After watching the America’s Next Top Model docuseries, I found myself revisiting a familiar tension: why does our culture immediately narrow harm to a single person? Why do we focus on character and intention while leaving the system untouched?

From ANTM to Ray Rice, from Puffy to the BAFTAs, from elite training pipelines to the Epstein files, this episode examines how white supremacy and rugged individualism train us to isolate blame — and how that reflex protects power.

Oppressed people do not have the luxury of interpreting injustice as a series of bad actors. We experience repetition. Repetition reveals pattern. Pattern reveals structure.

As an intersectional leader, I center systems change — not reform. Reform tweaks behavior. Systems change redesigns architecture.

In this episode, I explore:

* Why individualization is a function of white supremacy

* How rugged individualism undermines thrivable leadership

* What elite pipelines reveal about vulnerability and ambition

* Why intuition and empathy are essential diagnostic tools

* The Ladder Leadership lesson that moves us from reaction to redesign

If we only remove the offender, we preserve the system.

Intersectional leadership demands something more.

Listen now.

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In the face of so much pain and state-sponsored terror, Nataki Garrett pauses to share a story about Black love.

Recorded after an evening out to dinner with two other Black couples, this episode reflects on the quiet power of listening to Black people tell the stories of how they found each other. Nataki explores how Black love is so often framed as service, sacrifice, or survival—and what it means to speak instead about love as joy, risk, choice, and being seen.

Through personal reflection on meeting her husband, the role of community in love, and the experience of waking up knowing she is loved without condition, Nataki offers a reminder as we move into Black History Month:

We are love.

And that is our birthright.

But this morning, a Artistic Leader friend (it’s late and I didn’t ask permission to reveal their name) and someone I deeply admire and respect sent me a text—with a post attached—and every once in a while, you just have to respond.

Im taking a quick moment to return to the folks who actually lived and understood revolution—who knew it was about love and discipline and risk and responsibility, not safety and comfort and fear.

Also, duende. Because when leadership language gets too tidy, it’s usually protecting safety.

Subscribe to Be a Ladder Leader — all proceeds go directly to supporting my Pay It Forward coaching program, which provides up to 85% off coaching for nonprofit arts leaders and organizations doing vital, underrecognized work

You can also learn more about my coaching and download your free guide, Called to Lead: A Re-Visioning Blueprint, at https://coaching.natakigarrett.com/lls.

If this podcast resonates with you, help us spread the word by taking a moment to subscribe, rate, and review We Come to Lead on Substack, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you’re listening.

Show Notes:

* Che Guevara on love as the heartbeat of revolution — Che Guevara, as quoted on Lib Quotes: “At the risk of seeming ridiculous…” (link)

* bell hooks on choosing love against domination — bell hooks, Outlaw Culture: Resisting Representations (quote on Lib Quotes) (link)

* Martin Luther King Jr. on power and love — Where Do We Go From Here (primary text PDF) (link)

* Assata Shakur’s “Affirmation” — from Assata: An Autobiography via LoveandRageMedia (link)

* Federico García Lorca on duende — Theory and Play of the Duende (translated text) (link)

*

In this episode of We Come to Lead series Voices from the Top Rung, host Nataki Garrett sits down with trailblazing arts leader, consultant, healer, and author Lynette A. Turner.

For more than three decades, Lynette has shaped American theatre and the national arts landscape—as one of the first Black women Producing Directors at a major PWI regional theatre, a senior associate at AMS Planning & Research, and now as founder of Positive Bliss, where she supports leaders through mindfulness, healing, and intentional living.

Topics We Cover:

• Lynette’s journey from actor and choreographer to Producing Director in the 1980s

• Being one of the first Black women in executive theatre leadership

• Her 26-year consulting career at AMS and the impact of lived expertise

• Coaching Nataki during her OSF tenure and navigating unprecedented scrutiny and resistance

• Rest, breathwork, and mindfulness as essential leadership tools

• The spiritual, emotional, and political realities of leading inside systems not built for you

• How Lynette reclaimed her voice and calling through healing work

• Her vision of legacy, joy, and meaningful dialogue

Featured Resources:

• Lynette’s website (Positive Bliss): https://www.positivebliss.com

• Lynette on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynette-turner-904a5b6/

• AMS Planning & Research tribute:

https://www.ams-planning.com/ams-celebrates-35-years-and-honors-sr-associate-lynette-a-turner/

• Book by Lynette Turner: The Ten Be’s of Positivity: 10 Steps to a More Positive Way of Living

• Referenced book: Rest Is Resistance by Tricia Hersey

This is a powerful, honest, and deeply grounding conversation about leadership, rest, resilience, and the courage to stay whole while leading through change.

Subscribe to Nataki’s newsletter:

Be a Ladder Leader on Substack — join a growing community committed to liberatory leadership and systems that help people thrive.

Feel free to upgrade to a paid subscription on Substack — all proceeds go directly to supporting my Pay It Forward coaching program, which provides up to 85% off coaching for nonprofit arts leaders and organizations doing vital, underrecognized work.

You can also learn more about my coaching and download your free guide, Called to Lead: A Re-Visioning Blueprint, at https://coaching.natakigarrett.com/lls.

If you’ve ever had to shrink your brilliance to fit a space that wasn’t built for you — this one’s for you.

You can share your reflections on my Substack, Be a Ladder Leader → upgrade to a paid subscription on Substack — all proceeds go directly to supporting my Pay It Forward coaching program, which provides up to 85% off coaching for nonprofit arts leaders and organizations doing vital, underrecognized work

You can also learn more about my coaching and download your free guide, Called to Lead: A Re-Visioning Blueprint, at https://coaching.natakigarrett.com/lls.

If this podcast resonates with you, help us spread the word by taking a moment to subscribe, rate, and review We Come to Lead on Substack, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you’re listening.

So join us on the next episode where we hear from Pati Navalta, founder of Navalta Media.

Pati is a two-time Pulitzer Prize-nominated journalist, a nationally respected communications strategist, and someone who’s spent her career helping leaders and organizations navigate the public square with clarity, integrity, and power. She’s also the strategist I turned to when I needed to reframe the attacks being leveled against my leadership—and reclaim the truth of my story.

In this episode, we talk about:

* Why personal PR isn’t vanity—it’s survival

* How race and identity shape public narratives

* What leaders need to understand about silence, credibility, and media framing

* And how to proactively shape your leadership story before someone else writes it for you

This conversation is rich with truth, strategy, and practical wisdom for anyone trying to lead boldly and be seen clearly.

Listen in. Subscribe. Share.

Voices from the Top Rung begins with someone who knows exactly how to help leaders rise.

I sit down with the fierce and formidable Pati Navalta of Navalta Media. She breaks down why owning your story — and knowing exactly who you are — isn’t optional, it’s essential.

This fierce, full, and F🔥 episode drops Monday.

Stay tuned.

In this solo episode, I’m naming the quiet, exhausting truth: that for many of us, leading means carrying more than just responsibility. It means navigating systems that were never designed for us, confronting bias disguised as feedback, and sometimes being betrayed by the very people who should have our back.

This one’s about the cost of being visible, the harm that happens inside our communities, and why I built the Ladder Leadership Approach to support leaders like us—for real.

But I don’t stop there.

I share how we push back. How we build support. How we lead anyway.

This one is real. And it’s for anyone ready to lead with more clarity, care, and power.

for more information about my services visit www.natakigarrett.com/theladder

What do you do when the emails stop, but your body is still bracing for impact?

In this episode, I talk about the quiet, often invisible work of healing after professional violence. I share what I lost—my ability to listen to music, to write poetry, to feel like myself—and how I slowly gave myself permission to rest, retreat, and return.

I speak honestly about what it means when your artistry is used against you, when your vision is framed as a liability, and when the systems you trusted to hold you instead tear you apart.

But this episode is also about what begins again.

The music that comes back.

The poem that finds you.

The moment you realize you don’t have to prove your resilience to anyone—not anymore.

This is for the leaders who feel broken open.

For the artists who can’t access their art.

For anyone who needs to hear: you are still whole. You are still here.

Ready to begin your healing?

I offer tools, support, and community to help leaders reclaim their clarity, artistry, and joy.

🌱 Explore offerings or join the Jumpstart Membership

You deserve more than survival.

You deserve your full self.

But what happens when they don’t?

What happens when the very systems you were hired to transform turn on you?

In this episode, I speak directly to the leader who’s been targeted, silenced, undermined—or simply worn down by the quiet violence of institutional resistance. I share what I’ve lived: navigating backlash from donors, retaliation from boards, and the betrayal of legacy institutions that claimed to value equity.

I talk about how we survive in public while grieving in private.

This episode is not a blueprint—it’s a lifeline.

We begin with grace, not a checklist.

We slow down.

We name the harm.

And we reclaim our agency.

I share what I’ve come to call the three elements every leader in crisis must reclaim:

Safety. Story. Strategy.

Not as a framework—but as survival.

If you’re navigating sabotage, crisis, or quiet collapse, this episode is for you.

You are not the crisis.

You are navigating one.

And you do not have to do it alone.

If this episode spoke to something you’ve lived through—or are living through now—share it.

Forward it to a colleague, a friend, or a fellow leader who needs to know: they are not alone.

Also you can Join the Jumpstart - a monthly membership community with access to:

* Visioning tools, strategy map, and leadership self-assessment

* Monthly inspiration drops and private podcast access

* Discounts on select tools in the Rise & Thrive Bookstore

This episode is a reminder:

You don’t need to wait for permission to lead differently.

You are the permission.

Join the Jumpstart Member Community : HERE

Learn more about my Premiere Coaching: ELEVATE

She shares the personal and professional catalysts that led her to create Ladder Leadership—a coaching platform built for those navigating toxic systems, carrying transformational visions, and leading at the edge. With honesty and clarity, Nataki breaks down how systemic bias, professional violence, and silence clauses isolate ousted leaders, and why access to coaching before the breakdown is a radical act of care, strategy, and survival.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone questioning why leadership feels so lonely—and what we can do to change that.

For more information about Ladder Leadership visit www.natakigarrett.com/theladder

In this episode of We Come to Lead, I ask the hard question:

Are we a country, a culture, a people who need collapse to finally believe the warnings?

I’ve been in rooms where qualified leadership was met with skepticism. Where vision was treated as fiction. Where the fire alarms I sounded were dismissed—until the building started to burn.

This episode is about that pattern.

It’s about the way belief gets delayed.

And the cost of that delay—on people, organizations, and entire systems.

I share my own experiences of being underestimated while trying to lead us away from crisis, and I bring in the voices of people I trust—leaders, artists, organizers—who have witnessed the same pattern play out again and again.

We talk about:

• The cultural fear of proactive leadership

• How unconscious bias disguises itself as “due process”

• What it means to be visionary and still be dismissed

• And how much further along we’d be if we trusted wisdom from anywhere, not just the top of the hierarchy

If you’ve ever led with clarity and been met with disbelief, this episode is for you.

And if you’ve ever ignored the warning signs because the truth felt too early, too uncomfortable, or too unfamiliar—this is your invitation to listen differently.

Don’t let the latest news about what’s happening fool you—real leadership isn’t about power hoarding or standing alone at the top. It’s built by and for the collective. This week, we’re talking about what it means to Ascend the Ladder with intention and Be a Ladder for those coming after us. Because leadership isn’t just about rising—it’s about making sure no one climbs alone.