Pen Pals

Cait Flanders: From Blog Experiment to Bestseller (and Back Again)

Pen Pals — Mon, 23 Feb 2026 10:00:00 GMT

Kelton gets her first agent rejection and refuses to sugarcoat it—while Krisserin shares what she learned about advances, deal structures, and editor wish lists from her meeting with agent Kima Jones.

Then bestselling author Cait Flanders joins to tell the unlikely origin story of The Year of Less—how a blogged shopping ban went viral on Forbes, attracted six literary agents, and became a Wall Street Journal bestseller now resurfacing on TikTok a decade later. Cait gets refreshingly transparent about advances, earning out, switching publishers, and the real tension between maintaining a SubStack audience and carving out space to write her third book.

Plus: middle grade fiction advocacy, a genre-busting reading challenge, and why Kelton’s only goal this week is to read a book.

Find Cait Flanders:
Website: www.caitflanders.com
Substack: caitflanders.substack.com
Instagram: @caitflanders

Books by Cait Flanders:
The Year of Less (Hay House) — Wall Street Journal Bestseller
Adventures in Opting Out (Little Brown Spark)

Books Mentioned in This Episode:
“October, October” by Katya Balen
“The Names” by Florence Knapp
“The Housemaid” by Frieda McFadden
“Annihilation” by Jeff VanderMeer
“Lady Tremaine” by Rachel Hochhauser
“The Ogress and the Orphans” by Kelly Barnville

Write to us:
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Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Bonus Episode: Inside the Debut Author Survey with Emily Zipps

Pen Pals — Sat, 21 Feb 2026 10:00:00 GMT

We couldn't just talk about Emily Zipps' debut author survey — we had to talk to her. Krisserin and Kelton sit down with Emily herself — author of Alice Rue Evades the Truth and the forthcoming The Two Lives of Amelia Waxler (both from Dial Press) — to dig into what inspired her to survey 60 fellow debut authors, what surprised her in the results, and what she found genuinely hopeful.

Find Emily online:
Instagram & Threads: @emilyzipps
Website: emilyzipps.com
Substack (Fun Announcements and Sporadic Thoughts): emilyzipps.substack.com
Emily Zipps' Debut Author Survey: https://substack.com/home/post/p-185355080

Books: Alice Rue Evades the Truth (available now) | The Two Lives of Amelia Waxler (forthcoming 2027)

Write to us:
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Follow us:
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TikTok: @penpalspod
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Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonkin
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com
The Rewilding

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

What Debut Authors Actually Get Paid (And Why We're Mad About It)

Pen Pals — Mon, 16 Feb 2026 10:00:00 GMT

What does a debut author actually get paid? Krisserin and Kelton dig into Emily Zips' survey data and don't love what they find—average two-book deals for $50K, most authors working day jobs, and advances that won't cover daycare.

Plus: Kelton's Scrivener file predicted her dream agent, Instagram shadow ban drama, the identity question of "writer vs. mom," and why chapter summaries feel like showing your work in seventh grade math. Krisserin's IAIA MFA application is complete, and someone's getting paid $100 per chapter summary—into their own savings account.

Books Mentioned in This Episode:
• "The Possession of Alba Diaz" by Isabel Cañas
• "Soul Searching" by Lyla Sage

Resources Mentioned:
• Emily Zipps' Debut Author Survey

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Mark Sarvas on Writing Novels That Can't Be Ignored

Pen Pals — Mon, 09 Feb 2026 10:00:00 GMT

Krisserin panics her way through a grad school application (wrong link, wrong deadline, wrong page numbers), while Kelton enters the querying trenches—19 Google Docs open, three agents contacted, and the immediate certainty that something went wrong. But the real treat this week is their interview with Mark Sarvas, award-winning author of Memento Park and Harry, Revised, Krisserin's longtime teacher and mentor from the UCLA Extension Writers Program.

Mark shares the full arc of his writing journey—from burnt-out screenwriter to literary blogger with 50,000 daily readers to novelist who didn't publish until 44. He talks about the "non-recurring phenomenon" of finding his agent Simon Lipskar at Writer's House, why he did eight full drafts of his first novel before sending a single query, and the love-match quality of the right agent relationship. The conversation digs into the changing landscape of publishing, including the rise of ghosting culture that's infected even longtime editor-agent relationships, and why platform obsession is the wrong focus for fiction writers—citing his former student Miranda Heller, whose debut The Paper Palace became a number one New York Times bestseller without any social media presence.

Mark gets practical about what writers should invest in (build your library first, always), the hierarchy of residencies from $500-a-week cabins to fully funded month-long stays in France, and the writing retreat he runs on the Monterey Peninsula with his partner Jennifer's literary organization, To the Lighthouse. He explains his workshop philosophy—why the day your work gets critiqued is the least important day, why "I wanted" is a banned phrase in his classroom, and why you should submit your weakest chapter, not your strongest.

Plus: Kelton gets feedback from a well-connected friend that splinters her querying path, Mark reveals he's working on a historical novel with multiple POVs (a deliberate challenge after three first-person books), and both hosts celebrate the rare achievement of actually completing their weekly goals.

Learn more about Mark Sarvas:
Website: marksarvas.com
Blue Sky: marksarvas.bsky.social
Newsletter: The Eternal Recurrence
2026 Fiction Writing Retreat with Mark Sarvas, To the Lighthouse: https://www.tothelighthouse.net/retreats

Books by Mark Sarvas:
MEMENTO PARK (FSG)
HARRY, REVISED (Bloomsbury)
@UGMAN (ITNA Press)

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

When a Miracle Slides Into Your DMs: On Agents, Advances, and Anxiety

Pen Pals — Mon, 02 Feb 2026 10:00:00 GMT

Kelton's inbox delivers a dream: an agent from a respected agency slid into her DMs after discovering her writing on Substack. The excitement is real—but so is the anxiety of navigating what comes next. Do you query other agents simultaneously? How do you know if you vibe? And what does a "good deal" actually mean on Publisher's Marketplace?

This week, Kelton and Krisserin break down the research-heavy world of finding representation—from decoding deal tiers to building agent lists through comp titles and genre searches. Krisserin shares wisdom from her own querying journey, including her stack-ranked spreadsheets, red flags to watch for, and the agent who dared to criticize her exposition after requesting only three pages.

The conversation gets real about money: advances that barely cover childcare, dental insurance regrets, and why writers need to stop treating book deals like lottery tickets and start asking themselves what their financial goals actually are. Plus: the ethics of getting rich by caring a little less, and why Krisserin's book absolutely deserves a "major" deal.

Goals for the week: Kelton's querying three agents after polishing her prologue, and Krisserin's taking a rare self-care day—spa, library, latte, and maybe some editor research if the vibes are right.

Support Minnesota:
• Women's Foundation of Minnesota: https://www.wfmn.org/funds/immigrant-rapid-response/
• Publishing for Minnesota Auction: https://www.32auctions.com/publishingforMN

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Paper Prototypes and Publishing: Vicki Tan's Non-Traditional Book Deal

Pen Pals — Mon, 26 Jan 2026 10:00:00 GMT

What happens when a designer walks into a Manhattan publishing office with paper prototypes that look like children's toys? In this episode, Kelton reconnects with Vicki Tan, a former colleague from Headspace turned author, to explore her unconventional path to publishing Ask This Book a Question—an interactive cognitive bias book that defies easy categorization.

Vicki shares how a chance conversation with a friend (who also connected her with an agent) led to an in-person pitch meeting, a two-year pandemic pause, and ultimately a bidding war between major publishers. She reveals why the stories in her book matter more than the science, how her original editor leaving mid-project changed the final product, and why she still doesn't call herself an author. Plus: the upcoming companion card deck, the power of comp titles when your book doesn't fit a genre, and why the most interesting ideas are often the hardest to pitch.

Also in this episode: Kelton starts agent shopping with a 12-person spreadsheet, Krisserin recovers from Miami work travel, and a listener question about repurposing Substack essays for publication.

Links:

Vicki's website: vickitan.com/book
Instagram: @vickiheart

Books Vicki Recommended:

The Paper Menagerie by Ken Liu
Subtle by Kenya Hara
Universal Principles of Design by William Lidwell, Kritina Holden, and Jill Butler

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

"Never Save the World": JT Ellison on 30 Books, Citrine Magic, and Writing Through the Darkness

Pen Pals — Tue, 20 Jan 2026 10:00:00 GMT

Krisserin and Kelton kick off 2026 by getting real about the challenge of creating art in turbulent times—from doom-scrolling to feeling like your work is too small for the moment. Then they're joined by New York Times and USA Today bestselling author JT Ellison, who has written more than 30 psychological thrillers and domestic noir novels and co-hosts the Emmy Award-winning "A Word on Words" on Nashville PBS.

The conversation dives deep into the realities of a 20-year writing career: co-writing six books with Catherine Coulter (and learning how a #1 bestseller actually works), launching a fantasy series under pen name Joss Walker because algorithms don't forgive genre-hopping, and the 70,000-word wall where every book makes her want to jump off a cliff.

The trio discusses industry myths (bad sales track can absolutely be overcome with a book they can't ignore), the creative cost of social media pile-ons, and Stephen King's wisdom about writing with the door closed. JT shares her current aspiration after two decades of hustle: ease. Just write one book a year and enjoy it. Plus: major news that her Taylor Jackson series just sold to Thomas and Mercer for a full reboot.

Whether you're dreaming of your first book deal or your thirtieth, JT's journey offers proof that the path to publication rarely looks like you expect—and that sometimes the detours are exactly what your writing needs. Goals: Kelton plans to finish and send her memoir proposal to a friend for review, while Krisserin focuses on completing her grad school application essay and tinkering with the ending of her short story.

JT's Book Recommendations:

Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier
None of This Is True by Lisa Jewell
Outlander by Diana Gabaldon

Connect with JT Ellison:
Subscribe to JT's Substack: The Creative Edge
Visit JT's Website: jtellison.com
Follow JT's Instagram: @thrillerchick

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

The Capricorn and the Libra: Our Year in Review

Pen Pals — Tue, 23 Dec 2025 10:00:00 GMT

In their final episode of 2025, Krisserin and Kelton reflect on a year that transformed them both—32 episodes of accountability, pivot points, and hard-won victories. While Krisserin celebrates landing an agent and finishing her duology, Kelton reveals her elaborate "Year of 40" planning document complete with astrological mapping and a manifestation app.

Looking ahead to 2026, Kelton unveils her ambitious plans—the Rewilding winter practice, a new monthly writing group called the Murmuration, and manifesting a business partner with a very specific JD. Krisserin's playing it closer to the vest, applying to an MFA program and hoping for a book deal she's still too protective of her heart to fully visualize.

Between debates about who's more commercially-minded (Capricorn wins), pleas for listener ratings, and their characteristic mix of commiseration and ambition, this episode celebrates what a year of showing up—for your writing and for each other—can actually accomplish.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Writing Through December Chaos

Pen Pals — Mon, 15 Dec 2025 10:00:00 GMT

In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton confront the reality of December's chaotic energy—where seasonal disruptions, holiday stress, and looming daycare closures threaten to derail their writing routines entirely. While Kelton grapples with her lack of structure (going without coffee until noon, navigating postpartum dairy restrictions, and awaiting news of hand-foot-and-mouth disease), Krisserin celebrates a hollow victory: typing "THE END" on her manuscript, only to feel completely disconnected from the work.

The friends trade strategies for building sustainable writing habits in the midst of life's upheaval—from Kelton's plan to reclaim her most reliable morning hour from client work to Krisserin's decision to explore short story writing and grad school applications while her novel rests. They debate the ethics of platform-building on TikTok, where algorithmic luck matters more than generous engagement, and wrestle with the pressure to create "uniquely differentiating" content when billions of people are doing the same thing. Through Emily Halnon's wisdom about training like an athlete and the reminder that 30 minutes of writing beats zero minutes every time, Krisserin and Kelton offer a refreshing antidote to December chaos: sometimes the goal is just to show up, even when showing up feels like the hardest thing in the world.

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Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Stop Tap Dancing in Your Query Letter: Ali Gordon's Path to Publication

Pen Pals — Mon, 08 Dec 2025 10:00:00 GMT

Krisserin and Kelton sit down with Ali Gordon, author of "We Have Reached the End of Our Show," to discuss her unconventional path to publication without an agent. Ali shares how she wrote her debut novel during the pandemic as a "cozy treehouse" where she could escape—a meditation on grief and the end of the world inspired by her experience losing both parents to cancer within two years.

The conversation digs into the brutal reality of querying: from agents who loved her novella but wouldn't represent it without expansion, to the personal sting of form rejections when you've poured your trauma onto the page. Ali explains why she stopped "tap dancing" in her query letters and started reaching out directly to independent publishers—landing at Wildling Press, where the entire team read her manuscript within weeks and called to say "we all cried, we love it."

Ali gets honest about the trade-offs of publishing with a small press (no advance, years of unpaid work) versus the reward of working with people genuinely in love with your material. She reflects on how querying hurt her feelings in ways even acting school rejection never did, why writing "in love" with your project matters more than outlining obligations, and how four hours of forced airplane boredom gave her the idea for her next (hopefully funny) novel.

Plus: Kelton's toddler still isn't sleeping so she's giving herself permission to rest despite memoir proposal deadlines, Krisserin shares the embarrassing story of fumbling repeated follow-ups from an interested agent twelve years ago, and both hosts grapple with social media metrics while pushing toward their January deadlines in a season when they should be pulling back.

Learn more about Ali Gordon:
Website: https://www.whatdoesaligordondo.com/
Book: "We Have Reached the End of Our Show"
Instagram: @msalicenutting

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Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Long-time Readers and Short-Lived Aunties: A Thanksgiving Gratitude Special

Pen Pals — Mon, 24 Nov 2025 10:00:00 GMT

When you're chasing publication dreams and battling rejection, gratitude feels like a luxury. But Krisserin and Kelton argue it's actually a practice—one that keeps you grounded when writing feels impossible. In this candid Thanksgiving conversation, they explore gratitude as a skill you build, not a feeling that arrives. They tackle the envy that lurks behind ambition, answer a listener's question about returning to abandoned projects, and get deeply personal about the people who've shaped their writing—from long-time readers who stuck with them for decades, to short-lived aunties who passed through their lives leaving permanent gifts. Krisserin celebrates a week of wild productivity. Kelton reflects on the readers who've been loyal since her Date by Numbers days. Both hosts reckon with how family, mentorship, and financial anxiety shaped their relationship to art. If you're oscillating between genuine gratitude and performative thankfulness, this episode holds space for both.

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Emily Halnon's Couch-to-Marathon for Writers: From Proposal to Bestseller

Pen Pals — Mon, 17 Nov 2025 13:00:00 GMT

Krisserin's brain is scrambled from her massive Excel spreadsheet organizing her 24,000 remaining words, while Kelton is juggling unexpected client work that threatens to derail her memoir proposal. But this week they're joined by Emily Halnon, USA Today bestselling author of To the Gorge: Running Grief and Resilience and 460 Miles on the Pacific Crest Trail, a writer, trail runner, and mountain athlete who set the fastest known time on the 460-mile Oregon PCT.

Emily's here to talk about the gap between landing an agent and getting published—and why the submission process was far more brutal than her surprisingly smooth querying journey. After three agent offers in six weeks, Emily faced publisher after publisher saying no, not because of her writing, but because her platform wasn't big enough. She breaks down the "pitch deck" strategy for positioning your memoir, how market bias shows up in publishing decisions (including the absurd reasoning that there's only room for one book about women on trails), and the practical realities of book marketing that most authors do themselves.

The trio discusses what actually gets your book into readers' hands—from strategic podcast appearances to NPR affiliate targeting to direct DM outreach. Emily shares her candid breakdown of launch strategy, sustainable (and unsustainable) approaches to self-promotion, and the vulnerability hangover that comes after pouring your grief onto the page. Plus: Emily's discovery of poetry as creative renewal, Krisserin's push toward December 1st manuscript completion, Kelton's chapter outline goals, and their shared realization that sometimes the best writing investment is permission to rest and let ideas compost.

Through their different paths to publication, all three writers circle back to the same truth: authenticity and persistence matter more than perfect platforms or publishers' initial predictions.

Get Emily's book: To the Gorge: Running Grief and Resilience and 460 Miles on the Pacific Crest Trail

Learn more about Emily:
Website: https://www.emilyhalnon.com/
Instagram: @emilysweats
Substack Newsletter: Trail Mix

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Writing Through the Doldrums

Pen Pals — Mon, 10 Nov 2025 10:00:00 GMT

In this candid episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton get real about the challenging phases every writer faces—the doldrums. Between sleepless toddler nights, demanding day jobs, and the mental exhaustion of parenting, both hosts grapple with keeping their writing momentum alive. Krisserin wrestles with defining the antagonist in her second novel while navigating the broader scale and complexity her story demands, questioning whether she has what it takes to pull it off. Meanwhile, Kelton evaluates her newsletter's future after four and a half years of free essays, contemplating the balance between creative satisfaction and sustainable output. They discuss the realities of being a parent-writer, the pressure of the holiday season, the importance of taking breaks, and the confidence that comes with age and experience. Despite feeling down in the moment, both writers remain certain they'll emerge on the other side—together—holding hands toward success. A relatable and honest conversation for any creative pushing through the valleys between mountains.

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Olivia Muenter on Book Deals, Big Five Rejections, and Why Success Doesn't Cure Imposter Syndrome

Pen Pals and Olivia Muenter — Mon, 03 Nov 2025 10:00:00 GMT

Krisserin's fighting through the darkness of her 5 AM garage writing sessions while Kelton navigates competing feedback on her memoir proposal. But this week they're joined by their third Season 2 guest: Olivia Muenter, USA Today bestselling author of "Such a Bad Influence," co-host of the Bad On Paper podcast, and Pen Pals superfan. Olivia's here to talk about her wildly unconventional path to publication—and why landing a book deal didn't cure her imposter syndrome like she thought it would.

The trio discusses the challenges of generating new material after months of revision (Krisserin hasn't written new words in over a year), the importance of curating beautiful writing spaces (taper candles can fix everything, according to Olivia), and why rest is productive. Olivia's daily routine—journaling first, then tackling the most creative work in the morning, with a brain-dump journal that has "absolutely changed her life"—offers a template for sustainable creative practice.

Plus: Krisserin moves from revision to terrifying new material, Kelton wrestles with contradictory feedback on her memoir proposal (more voice versus more market research), and Olivia plans her first self-hosted writing retreat in the Catskills while finishing her proposal for book three. Through their different writing styles and career paths, all three writers circle back to the same truth: the only real measure of success is that you keep going, no matter who rejects you.

Pre-order Olivia's upcoming novel "Little One" (releases February 3rd): https://www.littlebrown.com/titles/olivia-muenter/little-one/9780316594561/

Learn more about Olivia:
Website & Newsletter: https://oliviamuenter.substack.com/
Bad On Paper Podcast: https://badonpaperpodcast.com/
"Such a Bad Influence": https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/739425/such-a-bad-influence-by-olivia-muenter/

Recommended Reading from Olivia:

"Night Watching" by Tracy Sierra
"Tilt" by Emma Petit
"Notes on Your Sudden Disappearance" by Alison Pac

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Ghost Stories and Good Luck: Lesley Bannatyne on Contests, Craft, and the Spirit of Halloween

Pen Pals — Mon, 27 Oct 2025 09:00:00 GMT

In this episode, Krisserin and Kelton sit down with author and Halloween historian Lesley Bannatyne, whose short story collection Lake Song won the Grace Paley Prize for Short Fiction. Lesley shares her unconventional path to publication—winning major contests without an agent—and the craft lessons she learned along the way. They talk writing community, finding inspiration in spooky places, and why the best stories linger like ghosts long after you close the book.

Learn more about Lesley at lesleybannatyne.com

Get 20% off Lake Song using promo code "LAKE" from Ohio State University Press here: https://ohiostatepress.org/books/titles/9780814259542.html

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Chelsea Hodson on Tumblr Fame, Cold Emails, and Writing at 2:30 AM

Pen Pals, Kelton Wright, and Chelsea Hodson — Mon, 20 Oct 2025 13:00:00 GMT

Krisserin's broadcasting from Scottsdale, Arizona (after getting two speeding tickets in the same spot) while Kelton's racing to finish her memoir proposal. But the real star of this episode is their first Season 2 guest interview: Chelsea Hodson, author of Tonight I'm Someone Else, founder of Rose Books, creator of the Morning Writing Club, and now a musician releasing her debut single.

Chelsea shares her unconventional path to publication—from studying journalism when professors warned "this career is dead," to cold-emailing Sarah Manguso to become her personal assistant in exchange for editing help. Her breakthrough came through daily discipline: a Tumblr project called "Inventory" where she photographed herself with every object she owned and wrote one paragraph. Posting every day for two years, she went from 10 followers to 20,000—and caught the attention of a literary agent.

The conversation digs deep into the hard parts of being a writer: the editor who dismissed her essay with "girls always write about camp," the MFA instructor who told her to throw away a piece and start over, the agent who quit publishing the week her manuscript was due. Chelsea reveals how these crushing moments actually strengthened her work—teaching her to double down on what makes her writing different instead of conforming to others' expectations.

Practical wisdom abounds: Why Chelsea wakes up at 2:30 AM to write before her toddler wakes up. How she used exposure therapy (posting on Tumblr daily) to overcome her fear of publishing. Why she spent her book advance touring instead of waiting for her publisher. The importance of reading work aloud to know when it's truly done. And why publishing a book won't solve your inner perfectionism—it might actually magnify it.

Plus: Krisserin finishes revising both books and sends them to her agent, Kelton gets marketing advice from author Emily Halnon about bolstering her memoir proposal, and they both reflect on the importance of engaging with writers you admire as peers, not pedestals.

Learn more about Chelsea Hodson, sign up for the Morning Writing Club and listen to her single here: https://chelseahodson.com/

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Keep Fishing: How to Build Confidence as a Writer

Pen Pals — Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:00:00 GMT

Krisserin's fighting off sickness while crushing her revision goals, and Kelton's Rewilding class just sold out. So why do they both feel like frauds? This week, they tackle the tricky b***h that is confidence—how to build it, maintain it, and why it's so much harder for women to claim it publicly.

Kelton reflects on a childhood spent being told she couldn't do things (seriously, f**k you, John from high school), and how that "no you can't" turned into rocket fuel. Krisserin shares how the world beat down her fearless younger self, and why the scary moments—the public readings, the vulnerable asks—are exactly when we grow the most. They discuss the double bind of being a woman: too humble and you're annoying, too confident and you're full of yourself.

The conversation gets practical about what actually builds confidence: doing the work, over-preparing until you can perform, separating your worth from your work, and finding the ease in what you do. Krisserin reveals she's been actively writing for nearly 20 years—a realization that hits different when you say it out loud. Kelton admits she walks through the woods rehearsing podcast interviews where she talks about making $100,000 in a month, just to make it sound normal to herself.

But the real confidence builder? Community. Whether it's Kelton's coven from doing The Artist's Way together or Krisserin's classmates from Harvard Extension who celebrated her agent news, having people who fan your flame makes all the difference. They challenge listeners to find their person, take a class, join a group—because your dream will die in the dark if you don't tell anyone about it.

Plus: Why successful women need to stop being so humble already, the importance of "casting a line" even when you'll probably get rejected, and Kelton's direct plea to actually rate the damn podcast.

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Finding Your Voice (And Other Terrifying Feedback)

Pen Pals — Mon, 06 Oct 2025 09:00:00 GMT

Kelton's exhausted from weeks of sleepless nights with a teething toddler, and Krisserin is deep in revision mode—235 pages edited and counting. But the real topic of this episode is one every writer dreads: major editorial feedback that you don't know how to fix.

Krisserin shares her agent's note that her manuscript lacks authorial voice despite having strong character voices and excellent pacing. Is it because it's YA? Is she too afraid to inject her own beliefs into the narrative? Or is her deep-seated fear true—that she's just a good mimic without a distinct style? Kelton offers perspective: maybe the screenplay-like quality of the book means Krisserin needs to think like a director, not just a camera.

The conversation expands into the bigger question: how do you choose the right form for your story? Kelton explains why she chose memoir over research-heavy journalism (spoiler: she hates research and loves writing about herself). They discuss the practicalities of genre constraints, like Kelton's realization that her novel's main character probably needs to be 19, not in her thirties—which might make it YA whether she wants it to be or not.

Plus: manifestation walks where Kelton practices saying "the month I made $100,000," the difference between hard work and good work, why putting down projects might be the right move, and Krisserin's plan to spend her 41st birthday alone in an Airbnb reading her entire manuscript aloud.

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

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Speaking Success Into Existence (Plus Actual Magic)

Pen Pals — Mon, 29 Sep 2025 09:00:00 GMT

Big news drops in this episode: Krisserin has an agent! After manuscript consultations with longtime friend Kima Jones from Triangle House Literary, what started as friendly feedback sessions turned into official representation. Krisserin shares the whirlwind week from reading her book aloud to receiving editorial notes and submission timelines—all organized with Virgo precision.

But this episode isn't just about celebrating—it's about the magic that got them here. Kelton and Krisserin dive deep into the role of ritual, intuition, and intentional practices in their writing lives. From Krisserin's elaborate morning routine (three beverages, garage sanctuary, two-hour focus blocks) to Kelton's tarot-guided newsletter writing, they explore how creating sacred space around creativity actually works.

The conversation touches on everything from Bulgarian evil eye protection and coffee ground readings to the difference between prophecy and intuition. They discuss why "magic" as a concept might feel inaccessible to some, but argue that writers are already believers—we create worlds from nothing, after all.

Most importantly, they tackle the power of speaking your dreams into existence. No more treating book deals like lottery tickets or apologizing for wanting to make money from their art. As Krisserin puts it: "We're gonna make money from our writing... we gotta dream big here, you know?"

Whether you're skeptical about tarot or already burning sage, this episode offers practical wisdom about creating rituals that support your creative practice and the importance of believing in your work enough to make it real.

Plus! This is your last chance to sign up for Kelton's class. There are a couple more spots so snag one of them here: https://www.keltonwright.com/rewilding

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

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Back to Work: The Autumn Novel Theory (And Other Excuses)

Pen Pals — Mon, 22 Sep 2025 09:00:00 GMT

Krisserin and Kelton are back for Season 2! They dive into their summer writing goals with the brutal honesty that only true accountability partners can provide. Kelton reveals why she convinced her therapist that her novel is "seasonally inappropriate" for summer writing, pivoting instead to a memoir proposal that practically wrote itself in three days. Meanwhile, Krisserin confesses to feeling overwhelmed by alpha reader feedback and discovers the humbling truth about her editing skills while reading her speculative novel aloud to an agent friend.

Between tales of COVID summers, PTA obligations, and toddler daycare transitions, they explore the reality of fitting writing into lives that refuse to pause for creative pursuits. The conversation takes an illuminating turn as they discuss eye-opening insights from Krisserin's manuscript consultations, including why multi-book deals might be financial suicide and the uncomfortable question every writer should ask: what's your monetary goal for this book?

From Kelton's new "Rewilding" class to their shared revelation that they've been treating book publishing like winning the lottery instead of a achievable career goal, this episode captures the messy, non-linear reality of pursuing publication while living full, complicated lives. Plus: why over-editing exists, the art of pivoting to projects that energize you, and their ambitious fall goals that just might change everything.

Learn more about Kelton's class: The Rewilding here.

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The Final Chapter: Season One Finale

Pen Pals — Tue, 03 Jun 2025 09:00:00 GMT

It’s the season one finale! We’re talking endings—what makes them work, what makes them fail, and how we’re both rethinking the ends of our own books. Krisserin gets real about the feedback that’s forcing her to rewrite, and Kelton opens up about moral ambiguity, memoir structure, and what she’ll be working on over the summer. Plus: North & South yearning, Romantasy fatigue, and the rise of the goddamn.

We’ll be back after Labor Day with Season Two—new guests, new books, and (hopefully) new success.

Stay in touch with us over the summer! Subscribe to the Pen Pals Podcast substack here: https://penpalspod.substack.com/

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How to Get a Literary Agent (Kind Of, Maybe)

Pen Pals — Tue, 27 May 2025 09:00:00 GMT

Krisserin and Kelton dive into the often soul-crushing world of querying literary agents, where finding representation feels like a high-stakes marriage proposal to strangers who might never write back. While Krisserin reflects on her 70-query journey that yielded more silence than success, Kelton discovers that her friend's surprise pitch to an agent might offer a shortcut she's not sure she wants to take. The duo unpacks the brutal mathematics of modern querying—where 44 queries is just the average—and debates whether Kelton should pivot from her novel-in-progress to the essay collection that's been hiding in plain sight across 160+ newsletter issues.

Between tales of agents with closed inboxes, the networking advantages of MFA programs, and the particular challenge of writing query letters that somehow capture your book's essence in marketing speak, they explore the tension between authentic connection and mass-market approach. Krisserin shares wisdom from her AWP conference panel while wrestling with whether to circle back to contacts from her first querying round, and Kelton contemplates the difference between luck and strategy in a publishing world that often feels rigged toward the privileged. Plus: Woods turns one, Apple Notes fails spectacularly at transcription, and the friends assign goals that might just change everything about their approach to the writing life.

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The Fool, the Villain, and the Wedgie: A Guide to Better Characters

Pen Pals — Tue, 20 May 2025 09:00:00 GMT

Krisserin and Kelton dive deep into the art of character creation, exploring what makes fictional people compelling, memorable, and real. From their shared love of Murder Bot's sarcastic inner monologue to their hatred of clumsy coffee-spilling protagonists, they dissect the elements that make characters stick with readers long after the last page. The duo discusses developing well-rounded villains (because nobody likes a mustache-twirling baddie), the importance of character interiority without falling into exposition traps, and how everyday details like bathroom habits and eating styles can reveal everything about a person. Plus, Kelton shares her character-building technique of people-watching in real life, while Krisserin reflects on her love for underdog stories and characters fighting against injustice. Whether you're crafting heroes, villains, or that annoying neighbor who chews too loudly, this episode offers practical insights for bringing fictional people to life.

Abby Wolfe's Sounds About Write: "I Wrote Nothing This Week"

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AI Is the Devil (And Other Light Topics)

Pen Pals — Tue, 13 May 2025 09:00:00 GMT

Kelton and Krisserin dive into their complicated relationship with artificial intelligence—which they lovingly refer to as "the devil." They share personal stories about how AI has affected their writing careers, including a heartbreaking moment when Krisserin discovered one of her alpha readers had unwittingly fed her novel manuscript to an AI tool. The hosts explore ethical boundaries, debate when AI use is appropriate versus exploitative, and discuss the environmental impact of this rapidly expanding technology. They also offer practical advice for writers navigating this new landscape, including the importance of developing a personal AI policy and having transparent conversations with collaborators. Whether you're embracing AI as a research tool or cautiously keeping it at arm's length, this candid conversation tackles the hopes, fears, and hard realities of creating in an AI-saturated world.

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

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Books That Raised Us (And Broke Us)

Pen Pals — Tue, 06 May 2025 09:00:00 GMT

Remember that one book that made you cry in public? Or the series that basically raised you? In this episode, Kelton and Krisserin crack open their bookish brains and spill on the stories that stuck. From Kelton's pirate adventures to Krisserin's Victorian classics, they dive into their most formative reads and discuss how they schedule reading time between parenting and work. They share their comprehensive TBR lists, debate whether book adaptations ever live up to the hype, and reveal which authors make their "literary red flag" list (looking at you, Catcher in the Rye fans). Whether you're an epic fantasy lover finishing Robin Hobb's sixteenth book or just trying to squeeze in a chapter during naptime, this conversation explores our personal relationships with books and how they shape our writing lives. Bring your book recs and a beverage, because it's basically a cozy book club now.

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

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Embracing your weird & finding your readers

Pen Pals — Tue, 29 Apr 2025 13:00:00 GMT

Kelton shares the tough news of losing a client to AI, leading to a powerful discussion about finding and embracing your unique voice as a writer. The hosts explore writing about personal obsessions - from desert landscapes to intrusive thoughts - and how 'writing your weird' attracts the right readers. Krisserin finds her first alpha readers (including her mom!), they analyze Miranda July's boundary-pushing novel 'All Fours,' share tips for building a Substack audience, and Kelton explains how she uses tarot for creative guidance. Goals: Kelton balances job hunting with writing during nap times, while Krisserin searches for comp titles at the bookstore.

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

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Book Battles: Genres, Trends, and IP Theft

Pen Pals — Tue, 22 Apr 2025 12:00:00 GMT

Krisserin celebrates completing her manuscript while Kelton makes significant progress on her novel. They tackle the challenging questions of where your book belongs in the literary marketplace, whether to read in your genre while writing, and how to position your work among similar titles. The hosts dive into Lynne Freeman's IP theft lawsuit against bestselling author Tracey Wolff and Wolff's agent Emily Sylvan Kim of Prospect Agency, discussing its implications for writers. Plus, they debate the importance of comp titles, and answer listener questions about writing motivation and organization tools. Join them for an honest conversation about navigating the competitive world of publishing without losing your creative vision.

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

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Smash or Pass: Literary Edition

Pen Pals — Tue, 15 Apr 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode, Krisserin and Kelton catch up on their writing progress before diving into a spirited round of "Smash or Pass" with a literary twist. They debate everything from writing in book margins and killing off main characters to dream sequences and unreliable narrators. The conversation shifts to rapid-fire opinions on popular authors like Andy Weir, Sarah J. Maas, Emily Henry, and more. Krisserin shares her plan to finish revising her novel, while Kelton commits to writing 2,000 words in the coming week. Plus, they discuss the challenges of query letters and the joy of reading what you love versus what you "should" read.

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

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The Outliner vs. The Pantser

Pen Pals — Tue, 08 Apr 2025 12:37:47 GMT

In this episode, Kelton and Krisserin flip the script on their expected writing styles, revealing that organized Krisserin is actually a passionate pantser while project-manager Kelton has embraced the power of outlining. They candidly dissect how these approaches shape their creative processes—from Krisserin feeling her way through first drafts to Kelton's revelation that structure finally helped her break through long-standing writing blocks. The hosts share how place profoundly inspires their work, whether it's Krisserin's formative desert years or Kelton's deep dives into local cemetery histories. They discuss the essential components of compelling stories, debate the merits of chronological writing versus scene-jumping, and confess their personal writing struggles (tense inconsistencies, anyone?). Along the way, they answer listener questions about creative inspiration and writing crutches while setting ambitious weekly word count goals. Whether you're team outline with color-coded stickies or team follow-your-characters-into-the-unknown, this conversation offers reassurance that there's no single "right way" to bring your stories to life—just the way that actually gets words on the page.

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Literary Pathways: AWP Bonus Episode

Pen Pals — Thu, 03 Apr 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this special bonus episode, Krisserin takes you on a journey through the 2025 AWP Conference in Los Angeles, where she sought out the voices on the edges of the literary world rather than the mainstream publishing houses. From self-published epic fantasy writer Omari Richards to the undergraduate editors of Rock and Sling, from Chelsea Hodson's innovative Rose Books to Chiwan Choi's bold assertion that "in 2025, we no longer need permission to publish our work," these conversations reveal the many paths to getting your words into the world. Join Krisserin as she discovers that beyond the intimidating crowd of 12,000 writers lies a vibrant ecosystem of indie presses, writing communities, and alternative MFA programs that are redefining what it means to be published in today's literary landscape.

Featured Interviews:

Omari Richards, Author of "The Kimoni Legacy Book One: Initiation"
Website: omari-richards.com
Instagram: @omari_a_richards

Rock and Sling Literary Journal (Whitworth University)
Website: rockandsling.com
Instagram: @rock.and.sling

Zachary Jensen
Website: angelcityreview.com
Instagram: @angelcityreview

Harrison Gale, Creative and Business Director of The Book Incubator
Website: thebookincubator.com
Instagram: @book.incubator

Avitus B. Carle, Author of "These Worn Bodies"
Website: avitusbcarle.com
Instagram: @avitusbcarle

Victoria Bustamonte
MFA Program Coordinator for the Creative Writing Department at the Institute of American Indian Arts (IAIA)
Website: iaia.edu

Chiwan Choi, Author of "Sky Songs"
Writ Large Projects (formerly Writ Large Press)
Website: writlargeprojects.org
Instagram: @chiwan

Flo, Programming for Wendy's Subway
Website: wendyssubway.com
Instagram: @wendyssubway

Chelsea Hodson, Publisher of Rose Books. Author and creator of Morning Writing Club
Rose Books: rosebooks.co
Morning Writing Club: morningwritingclub.com
Instagram: @chelseahodson_

Amy Brill, Author of "The Movement of Stars"
Website: amybrill.com
Instagram: @amybrillbk

Thank you for listening to this special bonus episode! If you enjoyed these conversations about alternative paths to publishing, please subscribe to our podcast and share with other writers in your community.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Slump City: Population You (And Every Other Writer)

Pen Pals — Tue, 01 Apr 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this candid conversation, Kelton and Krisserin explore the inevitable writing slumps that all creators face. They share their personal experiences with creative blocks—from Kelton's newsletter struggles to Krisserin's post-querying paralysis—and offer practical strategies for pushing through. The hosts discuss how deadlines, accountability partners, and reconnecting with what you love about your work can reignite your creative spark. Plus, Krisserin takes us behind the scenes at the AWP conference in Los Angeles, where she found unexpected encouragement among thousands of aspiring writers. Whether you're feeling like your creative fire has dimmed to embers or you're stockpiling matches for the inevitable dark days ahead, this episode serves up the unfiltered truth about creative dry spells with a side of practical hope. As Kelton and Krisserin remind us—sometimes the best writing happens when you're feeling your way through the dark, one word at a time.

Get in contact with us at: officialpenpalspod@gmail.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

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The Imposter's Guide to Writing Anyway

Pen Pals — Tue, 25 Mar 2025 12:16:23 GMT

In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton confront the demons of self-doubt that haunt their writing lives. Between morning pages and late-night edits, they unpack their deepest insecurities: Krisserin fears her technically-sound writing lacks soul, while Kelton wonders if she knows how to craft a novel at all. They swap strategies for silencing the critics – both external and internal – from reading work aloud to find its rhythm, to using other art as a 'pulley system' to escape creative ditches. Through tales of childhood competitive classmates and bosses who demanded humility after success, they recognize how much of their imposter syndrome comes from voices outside themselves. With their new approach of assigning each other goals, Krisserin commits to editing two specific chapters while maintaining her 5AM writing routine, and Kelton agrees to brain-dump her novel's treatment before tackling 1,500 new words. As they navigate their writing journeys, they discover that sometimes the most difficult character to write convincingly is the one who believes in herself.

Get in contact with us at: officialpenpalspod@gmail.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

The Financial Reality of Writing Dreams

Pen Pals — Tue, 18 Mar 2025 12:00:00 GMT

In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton strip away the taboo of talking money in the literary world, tallying up the true cost of chasing publishing dreams. While Krisserin calculates the sobering $25,000 she's invested over thirteen years of classes, workshops, and editing services, Kelton weighs whether to accept a lucrative two-month project that would fatten her bank account but starve her novel of attention. Between tales of $3,000 writing retreats in Guatemala (where you're "hostage at a desk") and $1,800 workshops where esteemed authors might nod approvingly at your prose, they explore whether the path to publication is paved with privilege or accessible to all. The friends trade wisdom on free alternatives while confronting the reality that sometimes your 401K and your novel-in-progress are competing investments. Plus: Krisserin celebrates typing "THE END" on her manuscript, Kelton's color-coded Post-it wall earns her two precious hours of writing time, and they assign each other ambitious but achievable goals while acknowledging that sometimes, the best writing investment is simply time to let your ideas compost.

Get in contact with us at: officialpenpalspod@gmail.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

The Frodo Principle: Why No Writer Makes the Journey Alone

Pen Pals — Tue, 11 Mar 2025 12:17:28 GMT

In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton tackle the sometimes awkward, often necessary world of building community and platform as writers. From Kelton's viral dog video that landed her in 'algorithm jail' to Krisserin's anxiety about attending the AWP, they explore the reality behind the numbers game of social media followings and the genuine connections that truly matter in publishing. The duo shares insights on building authentic relationships—whether through cold-emailing authors you admire or joining writing challenges like NaNoWriMo. Whether you're an Instagram influencer or a reclusive novelist, they remind us that the writing journey requires buddies to lift you up, validate your work, and occasionally tell you to 'wake the f*ck up.' Plus: Krisserin's spreadsheet triumph, Kelton's plan to organize scenes with post-it notes on the wall, and their shared ambitious goals for manuscript completion.

Get in contact with us at: officialpenpalspod@gmail.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Literary Side Quests: When Distractions Derail Your Writing

Pen Pals — Tue, 04 Mar 2025 13:13:53 GMT

In this episode of Pen Pals, Kelton and Krisserin confront their greatest writing nemesis: distraction. While Kelton battles the twin challenges of a baby learning to poop and the allure of raccoon videos on her explore page, Krisserin struggles with 5 AM wake-up calls sabotaged by six-year-olds and structural uncertainties that leave her cursor blinking like a silent judge. The friends trade confessions about missed goals, with Kelton celebrating her modest 700 words amid sleepless nights, and Krisserin admitting defeat against her ambitious three-part to-do list. They explore how money worries, family demands, and self-doubt conspire against creativity, exchanging strategies from Kelton's desperate burpees to Krisserin's garage sanctuary. Through their characteristic mix of commiseration and tough love, the pair reveal that sometimes the biggest distraction isn't a tiny hand stealing your writing time - it's the voice in your head telling you your work isn't good enough to continue.

Get in contact with us at: officialpenpalspod@gmail.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

The Assassin at the Dinner Table

Pen Pals — Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:58:44 GMT

What happens when writers turn their pen toward family and friends? Kelton and Krisserin dive deep into the ethics and artistry of writing about real people - from Kelton's dating blog adventures to Krisserin's fictionalized family histories. They explore the delicate balance between honesty and respect, discuss generational trauma in storytelling, and debate when to ask permission versus beg forgiveness. Plus: the perils of pulling turds from tiny butts, the joy of 5 AM writing sessions, and why having a writer in the family is like having an assassin at the dinner table.

Get in contact with us at: officialpenpalspod@gmail.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

The Art of Taking a Punch

Pen Pals — Tue, 18 Feb 2025 13:00:00 GMT

In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton navigate the treacherous waters of writing workshops and editing, trading war stories about feedback that made them stronger (or at least made them cry in their cars). While Krisserin advocates for the safety of structured workshops and multiple drafts, Kelton embraces the wild west of publishing personal essays straight into the void - death threats and all. The friends set new goals: Kelton plans to leverage her in-laws' babysitting powers for seven solid hours of writing, while Krisserin commits to 5AM writing sessions (with accountability texts to prove it.

Get in contact with us at: officialpenpalspod@gmail.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Good Enough to Get Ghosted For a Year

Pen Pals — Tue, 11 Feb 2025 13:00:00 GMT

In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton unpack what it really means to "be published," trading stories from their own winding paths through the writing world. While Kelton reflects on her journey from anonymous Tumblr confessions to bylines in The Guardian, Krisserin shares a fresh rejection letter from her year-long query journey and contemplates the various doors (and price tags) to literary success. The friends explore how privilege shapes access to traditional publishing paths, debate the value of MFAs versus real-world experience, and celebrate Kelton's impressive feat of writing 724 words one-handed while nursing her baby. Their candid conversation reveals the messy truth behind those coveted "published author" credentials, ultimately suggesting that maybe the best path forward is the one you forge yourself - whether that's through perfectly crafted queries or late-night phone typing sessions. Through their characteristic mix of humor, frustration, and unwavering support, Krisserin and Kelton demonstrate that even the most daunting publishing dreams feel more achievable with a friend to commiserate with along the way.

Get in contact with us at: officialpenpalspod@gmail.com
Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com

Be My Disappointed Dad

Pen Pals — Sat, 01 Feb 2025 20:06:47 GMT

In this debut episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton launch their shared mission to support each other through the journey of publishing their first novels. While Kelton tracks her progress through word counts and steals writing moments between baby naps, Krisserin creates elaborate rituals with perfectly curated playlists and emotional support beverages to get into her creative zone.

The friends establish their weekly accountability system, with Kelton diving into her first novel filled with magic and mystery, and Krisserin tackling revisions on a critical first chapter for upcoming workshop submissions. Their honest conversation about writing processes and goal-setting sets the tone for a podcast dedicated to making the path to publication less solitary - and a lot more fun. Through their different approaches to the same dream, Krisserin and Kelton show that the journey to becoming a published novelist is better with a friend by your side.

Get in contact with us at: officialpenpalspod@gmail.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit penpalspod.substack.com