds and Modern Villages39:22 AI and the Invisible Load43:13 How to Build Your Village49:12 Where to Find Maryam50:11 Closing and Optimism

Resources

Find Maryam on Substack.

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Ep. 55: Scott Warren and Morgan Ramsey-Elliot on Conservative Voters and Saving Democracy

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, Scott Warren, and Morgan Ramsey-Elliot — Tue, 23 Jun 2026 12:00:00 GMT

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum host Scott Warren (SNF Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins) and Morgan Ramsey-Elliot (ReD Associates) to discuss their report, “Faith, Freedom, Family and Place,” an ethnographic study of conservative Americans’ relationships to democracy and institutional trust. They explain why common “save democracy” messaging often falls flat, arguing that democracy means different things across audiences and can be heard as protecting the status quo or advancing a partisan progressive agenda. Drawing on deep fieldwork, they describe a moral foundation—faith, freedom, family, and place—and three conservative orientations (actor critics, system critics, and foundation defenders) that predict tolerance for democratic norm deviation. The conversation highlights how local civic life, institutional encounters, COVID-era experiences, and information ecosystems shape distrust, and stresses listening, specificity, and honest reckoning with institutional failures.

00:00 Welcome and Guests

00:44 Why Study Conservatives

01:36 Limits of Polling

04:18 Red Associates Approach

07:03 Save Democracy Messaging

10:41 Democracy Means What

17:03 Faith Freedom Family Place

18:43 Inside the Ethnography

24:00 Values in Daily Life

28:32 Types of Conservative Critics

30:36 Crisis Segments Explained

31:41 Bridge Building Strategies

33:51 Elite Messaging And Slippage

36:23 COVID Trust Breakdown

38:19 Everyday Institutional Failures

42:06 Illiberalism Perception Gap

45:36 Ethnography Interview Method

49:02 Why Outrage Persuasion Fails

51:09 Report Reception And Backlash

54:46 Dissemination And Hope

Resources

Full Report: https://conservativestudy.redassociates.com/

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Ep. 54: Paul Kane on Congressional Dysfunction, Media Decline, and Broken Incentives

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Paul Kane — Mon, 15 Jun 2026 12:15:00 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host We Made This Political with congressional reporter Paul Kane of NOTUS, who explains how he moved from planning for law school to a 26-year career covering Congress and what makes a good congressional reporter. Kane argues that communications technology and the collapse of local and regional news have reshaped Congress, enabling “radical transparency” without reliable context and weakening accountability, illustrated by Rep. Tom Kean Jr. not being seen publicly since March 5th.

The conversation covers low legislative output in 2025 and recent Congresses, the Senate’s procedural paralysis and focus on nominations, changing incentive structures favoring fundraising and attention over legislating, and norms that no longer enforce behavior because punishment can be monetized. Kane critiques media’s focus on controversy, highlights Gabe Fleisher’s Wake Up to Politics, and ends with cautious hope in growing, less click-driven journalism and stories like Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester’s.00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro00:55 Paul Kane Origin Story02:30 Reporting Lessons From Local Politics05:03 What Makes a Great Hill Reporter09:35 How Congress Changed With Phones14:23 Radical Transparency Tradeoffs15:53 Missing Congressman Case Study20:03 Low Information Voters and Swings24:15 Approval Ratings and Cynicism27:03 Why Lawmaking Has Stalled32:09 Coalitions to Gridlock33:14 Fundraising and Selection Effects35:19 McHenry’s Incentive Shift42:13 Rules Fail and Punishment Backfires45:42 Chaos Era New Normal48:48 Media’s Role in Polarization53:50 Independent News and New Models57:00 Hopeful Signs and Closing

Resources

Find Paul’s Work:

Paul’s final Washington Post column: https://wapo.st/4uBtWDU

Pauls’s interview with former Representative Patrick McHenry (NC-10): https://535.news/interviews/patrick-mchenry-jun-3-2026/

Norms in Congress (NOTUS): https://www.notus.org/analysis/congress-there-are-no-rules-mike-johnson-republicans-legislation

Paul’s NOTUS bio and article listing: https://www.notus.org/paul-kane

Paul’s Blue Sky profile: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:vqueu3b2o4xv4kcscj4dxdwf

Paul’s X/Twitter profile: https://x.com/pkcapitol

Other Writers Discussed in the Episode:

Gabe’s Wake Up to Politics Newsletter

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Ep. 53: Nathan Smolensky on Independent Voters and Finding Common Ground

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Nathan Smolensky — Mon, 08 Jun 2026 12:00:00 GMT

On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Nate Smolensky, a strategist for independent candidates and author of Common Ground From the Ground Up, about why independent identification is rising (about 45% and growing) and what people want from politics: less pessimism, more authenticity, problem-solving, and respectful engagement. Smolensky distinguishes independents as candidates and voters not beholden to either major party and argues the parties optimize for base-driven, alienating messaging—accelerated since 1994 and amplified by social media—while blocking competition through spoiler narratives. He highlights several independent campaigns polling competitively and explains “second option” strategies in one-party strongholds. The conversation also explores existential fear politics, voter empowerment, and Smolensky’s “collaborative discourse” approach—moving from win-lose argument to learning, “yes-and” additive conversations, and policy discussions that incorporate multiple perspectives.

00:00 Independents Can Break Gridlock

00:19 Meet the Hosts and Nate

01:54 Why So Many Independents

02:20 Authenticity Over Policy

04:28 What Independent Really Means

07:17 Representation Gap and Median Voter

09:15 Parties Cater to the Base

11:28 Politics as Market Segmentation

14:15 How the Strategy Took Hold

17:09 Independent Candidates Rising

20:00 Spoiler Effect and Vote Shaming

28:08 Existential Threat Messaging

32:43 Independents as Fulcrum

34:27 Earn My Vote Messaging

37:20 Collaborative Discourse Explained

40:24 Stop Trying to Convert

45:20 Zero Sum vs Additive

51:42 Yes And Policy Thinking

55:48 Moral Beliefs vs Policy

58:06 Hope and Where to Find

01:00:22 Closing Thanks and Outro

Resources

* Nate’s book Finding Common Ground

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 52: Ben Appel on Gender Heresy and Belonging

Lauren Hall — Mon, 01 Jun 2026 12:01:00 GMT

On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with writer Ben Appel about his memoir Cis White Gay: The Making of a Gender Heretic and how identity, group loyalty, and the need for belonging shape belief and punish dissent. Appel describes returning to school at Columbia at 33 after a career in hairdressing and personal struggles, and how campus culture, critical theory, and political sloganeering pushed him to question reductive binaries, self-censorship, and seeing government as good only when it serves “my side.” The conversation covers polarization, the lack of ideological viewpoint diversity in education, pressures to conform, debates within gay communities such as marriage equality, and concerns about medicalizing gender-nonconforming youth and the difficulties faced by detransitioners. Appel finds hope in stepping back from social media, connecting with people, and focusing on everyday respect and curiosity, including talking to Trump voters as fellow human beings.

00:00 Talk to Trump Voters

00:19 Meet Ben Appel

01:53 Why Write Cis White Gay

06:57 Parroting Politics

13:14 Life Experience at Columbia

19:23 Starved for Viewpoints

23:23 Critical Theory as Dogma

25:40 Binary Thinking and Trump

31:54 Language Policing in Academia

36:09 Identity Buckets Debate

37:40 Growing Up Effeminate

40:42 From Inclusion to Medicalization

44:15 Critical Theory Distraction

50:22 Performing Identity Wrong

52:40 Gay Marriage Clash

01:03:18 Detransitioners Aftercare Gap

01:07:09 Finding Hope Offline

01:15:05 Wrap Up and Credits

Resources

Ben’s Substack Ben Appel’s Newsletter

Ben’s book, Cis White Gay

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 51: Corey Nathan on Religion, Politics, and Living Together

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Corey Nathan — Tue, 26 May 2026 16:02:19 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host We Made This Political live with guest Corey Nathan, host of Talking Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other, to discuss how to disagree without dehumanizing. Corey shares his shifts from an observant Jewish upbringing to becoming a born-again Christian, how family and church conflicts shaped his commitment to healthier civic conversation, and his critique of American evangelicalism as tied to colonialism and power. Lauren describes her complex religious background and conversion to Catholicism, emphasizing perspective shifting, resisting silos, and distinguishing toleration from relativism. Lura, Lauren, and Corey explore curiosity as a practice, fear and existential framing as drivers of polarization, when firm boundaries and pushback are necessary (especially against leaders harming vulnerable groups), and why civic renewal efforts and everyday people still give them hope.

00:00 Meet the Hosts

00:56 Introducing Corey Nathan

02:30 Corey’s Faith and Politics Shift

06:43 Lauren’s Interfaith Upbringing

10:19 Why Lauren Became Catholic

13:03 Evangelicalism and Empire Critique

18:34 Earning Worth vs Grace

20:36 Repairing the World Together

23:51 Holding Tension Not Binaries

28:26 Weaponized Faith in Politics

30:37 Keep Reading the Scripture

34:20 No Neat Answers

35:13 Pets and Polarization

35:59 Jesus and the Pharisees

37:39 Curious Over Furious

40:30 Cultivating Curiosity

42:17 Grace and One Degree

45:06 When to Push Back

50:16 Fear Shuts Down Dialogue

55:03 Most People Are Nuanced

56:51 Hope and Civic Renewal

01:00:42 Where to Find Corey

01:01:34 Closing and Credits

Resources

Find Corey on Substack here.

Find his podcast Talkin’ Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other here.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 50: Leah Sargent on the Dignity of Dependence

Lauren Hall — Tue, 19 May 2026 13:46:51 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview writer and essayist Leah Sargent about her book The Dignity of Dependence, arguing that dependence is a normal, dignified part of human life rather than an interruption to flourishing, and that a false ideal of autonomy undermines a just society. They discuss how prosperity and medical buffering foster illusory control, American frontier individualism, and rights language that downplays duties, while emphasizing that people often fear depending on others more than being depended upon, citing suicide and euthanasia motivations. The conversation explores asymmetry in relationships, gratitude, and responding to help without denying burden, then connects dependence to Christian life and grace, Catholic conversion, and finitude. They examine motherhood, parenting, “the given,” and limits of agency, and consider birth and death as non-purely-medical events shaped by trust, home birth/hospice, and professionalization, extending to mental illness, disability, and reciprocal community accommodations.

00:00 Meet Leah Sargent

00:34 Why Dependence Has Dignity

02:04 Family and Life Cycles

03:29 Prosperity and Control Illusions

05:49 American Independence Myth

07:04 Rights Duties and Ownership

11:17 Fear of Being a Burden

14:30 Asymmetry and Gratitude

17:43 Faith Grace and Dependence

25:40 Agency Limits and Doomscrolling

28:25 Motherhood and Being Finite

32:30 Accepting the Given

34:35 Stoicism and Christian Suffering

35:15 Trust in Childbirth

38:20 Birth Plans and Support

40:50 Birth and Death as Dependence

44:02 Professionalizing Death

45:11 Regulation and Human Goodbyes

49:04 Hospital Noise and Dignity

50:17 Mental Illness and Asymmetry

53:30 Accommodation and Reciprocity

55:47 Dementia Cafes and Interdependence

58:04 Closing Thoughts and Where to Find Leah

Resources

Find Leah’s work at https://leahlibresco.com/

You can find links to her books, including The Dignity of Dependence, here.

Articles mentioned in the podcast: Everyone is Eventually a Burden and Mothers Are Not Machines

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 49: David Beckmeyer on Outrage Overload, Tech, Media, and Tribalism

Lauren Hall — Mon, 11 May 2026 12:00:00 GMT

On the We Made This Political podcast, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview David Beckmeyer, creator of Outrage Overload, about how constant political conflict shapes emotions, behavior, and relationships. Beckmeyer explains he began the project after seeing post-2016 and COVID-era outrage break friendships and families, and after recognizing his own role in online pile-ons. They discuss how outrage can feel rewarding through shared social judgment, how misinformation and especially framing distort public understanding, and how social media enables people to form insulated bubbles at global scale—even without algorithms. The conversation emphasizes complexity, trade-offs, and opportunity costs in policy debates, urging curiosity, practical “scripts” like “tell me more,” boundaries when needed, and more local, relationship-based engagement to reduce polarization.

00:00 Online Bubbles Begin

00:28 Podcast And Guest Intro

01:54 Why Outrage Overload

04:17 The Reward Of Outrage

06:09 Lessons From 125 Experts

08:40 Tech Algorithms And Misinformation

13:20 Framing And Media Funnels

16:29 Local Community Reality Check

19:04 Landscape And Ecosystem Thinking

22:51 Tradeoffs Over Talking Points

23:48 COVID Debates Gone Wrong

30:20 Immigration As Outrage Bludgeon

34:35 Bridging Work Surprise

35:26 Why People Resist Bridging

37:49 Tribal Segregation Instincts

39:15 Outrage Versus Overload

40:14 Tradeoffs And Bandwidth

42:06 Relationships Breaking Apart

44:06 Stop Trying To Win

46:24 Curiosity Scripts That Work

53:48 Shared Projects Humanize

56:50 Parenting Lessons On Outrage

01:00:04 Tell Me More Mindset

01:02:24 Where To Find David

01:03:14 Reasons For Optimism

01:04:30 Final Thanks And Outro

Resources:

Find all of David’s work, including his podcast Outrage Overload, at outrageoverload.net

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 48: Colleen Shogan on Public History, Polarization, and the Future of the National Archives

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Colleen Shogan — Mon, 04 May 2026 12:00:00 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Colleen Shogan, the 11th Archivist of the United States, about practicing public history in a polarized, low-trust environment. Shogan explains the Archivist’s nonpartisan, Senate-confirmed role overseeing a nationwide federal agency, and describes being fired by President Trump without the legally required explanation to Congress. She discusses the personal impact, support she received, and her quick return to work through More Perfect’s “In Pursuit” project. The conversation covers why politicizing institutions like the National Archives and Library of Congress fuels public suspicion, the need to hold complexity and nuance in American history, and how archives enable evolving interpretations. Shogan warns that inadequate funding threatens access to massive born-digital records and outlines plans for a costly “system of systems,” while noting archives’ future importance in verifying truth amid deepfakes.

00:00 Welcome and Introductions

01:05 What an Archivist Does

03:25 Nonpartisan Role Explained

06:03 Fired Without Explanation

08:28 Criticism From Both Sides

12:08 Coping and Moving Forward

17:19 New Platform After NARA

18:44 Polarization and Trust Crisis

23:42 Holding Complexity in History

26:39 Lincoln Douglass and Nuance

31:19 Revising History Temptation

32:13 Blimp View History

33:20 Critical Juncture Debate

34:11 Why Archives Matter

35:59 Reconstruction Records Lessons

38:32 Born Digital Crisis

43:01 Access Not Storage

44:14 Deepfakes Trust Proof

47:17 In Pursuit Project

55:51 Learning From Failures

01:01:01 Planning Next 250

Resources

Check out the wonderful collection of essays celebrating our nation’s 250th at In Pursuit and the podcast In Pursuit with Colleen Shogan

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 47: Joshua Bandoch on Persuasion, Emotional Intelligence and Positive Politics

Lauren Hall — Sun, 26 Apr 2026 23:53:33 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host “We Made This Political,” a podcast about making politics more about flourishing than power, and interview Joshua Bandoch, author of How to Get What You Want and VP of Policy at the Illinois Policy Institute. Bandoch explains he wrote the book after seeing good ideas fail without effective communication, arguing persuasion requires emotional intelligence because people feel before they reason and emotions support reasoning. The discussion connects persuasion to curiosity, pluralism, and polarization, criticizing “logic tsunamis,” tribal signaling, and viewing opponents as “crazy, stupid, or evil.” Drawing on moral foundations theory, Bandoch urges understanding others’ values rather than trying to change them, and emphasizes positive, “for something” leadership as more persuasive than fear-based negativity. He also applies persuasion to parenting by offering children off-ramps and modeling calm emotional regulation. The book releases tomorrow and Bandoch can be found on LinkedIn and joshuabandoch.com.

00:00 Meet the Hosts

00:57 Introducing Josh and His Book

01:38 Why Persuasion Matters

02:45 Feelings Before Reason

07:25 Positive Emotions Win People Over

10:37 Curiosity Over Crusading

12:40 Polarization and the Persuasive Mindset

16:16 Moral Foundations and Wired Values

18:18 Pluralism and Appealing to Values

23:01 Tribalism, Power, and Losing Persuasion

26:16 Fear Behind Being Right

27:16 Practicing Being Wrong

27:37 Fear Politics and Curiosity

31:44 Negativity Bias in Media

33:02 Why Positivity Persuades

36:39 Pope Leo vs Trump Messaging

39:23 Trump Empathy and Slogans

42:59 Right vs Making Difference

46:34 Off Ramps and Face Saving

48:29 Why Americans Polarize

51:44 Parenting as Persuasion

53:46 Book Plug and Farewell

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 46: Sam Daley-Harris on Transformational Advocacy

Lauren Hall — Mon, 13 Apr 2026 12:00:00 GMT

Laura Forcum and Lauren Hall host “We Made This Political,” a podcast about making politics more about flourishing and less about power, and interview civic entrepreneur Sam Daley-Harris, author of Reclaiming Our Democracy. Daley-Harris recounts his path from percussionist and former symphony musician to founding the anti-poverty lobby RESULTS after confronting world hunger and discovering most students couldn’t name their member of Congress. He contrasts “transactional” actions like petitions with “transformational advocacy” built on recruitment and community, training, practice, coaching, relationship-building, deep listening, and encouraging people to move beyond their comfort zones. The conversation explores how music-informed rehearsal and collective experience support advocacy, why cynicism can be paralyzing, and how sustained citizen engagement can influence outcomes, including efforts affecting proposed cuts to the EPA, maternal and child health, and the Global Fund.

00:00 Podcast Intro

00:51 Sam’s Music Past

06:28 From Music to Advocacy

10:48 Music Skills in Activism

18:30 Collective Effervescence

20:47 Beating Cynicism With Action

29:24 Transactional vs Transformational

31:35 Three Pillars of Advocacy

32:26 Breakthroughs Beyond Comfort

33:42 Amnesty Letters Perspective

35:55 Coaching Through Listening

40:34 Relationships Over Wins

42:04 Long Game Advocacy Wins

47:41 Protests Voting Missing Piece

56:59 Pseudo Politics Real Action

59:14 Bipartisanship For Durability

01:03:50 Optimism Resources Farewell

Resources

Check out Sam’s book Reclaiming Our Democracy and Sam’s website Reclaiming Our Democracy for more info on transformational advocacy and how to contact Sam.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 45: Joe Waters on the Common Good, Family Policy, and Predictability

Lauren Hall — Mon, 06 Apr 2026 12:26:00 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host Joe Waters, CEO of Capita, to discuss how government should promote the common good by creating social conditions that help people and families flourish. Waters explains Capita’s founding in 2018 to address how major transformations—artificial intelligence, demographic change, political realignment, and climate disruption—affect families, and to push longer-term policy thinking beyond short-term fixes. He highlights Capita’s work with the Aspen Institute on the U.S. Early Years Climate Action Task Force and its Unifying Family Policy series. The conversation focuses on public distrust driven by systems failures, the need for politicians to listen more directly to constituents, and the importance of stability and predictability in work schedules and public institutions. They also discuss mental health as shaped by family and community conditions, Waters’ Catholic social teaching framework, and sources of optimism including springtime and anticipated papal interventions.

00:00 Common Good Defined

00:44 Podcast Introductions

02:18 Why Capita Exists

05:52 Climate and Early Years

08:08 Family Policy Agenda

10:27 Wicked Problems Framework

11:58 Center Left Lost Narrative

17:20 FDR Lessons on Trust

19:17 Listening and Access Gap

26:47 Stability and Predictability

29:47 Unpredictability And Politics

30:48 Regressive Impacts Of Closures

32:01 Institution Attacks And Chaos

33:54 Democrats And Durable Governance

34:42 Cuts Medicaid Snap Fallout

36:15 Exploitation And Anti Incumbent Wave

37:43 Mental Health Beyond Individuals

42:07 Common Good And Citizenship

45:59 Stability Across Ideologies

49:56 Catholic Social Teaching Lens

51:22 Wrap Up And Where To Follow

52:18 Optimism Spring And Pope Leo

54:33 Final Thanks And Outro

Resources

Find Joe and his podcast Per Capita at Capita.org.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 44: Mike Lee on Civility, Rhetoric, and Disagreeing Better

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Mon, 30 Mar 2026 12:00:00 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Mike Lee, director of the Civility Initiative at the College of Charleston and host of When We Disagree, about how to improve disagreement through both debate and dialogue. Lee argues dialogue requires letting go of winning to humanize conflict and preserve long-term relationships, while debate uses evidence and stress-testing to clarify issues and strengthen arguments; done well, each supports the other. Hall shares a pandemic-era student government conflict involving Slack disputes, Blue Lives Matter symbolism, privacy, and free speech, which revealed the need for dialogue alongside principled adjudication. They discuss conflict avoidance on campuses, perspective-taking and mentalizing, structured on-ramps and accessible topics to make disagreement less threatening, and whether media can scale healthier models via parasocial contact. Lee ends with optimism about people’s hunger for connection and the return of sunshine in Charleston.

Thanks for reading We Made This Political Podcast! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.

00:00 Dialogue vs Debate

00:41 Podcast Introductions

02:20 Civility Initiative Explained

03:30 Why the Distinction Matters

05:56 Campus Conflict Case Study

10:09 Forbearance and Relationships

11:26 Do Students Want to Win

15:13 Debate Kids and Parenting

18:56 Active Listening Can Weaponize

23:52 Conflict Avoidance on Campus

27:26 Three Ways to Spark Debate

31:35 Curiosity Shift Drill

33:33 Debate as Perspective Taking

36:46 Mentalization Against Tribalism

40:28 Can Good Debate Scale

43:43 Adam Smith and Sympathy

47:58 Parasocial Contact Through Media

52:12 Teaching Dialogue in Class

54:32 Adversarial Collaboration Model

58:51 Hopeful Closing and Plugs

Resources

You can find Mike’s books here:

Creating Conservatism We Are Not One People: Secession and Separatism in American Politics Since 1776

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 43 WMTP: Elizabeth Neumann on Rage, Extremism, the Online Outrage Machine

Lauren Hall — Mon, 16 Mar 2026 13:00:00 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host Elizabeth Neumann, former DHS assistant secretary for counterterrorism and author of Kingdom of Rage, to discuss how dynamics long studied overseas—radicalization, identity threat, and extremist mobilization—have intensified in U.S. politics, with data showing a post-2016 shift in plots and attacks and a growing public tolerance for hostile action.

Neumann argues ideology is often a poor explanation for violence compared with unmet needs for belonging and significance, crisis moments, and pervasive online exposure to extremist content; she distinguishes radical ideas from extremism, defined as believing hostile action is the only choice.

The conversation covers dehumanizing discourse as a key driver, the limits of arguing people out of beliefs, the role of empathy in disengagement, algorithmic rage incentives, smartphone-era mental health and nihilism, gender patterns in attacks, and redefining success and meaning amid uncertainty.

00:00 Podcast Welcome

01:04 Meet Elizabeth Neumann

02:13 When Threats Came Home

04:47 Fragile Communities Parallel

08:12 Beyond Ideology Labels

11:14 Defining Extremism Clearly

13:05 Hostile Action Spectrum

16:26 Tribalism and Belonging

18:31 Labels and Language Traps

22:21 Harm Discourse Spiral

26:04 How People Disengage

29:26 Empathy With Boundaries

31:47 Daryl Davis Example

34:15 Empathy and Backstory

36:00 Why Rage Spreads

39:12 Always Online Effects

42:04 From Outrage to Violence

45:16 Taking Back Control

46:25 Gender and Extremism

52:01 Meaning and Uncertainty

01:00:00 Redefining Success

01:05:27 Values and Hopeful Paths

01:07:11 Where to Find Elizabeth

01:08:06 Closing Credits

Resources

Read Elizabeth’s book Kingdom of Rage and follow her on Substack, where she writes the newsletter, Courageous Faith.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 42: The Civic Art of Parenting

Lauren Hall — Mon, 02 Mar 2026 13:00:00 GMT

In the final episode of their parenting series, hosts Laura Forcum and Lauren Hall recap conversations with Peter Gray, Darby Saxby, and Helen Roy, focusing on what it would mean to take care seriously in a culture that undervalues and genders care. They discuss how care has become siloed and often invisible through professionalization, regulation, and divided civic spaces, with COVID highlighting schools as major providers of childcare. They argue that weakened communal networks and heightened risk aversion reduce alloparenting, limit children’s practice navigating different rules, and contribute to passivity and reliance on authority. Linking self-knowledge, intuition, and agency to civic health, they emphasize cultivating agency through habits, discomfort, chores, and solitude, aiming for flourishing rather than comfort, and close by recommending prior episodes and sharing family milestones.

00:00 Final Episode Setup

01:37 Why Care Matters

04:44 Punch the Monkey Lesson

10:10 COVID Revealed Childcare

12:18 Care in Public Spaces

15:18 Small Town Responsibility

17:29 Losing Care Skills

21:03 Regulation Makes Help Hard

24:58 Alloparenting and Risk

27:09 Discipline and Flexibility

32:58 Self Trust and Authority

35:46 Judging Law as Citizens

37:57 Intuition and Power

39:37 Agency Against Authority

43:49 Systems That Train Compliance

46:21 Civic Solitude and Boredom

49:22 Parenting for Values

59:06 Flourishing Not Comfort

01:01:11 Civic Mindset at Home

01:02:46 Wrap Up and Gratitude

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 41: Helen Roy on Parenting, Care Feminism, and Human Dignity

Lauren Hall — Mon, 23 Feb 2026 13:00:00 GMT

Lura and Lauren welcome writer and mother of four Helen Roy of Helen Roy Writes to the podcast We Made This Political for their parenting month series. Roy describes how her early work as an analyst at the Defense Intelligence Agency, graduate study in Western moral tradition and Aristotle’s virtue ethics, and concern about national identity and lack of grand strategy led her to see the family as a basic unit of civilization and parenting as work with deep civic meaning. She shares how meeting her husband (her first Bumble date) shifted her view of family life, and emphasizes that raising a family can be central without diminishing intellectual or professional work. The conversation turns to Roy’s “Call Your Mom” advice series and her view of feminism, which she identifies as “care feminism” and “Catholic feminism,” drawing in part from radical Black feminist legacies that center care as legitimate economic, spiritual, and politically significant work. They discuss care as protection and resistance, including examples from the history of Black midwifery, and criticize contemporary conservative anti-feminist arguments that dismiss feminism by redefining it narrowly while taking for granted feminist achievements such as age-of-consent reforms and legal protections. Roy argues misogyny remains present in culture and politics, citing public reactions and comments around the Epstein files as attempts to minimize women’s anger and enforce silence. Roy explains how these convictions shape her parenting: teaching daughters not to abandon themselves, cultivating attention to inner voice and God’s voice, reinforcing bodily integrity by not forcing affection, and protecting boundaries around children’s bodies. She describes writing advice in the voice she herself needed—offering mentorship and insisting romantic love should imitate divine love. Roy also reflects on her movement away from rigid, black-and-white thinking, saying early motherhood—especially a traumatic birth experience and health consequences from rigid breastfeeding ideals—humbled her and pushed her toward moderation and complexity. The episode closes with Roy’s view that optimism is both natural and a deliberate choice, echoing her mother’s note that “optimism is a force multiplier,” and she shares where listeners can find her work on Substack and Instagram.

00:00 Welcome to the Podcast + Meet Helen Roy

01:56 Parenting as Civic Life: When Family Becomes Political

02:34 From National Security to Aristotle: Family as the Unit of Civilization

07:06 Meaning in the Concrete: Grand Strategy, Faith, and Subsidiarity

09:25 Is There a ‘Helen Roy Feminism’? Introducing Care Feminism

15:21 Care as Resistance: Black Midwifery and the Politics of Protection

18:04 Why Feminism Still Matters: Rights, History, and Conservative Anti-Feminism

23:53 Women’s Work in Religion & the New Pushback on Women’s Humanity

28:49 Misogyny in Plain Sight: Epstein Files, ‘Smile More,’ and Silencing Women

35:40 Parenting Daughters (and Sons) with Human Dignity in Mind

36:43 Parenting Girls in an Unfair World (and What We Do to Boys Too)

37:33 Raising Kids Not to Abandon Themselves: Inner Voice, God’s Voice & Boundaries

39:53 Body Integrity & Intuition as a ‘Superpower’

42:01 ‘You’re Made for So Much More’: Emotional & Spiritual Integrity in Love

43:32 Writing Advice as Mentorship: The Voice She Needed Growing Up

46:33 Rejecting ‘Pottery Barn Catholicism’ & Fundamentalist Mommy Culture

50:42 Radical Moderation: Escaping Gender Binaries and One-Brand Feminism

52:37 From Extremes to Humility: Motherhood, Trauma, and Letting Go of Certainty

58:08 Grace, Control, and Being ‘Broken Open’ (With or Without Kids)

59:34 Optimism as a Choice: Hope, Destiny, and Closing Reflections

Resources

Helen’s amazing Substack is here: https://helenroy.substack.com/about

Ep. 40: Darby Saxbe on Fatherhood, Alloparenting, and What Really Drives Birth Rates

Lauren Hall — Mon, 16 Feb 2026 13:00:00 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host an episode of We Made This Political featuring clinical psychologist and USC professor Darby Saxbe, whose research focuses on the transition to parenthood, fathers’ roles, and how family relationships shape mental and physical health. The conversation covers alloparenting and humans as cooperative breeders, arguing that shared caregiving and community support are central to healthy parenting and maternal mental health. They discuss how modern U.S. life—built environments, isolation, intensive parenting norms, and limited policy supports—raises stress for parents and may deter family formation. Saxbe notes evidence across OECD countries that higher male contributions to housework and parenting are positively correlated with birth rates, and argues that coercive or women-disadvantaging pronatalist approaches are counterproductive, citing Romania as a warning. They critique polarized “trad wife vs. girl boss” framings, discuss the Heritage Foundation’s pronatalist messaging and gender-hostile narratives, and also acknowledge left-leaning cultural messages that can shade into hostility toward families. The episode touches on marriage declines, men’s increasing time with children, the influence of manosphere content on boys, and the importance of raising boys to be capable partners through non-gendered expectations around care and domestic labor. They compare child-friendliness across countries (including Denmark, Sweden, Spain, South Korea, and Mexico), emphasizing public spaces, zoning, and liability structures that shape family life. Saxbe closes with cautious optimism that current political and cultural turbulence could lead to renewed valuing of care, and the hosts encourage listeners to read Saxbe’s Substack Natal Gazing and pre-order her upcoming book on the neurobiology of fatherhood.

00:00 Birth Rates & the Case for Dads Doing More at Home

00:47 Meet the Hosts + Introducing Psychologist Darby Saxbe

02:18 Why Study Fatherhood? Darby’s Origin Story

04:38 Alloparenting 101: Humans as Cooperative Breeders

08:50 Isolation, “What’s Natural,” and the Myth of the 1950s Family

11:33 The Rise of Intensive Parenting (and Why It’s Crushing Parents)

15:28 What’s Really Behind Falling Birth Rates? Money, Stress, and Gender Roles

17:47 Pronatalism vs Antinatalism: How Family Became a Culture-War Issue

25:01 Toxic Narratives on Right and Left: Tradwife vs Girlboss

30:36 Where Are the Men? Fatherhood, Marriage, and the Manosphere

34:04 A Better Model in Academia: When Leadership Supports Parents

34:30 No Parental Leave Policy: Finding an Ally in the Department Chair

35:43 Why Parent Representation in Politics Shapes Family Policy

36:22 When Maternity Leave Depends on One Mentor (and Why That’s a Problem)

37:29 Suspicion Toward Moms, Praise for Dads: The Cultural Double Standard

39:34 Policy Isn’t Everything: Sweden, Incentives, and the Need for Culture Change

41:00 The Real Tradeoffs of Parenting + Where Kids Do (and Don’t) Belong

44:20 South Korea’s No-Kids Signs vs. Mexico’s Child-Delight Culture

48:48 What Family-Friendly Cities Look Like: Denmark, Sweden, Barcelona, Austria

52:48 Zoning, Liability, and the Case for More ‘Beer Gardens with Playgrounds’

55:08 Raising Boys Today: Algorithms, Masculinity, and Teaching Self-Sufficiency

01:00:33 Optimism, Plugs, and Farewell: Care, Realignment, and the New Book

Resources:

Pre-order Darby’s book Dad Brain, coming in June.

Read her current work on her Substack Natal Gazing.

Some other great thinkers on biology and parenting:

Sarah Blaffer Hrdy’s books Mother Nature and Mothers and Others

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 39: The Politics of Play with Peter Gray

Lauren Hall — Mon, 09 Feb 2026 13:00:00 GMT

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by Peter Gray, research psychologist and professor emeritus at Boston College, to discuss the crucial role of play in human development and education. Peter shares insights from his studies on the impact of unstructured play, autonomy, and curiosity on children’s psychological well-being and learning. Through personal anecdotes and research findings, the conversation explores how current schooling systems quash curiosity and independence, and suggests ways parents can foster a more play-driven and exploratory environment for their children at home. This episode is a deep dive into understanding how play and freedom influence growth, independence, and lifelong happiness.

00:00 The Power of Curiosity

00:43 Introduction of Hosts and Guest

01:30 Peter Gray’s Background and Influence

03:30 The Concept of ‘Good Enough’ Parenting

04:10 Peter Gray’s Journey into Play Research

05:48 The Sudbury Valley School Experience

09:06 Observational Study on Play

14:01 Evolutionary Perspective on Play and Learning

21:19 Challenges in Modern Education and Parenting

32:59 The Flaws of Traditional Schooling

33:40 The Power of Play in Career Development

35:46 Misalignment of Career Aspirations and Interests

40:07 The Increasing Burden of School on Children

43:35 The Criminalization of Common Sense Parenting

50:54 The Democratic Nature of Play

58:58 Optimism for the Future of Education

01:03:11 Final Thoughts and Encouragement for Parents

Resources

Peter Gray’s Substack Play Makes Us Human

Peter’s book Free to Learn

Let Grow website, with resources for families, schools, and policymakers on fostering independent play

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 38: Rob Feld on Jesters, Fools, and Cancel Culture

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Rob Feld — Mon, 02 Feb 2026 13:00:00 GMT

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host documentary filmmaker Rob Feld. The conversation delves into the increasing polarization in American politics and public discourse, highlighting the impact of social media and algorithms. Rob shares insights from his film ‘Jesters and Fools,’ which uses comedians to explore polarization, cancel culture and self-censorship. Topics include the roles of outrage and anger in comedy, the challenges of civil discourse in higher education, and parenting in the digital age. The episode also touches on the importance of engaging with those who hold differing views to foster understanding and move past divisions.

00:00 Introduction to Political Centrism and Extremism

00:53 Meet the Hosts: Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall

02:05 Introducing Rob Feld: Documentary Filmmaker

02:38 The Making of ‘Jesters and Fools’

08:19 The Role of Comedians in Discussing Polarization

17:44 Impact of Social Media on Public Discourse

19:23 Challenges in Higher Education and Free Speech

27:28 Navigating Online and Offline Interactions

36:46 The Impact of Online Echo Chambers

38:08 Parenting in the Age of Social Media

45:00 The Role of Outrage in Comedy

52:39 The Importance of Free Speech and Civic Dialogue

01:01:50 Hope and Optimism in a Polarized World

Resources

More about Jesters and Fools, including how to schedule a screening.

Find out more about Rob and his production studio Gotham Arts.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 37: Emma Addams on Faith and Ethical Governance

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Mon, 26 Jan 2026 13:00:00 GMT

In this episode of We Made This Political, Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with Emma Adams, founder and co-executive director of Mormon Women for Ethical Government (MWEG). Emma shares her journey from refugee resettlement volunteer to leading a national organization advocating for ethical governance.

The discussion covers MWEG’s mission, peacemaking principles, and fostering bipartisan cooperation. The episode offers insights on navigating political and social conflicts with dignity, understanding, and practical skills for resilience and change.

00:00 Introduction and Hosts’ Backgrounds

00:49 Guest Introduction: Emma Adams

02:02 Emma’s Journey to Advocacy

03:31 Founding of Mormon Women for Ethical Government

06:34 MWEG’s Mission and Advocacy Areas

08:17 Empowering Women in Leadership

16:09 Peacemaking and Conflict Transformation

20:22 Navigating Political Identity and Engagement

26:20 Challenges and Criticisms of Radical Moderation

35:13 Skills Building and Philosophy

37:02 Parenting and Professional Life

39:55 Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Parenting

43:45 Political Violence and Community Response

59:38 Hope and Optimism in Challenging Times

Resources

Mormon Women For Ethical Government

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 36: Shannon Watson on Minnesota, Self-Governance, and Relationship-Building

Lauren Hall — Mon, 19 Jan 2026 13:00:00 GMT

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lauren Hall and Laura Forcum welcome back Shannon Watson, a civic leader from Minnesota, to discuss the current political climate in the state. They explore how Minnesotans are coping with federal interventions, the challenges of polarization, and the importance of local engagement and community resilience. Shannon shares insights on the nuanced reality of Minnesota, highlighting the state’s high civic participation and the critical role of relationship building in addressing political divides. The conversation also touches on the importance of peaceful protest, the rule of law, and efforts to bridge gaps through organizations like Majority in the Middle and What We Can Do Week.

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts

01:44 Welcoming Shannon Watson

03:07 Current Political Climate in Minnesota

07:09 Community Engagement and Civic Participation

08:50 Challenges and Emotions Amidst Political Tensions

18:19 Protests and Legal Boundaries

30:36 Law Enforcement and Public Perception

31:57 Behind the Scenes Efforts to Deescalate

33:17 The Importance of Full Investigations

34:14 Law Enforcement and Public Trust

40:56 The Role of Community Organizations

47:45 Building Relationships and Trust

53:16 The Power of Breaking Bread

56:52 Hope and Resilience in Challenging Times

58:37 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

More Resources

The Civic Pledge is at www.whatwecandoweek.org/pledge

Find Majority in the Middle at www.majoritymiddle.org

If you’d like to support Shannon’s depolarization work at Majority in the Middle, consider donating in honor of her birthday at www.majoritymiddle.org/51

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 35 WMTP: Josh Lewis on the Future of Classical Conservatism

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Josh Lewis — Mon, 12 Jan 2026 13:00:00 GMT

Show Notes:

Episode 35: Josh Lewis on Classical Conservatism in a MAGA World

Guest: Josh Lewis, founder of Saving Elephants podcast and blog

About Josh:Josh Lewis is a CPA and longtime student of conservative thought who founded Saving Elephants to reignite classical conservatism as a tradition rooted in prudence, gratitude, and community—rather than populism or personality-driven politics. He brings a practical, institution-focused perspective on how enduring conservative ideas can address polarization, civic decay, and the pressures facing younger generations.

Episode Summary:In this wide-ranging conversation, hosts Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum discuss the meaning of conservatism in 2025 with Josh Lewis. They explore why political labels have become more tribal than informative, the unique challenges millennials face in understanding conservative principles, and why prudence has been replaced by winning in modern politics. Josh shares his personal journey of stepping down from state Republican Party leadership in 2016 and offers insights on how we might rebuild a politics centered on long-term thinking rather than short-term gains.

Key Topics Discussed:

Political Labels & Identity

* Why “conservative” is so contested in 2025

* How labels have shifted from informative to tribal and dehumanizing

* The contextual nature of conservatism vs universal ideologies

* Being “politically homeless” in modern America

Millennials & Conservatism

* Why millennials formed their understanding of conservatism during the Bush era

* The impact of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars and 2008 financial crisis on conservative credibility

* How millennials bridge the analog and digital worlds

* The unique economic challenges facing younger generations

Generational Economics

* The structural decisions that created barriers to economic prosperity

* Why “playing by the same rules” doesn’t guarantee the same outcomes anymore

* The role of credentialing, regulation, and crony capitalism

* Student debt and the ecosystem that encouraged it

* Growing inequality within the millennial generation

Prudence vs Winning

* How winning replaced prudence as the core conservative value

* The “invasion of the body snatchers” moment in the Republican Party

* Why prudence requires thinking beyond our own lifetimes

* The tension between conservatism and democracy’s short-term focus

* How conservative institutions (Senate, judiciary) were designed to slow democracy

Trump & the Republican Party

* Josh’s 2016 decision to step down from Republican Party leadership

* The hostile takeover and subsequent transformation of the party

* Finding fellow travelers and maintaining relationships across disagreements

* The distortion field effect of Trump’s demand for loyalty

Structural Reforms

* Removing TV cameras from Senate chambers

* Expanding the House of Representatives

* Reforming the filibuster to require physical presence

* The need for Congress to reclaim its constitutional role

* Why feedback channels in democracy are being cut off

Conservative Intellectual Tradition

* Edmund Burke as the central figure in conservative thought

* Yuval Levin as an accessible modern conservative thinker

* The importance of understanding the French Revolution debates

* Russell Kirk, Thomas Sowell, and William F. Buckley Jr.

* Reading list: 50 conservative thinkers worth your time

Reasons for Optimism

* Unprecedented reduction in global poverty

* Technological and economic progress in recent centuries

* The importance of recognizing how well we’re doing historically

* The risk of losing progress by pretending “we’ve never had it this bad”

Key Quotes:

* “I often tell people I’m a classical conservative in hopes that will throw them off enough to think, well, that adjective’s probably doing a lot of work here.”

* “Conservatism is almost entirely contextual. What are we conserving? I’m not trying to conserve the Ottoman Empire of the 16th century—I’m trying to conserve the American tradition.”

* “We use political labels as shorthand almost exclusively to either say you are on my team, or I don’t like you.”

* “Prudence is not just cold calculating what this is going to get me in the future. It’s wedded to a sense of morals and requires humility and sacrifice.”

* “The modern Republican party has fallen victim to exactly the same kinds of tendencies in democracy that it previously criticized.”

Connect with Josh:

* Saving Elephants podcast and blog (savingelephantsblog.com)

* Edmund Burke’s “Reflections on the Revolution in France”

Resources Mentioned:

* Russell Kirk’s “The Conservative Mind” and “10 Principles of Conservatism”

* Yuval Levin’s “The Great Debate,” “The Fractured Republic,” and “American Covenant”

* Thomas Sowell’s writings

* Jonah Goldberg’s “Suicide of the West”

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 34: Russ Greene on Total Boomer Luxury Communism

Lauren Hall — Mon, 05 Jan 2026 13:00:00 GMT

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall engage with Russ Green, managing director of Prime Mover Institute, on the impending crisis of social security and Medicare entitlements in America. They discuss the significant automatic cuts expected by 2033, the misallocation of resources benefiting wealthier retirees at the expense of the younger generation, and the urgent need for reform. Russ shares insights on how current policies unfairly burden young people, offering solutions aimed at a more just distribution of benefits. The conversation touches on broader themes of political division, fiscal responsibility, and the necessity of bipartisan efforts to address looming financial challenges. The episode emphasizes the interplay of justice, political discourse, and economic reality in shaping a sustainable future.

00:00 Introduction to Social Security Cuts

01:00 Meet the Hosts and Guest

01:53 Overview of Boomer Luxury Communism

02:53 The Misconceptions and Realities of Social Security

05:02 Generational Conflicts and Economic Implications

08:31 The Need for Entitlement Reform

13:42 Challenges in Addressing Social Security Issues

17:50 Political and Economic Consequences

26:01 International Comparisons and Broader Implications

30:10 Healthcare Spending and Its Impact

31:36 Social Security and Wealth Transfer

34:41 Political Incentives and Reform Challenges

37:21 Framing Economic Issues in Moral Terms

40:32 Generational Perspectives on Economic Policies

46:07 The Role of Political Discourse in Society

54:54 Optimism for Future Generational Change

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 33 Musa al-Gharbi Part II

Lauren Hall — Mon, 22 Dec 2025 13:00:00 GMT

In part two of their conversation with Musa Al-Gharbi, Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall explore the future of universities, the impact of AI on faculty, and the sociopolitical dynamics affecting higher education. They discuss the overproduction of PhDs, the exploitative conditions of adjunct faculty, and the erosion of trust in academic and media institutions. The episode delves into how systemic issues in academia and journalism are misrepresented, the role of social and economic class in DEI initiatives, and the importance of nuanced, local conversations to address complex social problems. Al-Gharbi emphasizes the necessity of giving marginalized communities a real voice in institutions to rebuild trust and serve society more equitably. The session also highlights practical steps for fostering inclusive and productive dialogues across political and social divides.

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

01:28 The Future of Universities and AI

03:14 The Crisis in Higher Education

08:35 Trust in Experts and Institutions

15:46 Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Initiatives

22:27 Challenges in Representing Marginalized Voices

32:56 Local vs. National Conversations on Policy

41:33 Closing Thoughts and Optimism

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 32 Musa al-Gharbi on Why We Have Never Been Woke

Lauren Hall — Mon, 15 Dec 2025 13:00:00 GMT

The Complex Trust Dilemma: Engaging Expert Perspectives with Musa Albi

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Laura Ham and Lauren Hall dive into the complex dynamics of institutional trust with sociologist Musa al-Gharbi. Musa’s book, ‘We Have Never Been Woke,’ which critiques the gap between elite discourse and lived realities, serves as a focal point for discussing the mistrust of experts. The conversation explores Musa’s unique perspective of being an insider-outsider in the academic world, the limitations of symbolic capitalists, and the often overlooked voices of disadvantaged communities. The episode underscores the nuanced challenges and potential opportunities in addressing social inequalities through a critical examination of how elite professions operate.

00:00 Introduction: Why People Mistrust Experts

00:52 Meet the Hosts and Today’s Guest

01:58 Introducing Musa al-Gharbi and His Work

02:37 The Journey of Writing ‘We Have Never Been Woke’

07:42 Defining Symbolic Capitalists

09:17 Reception and Criticism of the Book

16:26 The Role of Language in Social Justice

25:41 The Disconnect Between Symbolic Capitalists and Social Justice

34:58 The Power Dynamics of Symbolic Capitalists

47:07 The Wealth Transfer Dilemma

More Resources

How to order Musa’s book: https://musaalgharbi.com/paperback-edition-we-have-never-been-woke/

A deep dive on the data behind DEI programs and how we might do them better: https://musaalgharbi.com/2020/09/16/diversity-important-related-training-terrible/

A great intro article from Musa’s Substack:

An essay on Musa’s point about selective

Musa’s excellent postmortem on the 2024 election:

A We Have Never Been Woke FAQ, including why taxing billionaires isn’t the silver bullet often claimed:

More info on the next book “Those People”:

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 31: Navigating Narcissism in Politics

Lauren Hall — Mon, 08 Dec 2025 13:00:00 GMT

Hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall discuss the detrimental effects of narcissism in the political landscape on this episode of ‘We Made This Political.’ Drawing on our backgrounds in political science, psychology, and experiences as parents, we relate the dynamics of abusive personal relationships to those in politics. We explore how political elites exploit voters, highlighting issues like gerrymandering, lack of reciprocity, and the manipulation of policy issues for political gain. The episode emphasizes the need for voters to demand more from their political representatives and the importance of breaking the cycle of dysfunctional political relationships.

00:00 Introduction and Hosts’ Backgrounds

01:33 Series on Political Abuse

02:26 Narcissism in Politics

03:18 Workplace Narcissism and Politics

06:23 Reciprocity in Social and Political Systems

10:23 Narcissistic Political Relationships

19:04 Incentives Against Solving Problems

24:17 The Illiberal System and Voter Disillusionment

25:56 The Distortion of Primaries and Gerrymandering

27:58 Challenges in Political Representation

30:51 Incentives and Burnout in Politics

31:22 The Struggles of Women in Politics

32:38 The Pipeline Problem and Congressional Exit

38:40 The Role of Independent Voters

39:56 The Extractive Nature of Power

43:19 Optimism and Community Engagement

45:42 Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 30: Lura and Lauren on Writing and Resistance

Lauren Hall — Mon, 01 Dec 2025 13:00:00 GMT

In this episode, Lura and Lauren dive into their writing processes, discussing how to utilize the mental downtime during the holidays for ideation. They explore strategies for overcoming resistance, the psychology behind creative bursts, and the importance of protecting one’s mental space for self-reflection and creativity. Both emphasize the significance of capturing ideas and using AI tools productively. They share personal journeys, including handling academic criticism and the challenges of balancing work, family, and creative pursuits. The discussion also touches on how to harness everyday activities, like chopping onions or walking, to foster insight and progress in writing. Join Lura and Lauren as they offer practical tips for writers and creatives, encouraging listeners to make space for their own ideas while also finding time to rest this holiday season.

00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview

00:18 The Writing Process and Ideation Time

01:59 Cal Newport’s Deep Work and Creative Insights

05:21 Overcoming Resistance in Academic Writing

11:09 Dealing with Rejection and Negative Feedback

17:34 The Self as a Resource and Protecting Your Creative Space

21:24 Balancing Reading and Writing in Academic Work

29:48 Protecting the Self in Writing

30:10 Kurt Gray’s Insights on Self and Conflict

31:33 Buddhist Approach to Self and Writing

33:14 Challenges of Writing in the Age of Algorithms

35:12 The Importance of Process Over Outcome

37:49 Writing Projects and Inspirations

40:47 Letters to My Daughters

45:05 Memento Mori and Creative Constraints

48:50 Using Voice Memos and AI for Writing

56:35 Gratitude and Thanksgiving Plans

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 29: Thanksgiving Special with Kurt Gray on Outrage

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Kurt Gray — Mon, 24 Nov 2025 13:00:00 GMT

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with Kurt Gray, author of ‘Outraged.’ They explore strategies for managing political conversations with family during Thanksgiving, emphasizing the importance of connection, curiosity, and validation to prevent conflict. The conversation delves into the social psychology of outrage, the impact of tribalism, and practical tips for maintaining calm and constructive dialogue during the holiday season.

00:00 Introduction and Opening Thoughts

00:36 Meet the Hosts and Guest

01:43 Introducing Kurt Gray and His Work

02:54 Handling Political Conversations with Family

04:46 The Role of Curiosity in Conversations

08:22 Physiological Responses to Outrage

15:24 Parenting and Managing Big Feelings

17:17 The Importance of Validation in Conversations

21:07 Legitimate Outrage vs. Reactive Outrage

26:16 Perceptions of Harm and Moral Condemnation

30:24 Setting Ground Rules for Difficult Conversations

31:29 The Importance of Beginnings

31:51 Communication Patterns in Families

32:16 Mark Rober’s Friendly Car Horn

33:06 Social Engineering and Road Rage

34:05 The Power of Asking Questions

35:31 Parenting and Moral Emotions

37:00 Relinquishing the Self in Conversations

38:05 Navigating Anger and De-escalation

42:18 Tribalism and Affective Polarization

47:50 Practical Tips for Holiday Conversations

59:37 Optimism in One-on-One Interactions

01:01:56 Conclusion and Where to Find More

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 28, Part II: Shaka Mitchell's Path to Connection

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Shaka Mitchell — Wed, 19 Nov 2025 17:49:40 GMT

This is Part II of our conversation with Shaka Mitchell of the Come Together Music Project. If you haven’t listened to Part I, go listen there first and the come back here. In this episode we talk to Shaka about the genesis and journey of the Come Together Music project. Inspired during the height of COVID-19, this initiative leverages music to foster connection and understanding in a divided world. From intimate song swap sessions to large public events, Shaka explains how music can be a powerful tool for building relationships and bridging divides. The conversation also delves into personal stories, including surprising insights from a session with Arizona Supreme Court justices, and explores the transformative power of music-making.

00:00 Introduction and Hosts’ Backgrounds

01:00 Origins of the Song Swap Idea

03:05 The Power of Music in Building Connections

05:55 Developing the Format and Future Plans

08:27 Music as a Tool for Bridging Divides

17:00 Surprising Insights from Guests

24:58 Closing Thoughts and Optimism

26:45 Where to Find More Information

More Resources

Shaka’s Substack

The Come Together Music Project Podcast on Spotify

Shaka on music and healing divides on Medium

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 28, Part I: Shaka Mitchell on Music and Community

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Shaka Mitchell — Mon, 17 Nov 2025 13:00:00 GMT

This episode of We Made This Political is cross-posted with the Come Together Music Project, co-hosted with Shaka Mitchell. Together we explore the intersection of politics, parenting, and personal stories through music. We dive into songs that remind us of friends, parenting theme songs, and classic protest anthems, revealing surprising connections and deep insights along the way.

00:00 Introduction to the Hosts and Podcast

00:52 Welcome to the Come Together Music Project

02:33 Musical Memories: Songs That Remind Us of Friends

15:24 Parenting Theme Songs: Music That Defines Our Parenting Journey

28:12 Parenting Reflections and Daddy Lessons

29:33 Preparing Girls for the Future

30:49 The Complexity of Raising Daughters

32:06 Parenting Playlist and Final Thoughts

32:54 Protest Songs and Their Impact

34:38 Bob Dylan’s Timeless Protest Anthem

41:51 Rage Against the Machine’s Renegades of Funk

46:22 Billy Bragg and Woody Guthrie’s Unwelcome Guest

53:20 Final Reflections and Surprises

58:35 Conclusion and Podcast Information

More Resources

Shaka’s Substack

The Come Together Music Project Podcast on Spotify

Shaka on music and healing divides on Medium

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 27: Lenore Skenazy on Free Range Kids, Parenting, and Polarization

Lauren Hall — Mon, 10 Nov 2025 13:00:00 GMT

Takeaways

Lenore Skenazy is a journalist and founder of Let Grow.

Over-parenting leads to increased anxiety in children.

Children need opportunities to develop agency and competence.

Cultural shifts have changed how we view parenting and risk.

Legal frameworks often hinder childhood independence.

Play is essential for children’s development and learning.

Parents should encourage independence through practical steps.

The societal implications of over-parenting are significant.

Schools play a crucial role in fostering independence in children.

Community support is vital for changing parenting norms.

Summary

In this conversation, Lauren and Lura talk with Lenore Skenazy to discuss the impact of over-parenting on children’s development, emphasizing the importance of fostering independence and resilience. Skenazy highlights the cultural shifts that have led to increased anxiety among children and the role of schools and legal frameworks in shaping parenting practices. Skenazy advocates for practical steps parents can take to encourage independence in their children, including the importance of play and agency. The discussion also touches on the societal implications of over-parenting and the need for community support in changing parenting norms.

Sound bites

“Everything’s fine.”

“Parents get anxious, kids get anxious.”

“When adults step back, kids step up.”

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Lenore Skenazy and Free Range Kids

02:59 The Impact of Over-Parenting on Children

05:55 Navigating Anxiety in Modern Youth

08:58 The Role of Agency and Competence in Childhood

11:56 The Misunderstanding of Safety and Risk

15:03 Legislative Efforts for Childhood Independence

17:59 The Future of Parenting and Independence

21:54 The Impact of Socioeconomic Factors on Parenting

26:56 Cultural Perceptions of Safety and Parenting

30:54 Empowering Parents to Step Back

35:06 The Importance of Free Play in Child Development

38:55 Empowering Independence in Children

39:24 The Role of Play in Civic Education

41:18 The Importance of Self-Governance

42:05 The Power of Play and Collaboration

44:58 Natural Learning vs. Instruction

46:33 The Flaws in Teaching Methods

49:33 Burnout in Education and Parenting

51:10 Trusting Children to Learn

52:08 Resources for Fostering Independence

Ep. 26: Laura Field on the Making of the MAGA New Right

Lauren Hall — Mon, 03 Nov 2025 13:00:00 GMT

Furious Minds and the State of Modern Conservatism

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by Laura K. Field, a political theorist and author of the forthcoming book ‘Furious Minds: The Making of the MAGA New Right.’ They discuss the intellectual currents shaping the American right, the state of modern conservatism, and the potential dangers of current political trends. The conversation also covers the roles and challenges of women within conservative circles and the importance of engaging across political divides.

00:00 Introduction and Hosts’ Backgrounds

00:55 Guest Introduction: Laura Field

01:58 Discussing ‘Furious Minds’ and Its Origins

03:13 The Straussian Influence and Conservative Education

04:08 The Rise of Trump and Intellectual Shifts

05:38 Conservative Ideals vs. Modern Realities

10:28 The Radicalization of the Right

21:22 Dehumanization and Political Tactics

31:52 Conservative Rhetoric and Future Ambitions

35:11 Women in Conservative Circles

37:32 Exploring Masculinity in Conservative Movements

38:07 The Role and Status of Women in Conservative Spaces

38:35 Personal Reflections on Gender and Feminism

40:46 Misogyny in Right-Wing Populism

43:30 Philosophical Debates on Gender Equality

48:14 The Crisis of Masculinity and Political Implications

55:24 The Importance of Engagement and Dialogue

01:03:18 Optimism and Final Thoughts

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 25: Wilk Wilkinson on Citizen Courage in an Age of Divides

Lauren Hall — Mon, 27 Oct 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall explore the importance of face-to-face interactions in politics with guest Wilk Wilkinson, host of the ‘Derate The Hate’ podcast. Wilk shares his journey of replacing division with understanding, influenced by his background in transportation and operations management. He talks about his work with Braver Angels, a grassroots cross-partisan movement, and emphasizes the need for better communication and courageous citizenship. The conversation covers the significance of personal engagement, the challenges in the bridging space, and how fostering real-world interactions can lead to a more united society.

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

01:04 Guest Introduction: Wilk Wilkinson

02:24 Wilk’s Journey to ‘Derate The Hate’

06:28 The Impact of Podcasting and Positive Conversations

08:33 Addressing Toxic Polarization and Bridging Divides

20:16 Challenges in the Bridging Space

27:36 Encouraging Civic Engagement and Real-Life Interactions

32:29 The Importance of Face-to-Face Interactions

34:29 Overcoming Anxiety and Building Confidence

36:11 Misconceptions and Political Divides

39:46 The Power of Everyday Interactions

44:02 Lessons from Personal Experiences

48:37 Parenting and Curiosity

54:34 Challenges in Political Systems

56:45 Leadership and Human Connection

01:01:35 Hope for a United Future

More Resources:

Listen to Wilk’s podcast here: https://deratethehate.com/

Find a local Braver Angels chapter and get involved here: https://braverangels.org/

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 24: Gaslighting, Trauma Bonds, and America's Co-Dependent Politics

Lauren Hall — Mon, 20 Oct 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall delve into the pervasive toxicity within modern politics. They draw parallels between the features of abusive personal relationships and the current political system, highlighting concepts like gaslighting, narcissism, isolation, and trauma bonding. The duo discusses how the two major political parties manipulate voters through fear, control, and intermittent reinforcement, maintaining a cycle of abuse and disillusionment. They propose solutions like embracing non-binary thinking, forming coalitions, and demanding real solutions to reclaim a sense of agency and accountability. Their insightful conversation aims to transform how we engage with politics, emphasizing flourishing and relationship-building over power and division.

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

00:52 Exploring the Toxicity of Politics

01:25 Relationship Metaphors in Politics

03:38 Gaslighting in Politics

22:51 Political Narcissism and Abuse of Power

29:01 Trauma Bonding with Political Parties

31:46 Survivors’ Reactions to Crisis

32:37 Parenting and Political Choices

33:31 Attachment Theory and Politics

35:51 Ingroup and Outgroup Dynamics

38:09 Breaking the Cycle of Political Abuse

40:50 Boundaries and Accountability in Politics

45:45 Demanding Real Solutions from Politicians

52:09 The Role of Media in Political Dynamics

55:36 Optimism and Positive Directions

01:02:07 Closing Thoughts and Call to Action

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 23 WMTP: Lee Drutman on Breaking the Two Party Doom Loop

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Lee Drutman — Tue, 14 Oct 2025 12:00:00 GMT

Breaking the Two-Party Doom Loop with Lee Drutman

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by political scientist Lee Drutman to discuss his insights on breaking the two-party doom loop in American politics. Drutman shares his journey into political science, the influence of business lobbying on Congress, and the centralization of power that contributes to hyperpartisan polarization. The conversation delves into how primary reforms and rank-choice voting fall short, advocating instead for proportional representation and fusion voting. They also touch on the importance of rebuilding community and social infrastructure to foster healthier democratic engagement. This episode provides a comprehensive look at the challenges and potential solutions to America’s political dysfunction.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

01:57 Lee Drutman’s Background and Career

04:56 The Influence of Lobbyists in Congress

08:57 The Two-Party Doom Loop

09:48 Gerrymandering and Political Polarization

21:37 The Role of Leadership and Dehumanization in Politics

28:14 The Impact of Corporate Lobbying on Polarization

31:09 Government Shutdowns and Political Strategy

36:19 Democrats’ Struggle with Messaging

37:41 Trump’s Transformation of the Republican Party

38:51 The Power of In-Group and Out-Group Dynamics

40:49 The Importance of Fun in Politics

44:41 Challenges of Coalition Management

52:56 The Need for Electoral Reform

56:26 Rebuilding Community and Social Infrastructure

01:07:21 The Complexity of Political Systems

01:09:33 Ending on a Hopeful Note

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 22 Andrew Heaton on Politics, Comedy, and Optimism

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Andrew Heaton — Mon, 06 Oct 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode, we welcome Andrew Heaton, host of The Political Orphanage podcast, comedian, and author of ‘Tribalism is Dumb.’ Lura introduces Andrew, who shares his journey from Capitol Hill staffer to political satirist and comedian. Andrew discusses the interplay of humor, politics, and tribalism, sharing anecdotes about his stand-up experiences and insights into how comedy can bridge political divides. The conversation touches on the challenges of political polarization, the role of humor in building trust, and the evolving nature of comedy in an age of affective polarization. The episode concludes with a hopeful note on humanity’s progress and potential for the future.

00:00 Welcome and Introduction of Andrew Heaton

00:49 Heaton’s Journey: From Comedy to Politics

01:40 The Rise of Tribalism in Comedy and Politics

04:54 The Impact of Humor on Political Discourse

07:39 Navigating Offensive Humor and Intent

09:41 The Role of Political Humor in Media

21:41 Humor as a Tool for Building Trust and Connection

32:08 The Evolution of Comedy in a Polarized World

35:38 The Challenges of Political Satire

36:14 The Evolution of Political Comedy

37:14 Audience Reactions to Political Jokes

38:56 The Impact of Political Polarization

46:50 Gerrymandering and Political Representation

56:35 Optimism for the Future

01:04:40 Closing Remarks and Self-Promotion

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 21: Anastasia Boden on Economic Freedom

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Anastasia P. Boden — Mon, 29 Sep 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host civil rights attorney Anastasia Boden from the Pacific Legal Foundation. The discussion delves into the fundamental right to economic liberty and the challenges posed by burdensome economic regulations like certificate of need laws. Anastasia shares inspiring stories from her career advocating for entrepreneurs and small businesses, highlighting the human costs of unfair regulations and the transformative impact of legal advocacy. Tune in to explore how personal passion, legal expertise, and economic freedom intersect to promote flourishing communities.

00:00 Introduction to the American Dream and Economic Rights

01:02 Meet the Hosts and Guest Introduction

03:26 Anastasia Bowden’s Journey and Passion for Law

05:32 The Importance of Empathy in Law

07:10 The Role of Process and Procedure in Legal Systems

10:56 Economic Rights vs. Civil Rights

21:32 The Impact of Certificate of Need Laws

32:17 The Impact of Certificate of Need Laws

33:36 A Personal Story: Hasidic Women’s EMT Service

34:56 The Bipartisan Agreement on Certificate of Need Laws

37:52 Challenges in Repealing Entrenched Laws

42:03 The Regulatory Thicket and Its Impact on Small Businesses

45:59 The Courage of Entrepreneurs

47:12 The Role of Constitutional Lawsuits

51:49 The Human Cost of Regulations

59:29 Hope in Local Community Actions

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 20 WMTP: Lura and Lauren on Charlie Kirk and More

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Mon, 22 Sep 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode, Lura and Lauren delve into the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, discussing the multifaceted impact of his life and death. They explore the broader issues surrounding escalating political violence, the distinction between free speech and civil discourse, and the dangers of dehumanizing opponents. The conversation shifts to the manipulation tactics used in political rhetoric and the crisis facing young men today. They reflect on the societal and psychological factors contributing to these trends, emphasizing the importance of understanding, empathy, and building relationships. Despite the challenging topics, they offer a hopeful perspective on the resilience of everyday kindness and the role of personal agency in fostering positive interactions.

00:00 Introduction and Overview

00:07 Discussing Charlie Kirk's Assassination

02:04 Public Figures and Perception

03:56 Speech, Harm, and Political Violence

05:52 Dehumanization and Empathy

08:08 Manipulation and Tribalism

09:01 Ideological Violence and Alienation

11:07 Complexity of Political Beliefs

14:14 Youth Alienation and Radicalization

21:14 Cancel Culture and Free Speech

25:26 Factions and Freedom

26:53 Conservative Contradictions and Political Hypocrisy

27:55 The Importance of Experiencing Opposing Views

29:14 First Amendment and Free Speech

29:46 The Role of the Supreme Court in Protecting Speech

30:28 Government Pressure on Private Entities

33:54 Polarization and Tribalism in Politics

37:16 The Need for Genuine Conversations

46:26 The Impact of Political Identity on Society

50:25 Hope for Civil Society and Positive Interactions

Additional Resources

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 19: Jeff Mayhugh on Representation and Who is in the Room

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Jeff Mayhugh — Mon, 15 Sep 2025 12:00:00 GMT

Expanding Representation: A Conversation with Jeff Mayhugh

Join hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall in this episode of 'We Made This Political' as they engage in a dynamic discussion with Jeff Mayhugh, author of the Politics and Parenting Substack. Jeff, a political theorist, poet, and small business owner, shares his thoughts on the need to expand the House of Representatives to better serve the American populace. Drawing from his personal journey, Jeff elaborates on the current challenges in political representation, his advocacy through the No Cap Fund, and the parallels between political leadership and parenting. The episode delves into the intricacies of representation, the unintended consequences of policy, and the importance of facilitating a government that truly listens and acts for its people.

00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Backgrounds

00:54 Introducing the Special Guest: Jeff

01:57 Jeff's Career Path and the No Cap Fund

07:18 The Concept of Representation

10:36 Challenges in Modern Representation

25:00 Historical Context and Modern Implications

34:35 The Importance of Diverse Voices in Governance

35:34 Historical Anecdotes and Representation

37:43 Challenges in Healthcare Representation

39:52 The Complexity of Modern Governance

41:08 The Impact of Technology on Society

52:06 The Role of Parenting in Shaping Governance

01:00:38 Optimism for Expanding Representation

01:02:02 Conclusion and Call to Action

Resources

The New Buzzword in America: Representation, by Jeff Mayhugh, The Vital Center, September 4, 2025

Do the Math: America’s Representation Ratio is All Wrong, by Jeff Mayhugh, The Hill, August 27, 2025

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 18 Kristi Kendall on Building a More Hopeful Media

Lauren Hall — Mon, 08 Sep 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this live episode of 'We Made This Political', hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by special guest Kristi Kendall, president of Kristi Kendall and Company. Kendall brings over 25 years of experience in journalism and media to the conversation, focusing on the role of media in exacerbating or challenging societal polarization. They discuss Kendall's diverse career, including her work with ABC's 2020 and her executive production role with John Stossel at Fox News and Fox Business. The discussion covers the importance of storytelling, the moral responsibilities of journalists, and Kendall's philosophy of creating hopeful content. Highlighted projects include the acclaimed documentary 'Unite Us', which aims to bridge political divides, and the innovative 'Raft for America' initiative, which fosters civil discourse through whitewater rafting experiences. The episode closes with an optimistic note on the potential of the younger generation to navigate and improve societal complexities.

00:00 Welcome to the Live Episode

00:34 Introducing Kristi Kendall

02:02 Kristi's Journey into Media

05:28 The Role of a Producer

07:14 Impact of Storytelling in Media

11:35 Media's Influence on Parenting

15:48 Risk Perception and Media Responsibility

21:49 Encouraging Civil Discourse

29:32 The Skillset for Effective Interaction

29:57 False Consensus and Airport Behavior

30:28 Cultivating Curiosity in Parenting

31:41 Children's Interests and Storytelling

32:22 Civil Discourse and Media Perception

34:01 Introducing the Movie 'Undivided Us'

35:30 The Impact of Fear and Social Isolation

38:02 Friendships Across Divides

39:40 Rafting for Depolarization

52:24 The Power of Perspective Swapping

54:40 Optimism About the Next Generation

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 17 Nico Perrino on FIRE

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Nico Perrino — Mon, 01 Sep 2025 12:00:00 GMT

Free Speech Battles and Triumphs: A Conversation with Nico Perrino from FIRE

Join us as we chat with Nico Perrino, Executive Vice President of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). We dive into Nico's journey into free speech advocacy, his work at FIRE, and the organization's evolution. Nico shares thought-provoking insights into the importance of free speech on college campuses, the challenges posed by cancel culture, and how FIRE maintains its nonpartisan stance. We also discuss how free speech principles intersect with parenting and the significance of teaching young people to navigate pluralistic societies. Plus, Nico offers an optimistic look at the future, drawing lessons from historical battles for free expression.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Bio

01:23 Nico's Journey into Free Speech Advocacy

02:57 Fire's Mission and Evolution

04:24 The Importance of Free Speech in Democracy

07:35 Challenges and Hypocrisy in Free Speech

17:09 The Role of Universities in Promoting Free Speech

31:43 Ira Glasser's Brooklyn Upbringing

32:45 Helicopter Parenting and Moral Dependency

34:22 Parenting and Free Speech

36:22 Contextual Speech and Social Awareness

38:35 Tribalism in Politics and Society

41:05 Nonpartisan Movements and Political Discourse

46:21 Challenges of Free Speech Advocacy

51:10 Navigating Cancel Culture

54:55 Curiosity and Understanding in Difficult Conversations

59:02 Historical Perspective on Free Expression

01:00:00 Conclusion and Optimism for the Future

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 16: Daniel Yudkin on moral agency and community

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Daniel Yudkin — Mon, 25 Aug 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by Daniel Yudkin, the founding director of the Beacon Project under More in Common. The conversation delves into the project's mission to combat political polarization and create a more cohesive society by exploring moral psychology and the political landscape. Daniel discusses the Hidden Tribes study, the concept of the 'Exhausted Majority,' and the importance of morally directed agency. The discussion also covers the impact of the pandemic on social interactions, the role of community service, and the importance of creating opportunities for collective effervescence. Tune in for insights into how fostering a culture of agency and community can shape a better future.

00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Backgrounds

00:49 Guest Introduction: Daniel and the Beacon Project

02:41 Understanding Political Polarization

06:08 The Exhausted Majority and Its Potential

11:45 The Role of Agency and Responsibility

24:22 Community Engagement and Collective Effervescence

35:05 The Importance of Bottom-Up Cultural Change

36:51 Creating Spaces for Community Engagement

40:24 Impact of the Pandemic on Social Habits

43:20 The Role of Friction in a Meaningful Life

51:22 Parenting and Agency in Children

57:24 The Beacon Project and Civic Responsibility

01:01:47 Optimism Amidst Chaos

Additional Resources

Daniel and the Beacon Project on Substack

Ep. 15: Kristen Kroll, Part II

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Kristen Kroll — Mon, 18 Aug 2025 12:00:00 GMT

Navigating Academia: Challenges, Equity, and Resilience

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall welcome back Dr. Kristen Kroll, Professor of Developmental Biology at Washington University, St. Louis, to discuss the multifaceted challenges faced by women in academia—especially in the STEM fields. They delve into the impacts of political decisions on scientific research and healthcare, highlighting issues of equity, access, and the systemic barriers that persist. Despite the current political climate and budget cuts, the conversation remains hopeful, emphasizing the importance of humanizing academia, supporting work-life balance, and fostering a nurturing, inclusive environment for all scholars.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

01:25 Recap of Previous Discussion

02:06 Current Challenges in Academia and STEM

06:24 Impact of Political Decisions on Healthcare

10:43 Women's Reproductive Rights and Healthcare

22:56 Gender Issues in Academia

34:30 Balancing Parenthood and Academia

35:51 Navigating Tenure and Family Life

37:24 Challenges of Maternity Leave in Academia

39:40 Supportive Environments and Human Connections

41:56 Structural Changes for a Humane Academia

47:44 The Importance of Work-Life Balance

01:00:14 Hope for the Future of Academia

01:04:25 Podcast Outro and Call to Action

Additional Resources

Kristen’s Substack is Democracy, Social Justice, Education, and the Common Good.

You can find her research and academic work on the Washington University website.

Kristen discusses The Exceptions, a book about female scientists at MIT in the 1960s and the institutional sexism they faced. Read more about this book by author and journalist Kate Zernike here.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 14: Back to School!

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Mon, 11 Aug 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall discuss the challenges of balancing compliance and free thinking in parenting, particularly in the context of modern education and political climate. They share personal anecdotes about teaching kids autonomy while also fitting into societal norms, navigating school systems, and understanding community values. They explore the impact of structured versus unstructured environments on child development and the socio-economic factors influencing parental anxiety about safety. They also touch on the importance of teaching kids to navigate various systems and settings, the consequences of over-protection, and how to foster agency in children. The conversation includes insights into the intersection of politics, cultural norms, and education, and offers practical back-to-school tips. The episode concludes with a look at the importance of anti-fragility and navigating safe spaces.

00:00 Balancing Compliance and Free Thinking in Parenting

00:43 Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts

01:32 Back to School: Challenges and Tips

03:17 Parenting Styles and School Conflicts

05:57 Navigating Systems and Norms

07:07 Ambivalence Towards School Systems

08:30 The Role of Bureaucracy in Education

11:01 Teaching Kids to Navigate Different Contexts

17:26 The Decline of Unstructured Play

18:24 Safety Perceptions and Children's Independence

23:15 Understanding Random Crime and Statistical Reasoning

24:20 The Downside of Overprotecting Children

24:49 The Importance of Parental Failures

26:22 Cognitive Biases and Negativity Bias in Parenting

27:42 Socioeconomic Factors in Parenting Anxiety

31:12 The Role of Responsibility in Reducing Anxiety

34:01 Challenges in Youth Employment and Volunteering

34:45 Navigating Differences and Conflict Resolution

41:10 The Concept of Anti-Fragility in Parenting

43:53 Optimism and Reflections on Parenting

Additional Resources

Jonathan Haidt’s Anxious Generation (on anti-fragility in parenting)

Lenore Skenazy’s Let Grow (on free-rage kids)

Rob Henderson’s work on luxury beliefs (like being anxious about pregnancy and parenting)

Musa al-Gharbi’s We Have Never Been Woke (on asking hard questions about the motivations and impact of social justice efforts)

D.S. Winnicott’s work on the Good Enough Mother (Parent) (on how being the perfect parent crowds out opportunities for kids to develop competence and agency) [Also, sincere apologies from Lura — she attributed this idea to Heinz Kohut, who is renowned for self psychology and not the Good Enough Mother.]

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 13: Kristen Kroll on the Intersection of Science, Academia, and Politics

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Kristen Kroll — Mon, 04 Aug 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall engage in an enlightening conversation with Kristen Kroll, a developmental biologist at the University of Washington in St. Louis. The discussion covers a wide range of topics, including the complexities and challenges of conducting cutting-edge scientific research, the evolving landscape of academia, the impact of recent political changes on scientific funding and integrity, and the importance of diversity and equity in STEM fields. Kristen also shares her personal journey and passion for bridging the gap between science and public understanding. Tune in for a riveting exploration of how politics and science intersect in today's world.

00:00 Introduction and Overview

00:48 Meet the Hosts and Guest

01:43 Kristen Kroll's Academic Journey

02:40 Advancements in Developmental Neurobiology

04:19 Challenges in Research Funding

06:47 The Impact of Federal Funding Cuts

07:53 Public Perception and Misinformation

10:44 The Role of Advocacy in Science

12:59 The Complexity of Modern Science

16:54 The Threat to Academic Integrity

20:21 The Future of Scientific Research

35:41 The Complexity of Modern Research

36:41 Challenges in Healthcare Policy

37:28 The Issue of Paywalls in Scientific Publishing

37:58 The Financial Burden of Publishing

40:27 The Role of NIH Public Access Policy

42:23 Diversity and Access in STEM

43:28 The Future of Academia and Career Advice

45:35 The Impact of Politics on Science

48:19 The Importance of Representation in Science

48:57 Kristen's Advocacy and Outreach Efforts

51:29 Closing Remarks and Future Discussions

01:09:56 Dismantling Expertise in American Institutions

01:11:53 Political Motivations Behind Budget Cuts

01:13:13 The Rise of Techno-Fascism

01:15:15 Challenges in Communicating Science

01:19:01 Complexity in Modern Science and Academia

01:28:33 The Predatory Nature of Scientific Publishing

01:33:28 Advice for Women and Marginalized Groups in STEM

01:39:16 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions

Additional Resources

Kristen’s Substack is Democracy, Social Justice, Education, and the Common Good

You can find her research and academic work on the Washington University website.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 11 Christina Dent: Rethinking Addiction with End It For Good

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Christina Dent — Mon, 28 Jul 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum, President of the Independent Center, and Lauren Hall, author of the Substack the Radical Moderate’s Guide to Life, are joined by Christina Dent, founder of 'End It For Good.' The discussion dives into moving from a criminal justice mindset to a health-centered approach in dealing with drug addiction. Christina shares her personal journey, starting as a foster mom, and how it reshaped her views on substance use. Highlighting the complexities of addiction, the conversation also explores Christina's work in creating open, non-coercive spaces for dialogue around drug policy. Through storytelling, empathy, and dialogue, the episode underscores the importance of approaching drug addiction with compassion and pragmatism.

Additional Resources

Check out Christina’s book Curious to read her story in more detail.

Connect with End it for Good to find out more about changing the way we think about drug addiction.

Show Notes

00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Backgrounds

00:57 Introducing the Guest: Christina Dent

01:52 Christina's Journey and Perspective on Addiction

04:54 The Complexity of Addiction and Health-Centered Approaches

08:57 Community Engagement and Book Discussions

15:33 Advocacy and Creating Safe Spaces for Dialogue

24:51 Challenges and Rewards of Vulnerable Advocacy

32:41 The Importance of Bipartisan Solutions

34:14 Finding Common Ground to Save Lives

34:29 Innovative Approaches to Addiction Treatment

35:19 The Power of Agency and Choice

36:35 Family Support and Non-Coercive Methods

38:39 The Effectiveness of Harm Reduction Programs

39:11 Understanding the Addict's Perspective

41:11 Empathy and Personal Stories in Advocacy

41:49 Challenging Ideological Positions

47:30 The Role of Emotions in Policy Discussions

50:11 Investment Aversion and Personal Connection

57:45 The Complexity of Addiction and Parenting

01:02:03 Hope and Community Action

01:07:56 Conclusion and Resources

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 11: Dan Vallone on the Military, Democracy, and Parenting

Lauren Hall — Mon, 21 Jul 2025 12:00:00 GMT

Exploring Polarization and Moderation with Dan Vallone

In this episode, Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by Dan Vallone, a veteran and expert in depolarization work, who shares his experiences and insights on bridging divides, based on his work with More In Common and his military background. The conversation also touches on the challenges and rewards of parenting, the significance of genuine local engagement, and the hope for a more unified societal future.

00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks

01:26 Guest Introduction: Dan Vallone

02:43 Dan Vallone's Journey to Depolarization Work

03:40 The Role of Veterans in Depolarization

04:24 Challenges and Successes in Local Community Work

10:14 Military Service and Its Impact on Bridge Building

16:29 The Disconnect Between Military and Civilian Life

25:20 The Importance of Political Pluralism

34:58 The Importance of Diverse Perspectives in Politics

36:21 The Exhausted Majority: Who Are They?

39:21 Challenges Faced by the Exhausted Majority

41:00 The Role of Independents in Politics

44:19 Parenting Lessons from the Military

50:03 Embracing Hardships for Personal Growth

55:02 Reflections on American Patriotism and History

01:00:47 Closing Thoughts and Optimism for the Future

Ep. 10 Veronique de Rugy

Lauren Hall — Mon, 14 Jul 2025 12:27:45 GMT

Episode Title: We Made This Political – Parenting, Policy, and the French-American Experience

Hosts: Lura Forcum & Lauren HallGuest: Veronique de Rugy, Senior Research Fellow, Economist, and French-American parent

About Our Guest:Veronique de Rugy is a Senior Research Fellow at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, where she also holds a chair in economics. Originally from France, she earned her PhD in economics there before moving to the United States to complete her dissertation at George Mason. Veronique is a leading expert on budgetary and tax issues, government spending, and cronyism, and has worked at prominent policy organizations including the Cato Institute and the American Enterprise Institute. She is a prolific writer and commentator, known for her clear, data-driven analysis and her advocacy for free markets and limited government. In addition to her policy work, Veronique brings a unique perspective as a French-American parent raising two daughters in the US.

Episode Summary:In this episode, Lura and Lauren are joined by Veronique de Rugy for a candid conversation about parenting, policy, and the cultural contrasts between French and American approaches to raising children. Veronique shares her journey from France to the US, her experiences as an economist and policy expert, and the challenges and surprises of raising two daughters in America.

Timestamps & Highlights:

* 00:00 – Introduction: Meet the hosts and today’s guest, Veronique de Rugy

* 01:00 – Veronique’s background: From France to the US, economics, and policy work

* 03:15 – Raising children in America: French heritage, language, and identity

* 05:30 – French vs. American parenting: Sleep training, boundaries, and guilt

* 13:00 – Navigating cultural expectations and finding a parenting style that works for everyone

* 16:00 – The role of guilt, enrichment, and “doing it all” in modern parenting

* 22:00 – Nature vs. nurture, resilience, and the limits of parental control

* 29:00 – Implicit vs. explicit rules in families and society

* 34:00 – How systems (education, healthcare) shape family life and individual choices

* 44:00 – COVID-19, education, and the tension between what’s best for kids vs. the system

* 54:00 – The realities of working parents, guilt, and making it all work

* 1:05:00 – Adulthood, parenting through transitions, and the lifelong role of parents

* 1:09:00 – The joys and challenges of parenting, declining fertility, and what we wish we could communicate to future parents

* 1:13:00 – Final thoughts: Parenting as a transformative, humbling, and deeply meaningful experience

Mentioned in this episode:

* Brian Kaplan’s book Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids

* Catherine Pakaluk’s book Hannah’s Children

* The impact of COVID-19 on education and family life

Join us!

Find something interesting? Leave us a comment and share the podcast with friends!

And if you haven’t already, subscribe for more conversations about flourishing, family, and the politics of everyday life.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Fourth of July Special

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Fri, 04 Jul 2025 12:00:00 GMT

Recommendations for celebrating include listening to Aaron Copland's music and reading Frederick Douglass's speech, 'What to the Slave is the Fourth of July?'

00:00 Introduction and Guiding Questions

00:11 Defining Patriotism in 2025

00:42 Local Celebrations and Community Spirit

04:39 The Importance of Intergroup Contact

08:39 Challenges of Modern Socialization

10:26 Hosting Community Events

15:27 Historical Context and Moral Ambiguity

22:14 Parenting and Societal Expectations

30:11 Local vs. National Politics

36:58 Exploring Race Relations and Social Behavior

37:04 Acts of Kindness in Airports

38:00 Reflecting on American Values and Utopianism

39:17 Polarization and Perception of America

41:28 Immigrants' Perspective on America

46:14 The Role and Power of the President

55:40 The Importance of Local Communities

57:18 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 09: Ben Klutsey on the Power of Pluralism

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Ben Klutsey — Mon, 30 Jun 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode, we're joined by Ben Klutsey of the Mercatus Center to discuss pluralism, politics, and parenting. Ben shares his background and personal experiences that fueled his passion for pluralism, including his childhood experiences in Germany contrasted against his warm welcome in Appleton, Wisconsin. He delves into his academic and professional journey exploring pluralism, informed by luminaries like John Izu and through extensive conversations with scholars and public intellectuals. The conversation also touches on how pluralism can be practiced through innovative approaches like the Pluralist Lab and the importance of fostering virtues and curiosity in children. Ben's hopeful outlook on America's resilient spirit and the potential for fostering a more inclusive and understanding society wraps up our discussion.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Background

01:46 Early Experiences with Pluralism

06:10 Academic and Professional Journey

07:56 The Pluralism Summit and Practical Applications

12:09 Fostering Curiosity and Engagement

14:56 The Pluralist Lab Explained

17:26 Challenges in Political Dialogue

27:17 The Role of Competition and Cooperation

28:14 Understanding Political and Affective Polarization

28:48 Breaking Down Meta Perceptions

30:02 The Complexity of Human Interactions

32:21 Parenting and Virtues

33:52 Balancing Virtues in Society

36:20 The Importance of Pluralism

40:39 Feedback and Perspective Taking

49:06 Optimism and Hope for the Future

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 08: William Glass, Millennial Debt Foundation

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Mon, 23 Jun 2025 12:00:00 GMT

William Glass, Millennial Debt Foundation

William Glass is communications director of the Millennial Debt Foundation, based in Chattanooga, TN. He heads up the In the Black license plate program and hosts the podcast Gross Domestic Problem, among other activities.

He has nearly a decade of experience building brands in e-commerce spaces and a few political campaigns under his belt.

Show Notes: Navigating the National Debt with William Glass

In this episode, we're joined by William Glass, Communications Director at the Millennial Debt Foundation. Our discussion dives deep into the complexities of the national debt, exploring its implications and connections to broader societal issues like political polarization and economic instability.

Glass explains the significant role entitlement programs such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid play in driving national debt. He also discusses the pressing need for entitlement reform and the potential for modernization and innovation to address these fiscal challenges.

The conversation highlights the importance of balancing fiscal responsibility with ensuring support for vulnerable populations, painting a hopeful picture of how innovative approaches and robust economic strategies could pave the way for a more stable future.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction

03:17 Discussing the National Debt

08:07 Entitlement Programs and National Debt

14:08 Millennials and Fiscal Policy

21:09 Military Spending and Fiscal Challenges

22:33 Budget Politics and Military Spending

23:30 Entitlement Programs vs. Military Spending

24:11 Government Efficiency and Military Procurement

24:33 The F-35 Program and Military Spending Critique

25:39 The Challenge of Addressing the National Debt

30:45 The Complexity of Healthcare Costs

36:58 The Role of Innovation in Solving Economic Issues

41:53 The Potential of Corporate Disruption in Healthcare

44:14 Concluding Thoughts and Resources

Ep. 07: WMTP News Round Up

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:00:00 GMT

Show Notes:

Join us as we discuss the challenges of managing personal and professional lives amid the current chaotic world events. We delve into balancing bureaucracy in education with what's happening nationally, the impact of continuous news cycles, and the 'flood the zone' strategy. We talk about federalism's role in resisting authoritarianism, the importance of maintaining neutral spaces, and the significance of understanding and connecting with people from differing political spectrums. Strategies for fostering civil dialogue and preserving the dignity of all individuals are key themes. Expect optimism, concrete thoughts, and a long-awaited kid bomb!

00:00 Introduction and Greetings

00:20 Balancing Personal and Professional Life

01:30 Managing Digital Distractions

02:46 Overwhelming News Cycles

03:39 Current Events and PR Strategies

04:36 Flood the Zone Strategy

06:05 Misinformation and Protests

09:06 Accountability and Transparency in Government

17:13 Federalism and Local Governance

20:09 Ingroup and Outgroup Dynamics

22:49 Toxic Polarization and Political Accountability

29:02 The Role of Federal Government Power

30:30 Liberal Institutions and Neutrality

30:59 The Importance of Due Process and Liberal Institutions

31:37 Toxic Polarization and Dehumanization

33:14 Short-Circuiting Dehumanization Through Dialogue

34:46 The Role of Online Spaces in Political Conversations

38:30 Understanding and Engaging with Different Perspectives

46:07 The Power of Neutral Spaces and Institutional Neutrality

53:50 The Radical Concept of Human Dignity

56:54 Optimism and Building a Better Civil Society

Sources Cited

“One story for the public, another for the courts” (The Preamble, by Sharon McMahon)

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 06: Building Resilient Communities with Seth Kaplan

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Seth Kaplan — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 12:00:00 GMT

Show Notes:

Ep. 06: Building Resilient Communities with Seth Kaplan

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' we talk with Seth Kaplan, an expert on fragile states, social cohesion, and community resilience. We discuss Kaplan's work, including his book 'Fragile Neighborhoods: Repairing American Society One Zip Code at a Time.' The conversation covers Kaplan's transition from studying international communities to focusing on American neighborhoods, the importance of strong local institutions, and practical steps for building trust and connectedness in communities. Kaplan emphasizes the need for local engagement, stewardship, and the benefits of a localized approach to creating healthier societies.

00:00 Introduction and Hosts

00:31 Guest Introduction: Seth Kaplan

01:26 Seth Kaplan's Journey and Work

04:03 Community Dynamics and Social Cohesion

10:20 Trust and Social Interaction

17:28 Government Decentralization and Community Empowerment

28:33 Neighborhood Design and Social Innovation

35:15 Gardening as a Metaphor for Community Growth

36:14 The Importance of Relationships in Politics

37:17 Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Politics

38:13 Historical Context: Local vs. National Focus

43:43 Revitalizing Segregated Neighborhoods

49:58 Building Trust and Overcoming Challenges

52:12 Practical Steps for Community Engagement

58:20 Optimism and Future of Local Civil Society

01:06:13 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 05: Shannon Watson - Reimagining Political Engagement with Insights from Majority in the Middle

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and Shannon Watson — Mon, 02 Jun 2025 12:00:00 GMT

Reimagining Political Engagement: Majority in the Middle’s Shannon Watson

Join us as we chat with Shannon Watson, founder of the nonprofit Majority in the Middle. We discuss the challenges of political partisanship, the importance of civic education, and how we can create spaces for constructive political engagement. Shannon shares insights on demographic shifts, the personal impacts of running for office, and the power of positive reinforcement in political discourse.

Tune in to learn about making politics more inclusive and less adversarial.

*There are a couple places where the audio in this episode is not ideal because Shannon was recording from a busy space for unavoidable (and very good!) reasons. Thanks for overlooking the audio imperfections so we can keep getting fantastic guests with busy lives like Shannon.

What You Can Do Today

Send an email or public social media comment to a public servant or politician you think is doing a great job doing bipartisan or bridging work. With so much negativity bias in politics, the folks who are doing the work of reaching across divides don’t hear enough (or any!) positive reinforcement when they’re doing the right thing. Those public messages of encouragement and support matter!

Books and resources we talk about and/or recommend:

What’s the Matter with Kansas (older book on voting behavior)It Takes a Candidate (women and political office)

Show Notes

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

01:20 Shannon Watson's Background and Majority in the Middle

02:13 Defining the Middle and Civic Education

04:04 Personal Political Journeys

05:47 Family Political Dynamics

10:06 Political Polarization and Social Media

13:42 The Origin of Majority in the Middle

19:21 Challenges in Political Participation

20:40 Structural Partisanship in Legislatures

23:17 Encouraging Collaboration in Politics

26:05 Politics as Relationships vs. Power

27:39 Reflecting on Values and Intentional Storytelling

28:23 The Role of Media and Universities in Shaping Public Perception

29:07 Congress and the Attention Economy

30:01 Activists vs. Jurors in Politics

34:53 Challenges of Political Moderation and Independent Voters

44:09 Local Government and Nonpartisan Roles

48:58 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 04: Austen Campbell

Lauren Hall, Lura Forcum, and INC — Tue, 27 May 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall introduce Austen Campbell, founder of the Independent National Coalition. Join them as they discuss the importance of independent thinking in politics, the challenges of the two-party system, and the need for coalition-driven strategies. They explore the potential of citizens' assemblies, the significance of representing diverse voices, and the necessity of genuine problem-solving over partisan politics. The conversation delves into the future of American politics, the role of technology, and the pressing issues facing the next generations.

00:00 Introduction and Host Introductions

00:36 Meet Austen Campbell: Founder of the Independent National Coalition

01:28 The Appeal of Independent Politics

03:28 Challenges and Litmus Tests for Independent Candidates

07:53 Historical Context and Growth of Independent Movements

12:19 Moderation, Centrism, and Independent Identity

18:07 Problem Solving and the Future of Independent Politics

24:36 Common Sense Immigration Policy

24:56 Challenges of the Two-Party System

25:24 Hope in Local Politics

26:03 Electoral Reforms and Obstacles

27:54 The Role of Morally Aligned Leaders

29:04 Career vs. Celebrity Politicians

34:01 The Value of Citizens Assemblies

35:17 Barriers to Participation

41:34 Experiencing the System Firsthand

43:41 The Impact of Technology on Politics

46:08 Optimism and Community Values

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 03 Relational Politics

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Mon, 19 May 2025 13:48:32 GMT

Episode three is up!

We’re still working out the kinks over here, including experimenting a bit with sound quality and some other things. Hopefully each episode will get a bit better.

Send us any and all feedback, including ideas for new episodes! And if you like what you read, please share and subscribe!

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 01: We Made This Political!

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Fri, 25 Apr 2025 20:50:13 GMT

Welcome to the launch episode of 'We Made This Political,' a new podcast by Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall.

In this introductory episode, Lura and Lauren discuss their goals, backgrounds, and what listeners can expect. The podcast aims to explore the intersections of modern life and politics, drawing on their diverse academic and personal experiences. They touch on parenting, polarization, and the need for better political discourse, setting the stage for future episodes.

Expect candid conversations, tech hiccups, and even some pet and kid interruptions.

00:00 Welcome to Our New Podcast!

00:58 Meet Your Hosts: Lura and Lauren

02:02 Diving into Our Backgrounds

05:24 Parenting and Politics: A Unique Intersection

11:24 The Importance of Constructive Conversations

17:59 Hopeful Moments and Closing Thoughts

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Ep. 02: Control and Agency in Parenting and Politics

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum — Fri, 25 Apr 2025 19:49:20 GMT

Navigating Control and Agency in Politics and Parenting

In the second episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall explore the concepts of control versus agency through the lenses of political science, psychology, and parenting.

We discuss Mel Robbins' book 'The Let Them Theory' and its relevance to reducing anxiety by relinquishing control. We delve into psychological theories like illusory control, locus of control, and reactance to explain how people respond to attempts at control. The conversation also touches on the implications of these ideas for public policy, highlighting the necessity of understanding people's behaviors and motivations before attempting to change them.

The episode emphasizes the importance of personal interactions in overcoming polarization and advocates for a bottom-up approach to building community trust.

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

01:10 Exploring Control vs. Agency

01:20 Mel Robbins' 'Let Them Theory'

04:56 Psychological Concepts: Illusory Control and Reactance

10:09 Parenting and Control Dynamics

18:06 Nudge Theory in Policy and Parenting

27:22 The Complexity of Retirement Savings

28:04 The Role of the State in Retirement Planning

29:06 Communicating Policy Effectively

29:57 Understanding Human Behavior in Policy Making

31:46 Polarization and Policy Interventions

34:39 Ingroup and Outgroup Dynamics

43:49 The Importance of Face-to-Face Interactions

49:19 Parenting and Policy Parallels

51:12 Concluding Thoughts and Future Discussions

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com