Put your email in the thing and meet more interesting people.

Today’s guest is my very first work friend,

(00:00:38):

who went on to quit that job,

(00:00:40):

join a cool Silicon Valley startup,

(00:00:42):

and move in with homeless people.

(00:00:45):

Kylie Sheehy.

(00:00:47):

I can’t hear you.

(00:00:48):

This is off to an awesome start.

(00:00:51):

Here, is it?

(00:00:51):

Did I fix it?

(00:00:52):

Yeah, there you go.

(00:00:53):

There we go.

(00:00:54):

Okay.

(00:00:55):

I got a lot of microphones.

(00:00:56):

I’m just like very savvy and technologically advanced.

(00:01:00):

Well I can tell because you got like some weird headset and what’s your fake

(00:01:04):

background fading in and out of?

(00:01:07):

This is actually a screenshot I took of a team’s background that I like better but

(00:01:16):

then when it’s too small for Zoom so it’s so vixly it looks absolutely fake but

(00:01:23):

that’s what we got.

(00:01:25):

So you’re like pretending to be in some random apartment?

(00:01:29):

It could be my apartment.

(00:01:31):

Yeah,

(00:01:31):

but we know it’s not because it’s like every time you move it goes like the

(00:01:34):

background is this.

(00:01:36):

Maybe I live in the future.

(00:01:39):

Where nothing works.

(00:01:41):

Technology is even worse.

(00:01:43):

It’s all been broken and it’s going to kill us.

(00:01:46):

Yeah, that sounds like the present day and the future.

(00:01:50):

See?

(00:01:52):

Get on my level.

(00:01:54):

I think we’re recording.

(00:01:55):

I don’t even know.

(00:01:56):

This is the first time I’ve ever done anything on Zoom,

(00:01:57):

and I’ve discovered that the lighting in my office is awful for this.

(00:02:01):

So I think this is going to be an audio podcast.

(00:02:04):

I don’t know what I prefer.

(00:02:06):

Well, good, because your background is making it definitely audio podcast worthy.

(00:02:14):

It’s like you’re doing a snow angel in your background, everything you move your arms.

(00:02:20):

Kylie Sheehy, what makes you interesting?

(00:02:22):

All kinds of things.

(00:02:26):

All right so you were born where are you even from yeah great question that’s the

(00:02:35):

first thing that makes me interesting I think uh so it’s really just one of my

(00:02:39):

superpowers uh that I can be from any hometown at any moment in time I was born in

(00:02:46):

Kansas City Kansas and then uh not even the good Kansas City the bad one

(00:02:52):

The good one.

(00:02:53):

They’re all fine.

(00:02:53):

They’re all top notch and they’re all tied for first and then moved to North

(00:03:00):

Carolina and then moved to Georgia and then Texas and then Kansas for a short stint

(00:03:08):

and then Washington State and then D.C.

(00:03:13):

then like Northern Virginia area and then Michigan and then back to Kansas for

(00:03:19):

school and then

(00:03:20):

Cincinnati for a couple of years and then uh San Francisco and then Austin Wow I

(00:03:28):

didn’t I thought it was like three places it’s even worse than I thought no it’s

(00:03:32):

better than you thought yeah did you say Detroit don’t you live in Detroit too um

(00:03:38):

my parents live in Detroit Michigan is Detroit is in Michigan so when I said

(00:03:42):

Michigan that’s what I meant yeah

(00:03:44):

Okay, I wasn’t, this is already a really boring podcast.

(00:03:47):

I wasn’t even really listening to all that.

(00:03:49):

No, that’s interesting.

(00:03:50):

So anytime I get into an Uber, someone’s like, oh, I’m from like, whatever.

(00:03:53):

I just moved here.

(00:03:54):

I’m like, oh my God, me too.

(00:03:55):

And then we’re best friends.

(00:03:57):

What, yeah.

(00:03:58):

What makes you want to be from the Midwest so bad?

(00:03:59):

I feel like maybe it’s just you saying that to be like,

(00:04:04):

trying to like find some common ground with me.

(00:04:05):

But I feel like you always want to claim the Midwest,

(00:04:07):

even though it’s like the fourth most frequent place that you’ve lived at.

(00:04:13):

I would say I really lean into being one of the supervillains who moved from the

(00:04:17):

Bay Area to Austin.

(00:04:18):

That’s one of my favorite things.

(00:04:19):

That’s like what I like to claim as my my my home, just like as like a concept.

(00:04:28):

And then I actively tried to remove the Midwest from my my pedigree.

(00:04:32):

Yeah.

(00:04:34):

Oh,

(00:04:34):

so you’re not Midwest now because you were all about it when we first became

(00:04:37):

friends,

(00:04:37):

but you moved on.

(00:04:38):

It’s tough.

(00:04:39):

It’s tough because it like comes out of me because it’s just who I am and who my family is.

(00:04:43):

But yeah, like on paper, I prefer to be much more glamorously from elsewhere.

(00:04:52):

Okay, nevermind.

(00:04:53):

I’ve already like, you’re already a different person than I thought you were.

(00:04:55):

So your dad, your dad was, all right, it was, was it an army ranger?

(00:05:00):

What was your dad?

(00:05:01):

Okay, because I think everyone could probably figure this out.

(00:05:03):

Whenever you’re from a thousand places, you’re either like homeless or in the army, military.

(00:05:09):

So I’m guessing it’s the latter of the two.

(00:05:11):

Yeah.

(00:05:13):

Which, what is former and latter?

(00:05:15):

I don’t remember.

(00:05:15):

But like,

(00:05:16):

interestingly,

(00:05:16):

another thing that makes me interesting is that I do live among the homeless,

(00:05:19):

formerly homeless.

(00:05:21):

So like, we’re kindred spirits in a sense.

(00:05:24):

Okay, we’ll get to that part.

(00:05:25):

I got like, I got like notes, okay?

(00:05:26):

I made notes here.

(00:05:28):

So what was your dad’s job that made you like never at home anywhere you were ever at?

(00:05:34):

He was in the army.

(00:05:35):

He was doing army stuff.

(00:05:36):

We actually like had a very long conversation the last time I was home because I

(00:05:39):

was like,

(00:05:40):

you never told us what your job was.

(00:05:43):

And he was like, well, I wasn’t allowed to.

(00:05:45):

And I was like, okay.

(00:05:47):

He was a ranger, right?

(00:05:48):

Because I remember like he used to put around an army ranger water bottle.

(00:05:51):

Yeah, my sick water bottle.

(00:05:53):

No, Wayne Garrett got mad one day because he was like, what are you doing?

(00:05:57):

And I was like, my dad is a ranger.

(00:05:59):

And he was like, oh, sorry.

(00:06:01):

Yeah, so we were at a work.

(00:06:05):

Yeah,

(00:06:05):

for all my three people that are going to listen to this that weren’t in the room

(00:06:08):

at the time that happened.

(00:06:09):

So we were at a work training where Kyle and I became friends.

(00:06:12):

And you had an Army Ranger water bottle.

(00:06:14):

And we had this former, what do you know, West Point grad.

(00:06:18):

He was a West Pointer, but I don’t know what he did beyond that.

(00:06:21):

I don’t think I don’t think he did anything beyond that.

(00:06:25):

Because he went to West Point,

(00:06:26):

but then he pretty much jumped ship to 100% tailored suits and corporate American

(00:06:33):

private jet life.

(00:06:34):

To be the director of sales for any product line that they thought that he should

(00:06:39):

be in charge of,

(00:06:40):

even though he may or may not have known what that product line was.

(00:06:43):

He was one of those.

(00:06:44):

Yeah, and he saw your water bottle.

(00:06:46):

He was ready to just jump down your ass about having this illegal water bottle that

(00:06:50):

you don’t deserve to have.

(00:06:52):

And then you pulled rank on him.

(00:06:54):

Yeah no big time I did.

(00:06:56):

So what makes a ranger cool?

(00:06:58):

I feel like something about what he said was like you didn’t earn that or something

(00:07:02):

and I was like okay and then yeah and then dunked on him.

(00:07:07):

I got it from my dad who’s way cooler than you.

(00:07:11):

I never had a home my entire adolescence because my dad was busy serving the

(00:07:15):

country and defending your rights wing from the jungle and doing rangery stuff.

(00:07:22):

So what does an armor range even do?

(00:07:23):

Like, I know, like, the Green Berets and the Navy Seals.

(00:07:25):

I thought this interview was about me.

(00:07:27):

This is not my job.

(00:07:28):

Yeah, but this is the interesting stuff.

(00:07:31):

The interesting stuff is,

(00:07:32):

like,

(00:07:32):

why is your dad,

(00:07:32):

because,

(00:07:33):

all right,

(00:07:33):

so,

(00:07:33):

like,

(00:07:33):

I got,

(00:07:34):

like,

(00:07:34):

eight things about Colonel Sheehy,

(00:07:35):

because I remember you said that it’s all you’d ever talk about when I first got to

(00:07:38):

know you.

(00:07:39):

You said that he pitched the first pitch at a Detroit Tigers baseball game, and I went, what?

(00:07:43):

And you went, well, yeah, Colonel Sheehy has done a bunch of badass s**t.

(00:07:48):

So that’s all I know about

(00:07:50):

I feel like your origin story is very much in tune with having a dad that was cool

(00:07:55):

enough to get an Army Rangers water bottle and do the opening pitch in a Tigers

(00:07:59):

game.

(00:08:00):

Well,

(00:08:00):

my origin story,

(00:08:01):

another thing that makes me interesting,

(00:08:03):

my origin story,

(00:08:05):

I don’t know if this is in your notes or if I’m skipping around too much.

(00:08:08):

Oh, yeah.

(00:08:08):

Well, this is a very tight ship.

(00:08:11):

So if you skip around, I’ll bring you back in.

(00:08:14):

My origin story, my dad was in the Persian Gulf when my mom was pregnant.

(00:08:19):

My mom had a very hard pregnancy, like almost died.

(00:08:21):

And my dad,

(00:08:24):

depending on your perspective,

(00:08:26):

leaving anyway was either very heroic or very negligent.

(00:08:29):

But it was at the time, it was very patriotic and heroic.

(00:08:31):

And we were like this very solid military family.

(00:08:34):

And my mom was like, go ahead, I’ll be okay.

(00:08:36):

And the other officer’s wives like kind of surrounded her and helped her out.

(00:08:40):

And but she just had a very hard pregnancy.

(00:08:42):

So she ended up moving back to Kansas where she’s from.

(00:08:46):

And when I was born,

(00:08:48):

there was like a big to do in the Kansas City Star about whether my dad was going

(00:08:53):

to make it or whether I was going to be born like before he got back.

(00:08:56):

And it was like a cover story.

(00:08:58):

I was like a little famous fetus.

(00:09:00):

And then I was a famous new baby and toddler because they kept like checking in on us.

(00:09:04):

And so then when I was I didn’t know it was supposed to be deployed for like

(00:09:08):

exactly nine months.

(00:09:09):

Like what was the I don’t know.

(00:09:12):

I don’t know.

(00:09:12):

It’s like how I wasn’t there yet.

(00:09:14):

Okay.

(00:09:16):

So he was gonna make it back.

(00:09:19):

And then, yeah, he was gonna make it back.

(00:09:22):

It was a big cover story.

(00:09:23):

And so then by the time he was like the news,

(00:09:25):

I got out that this like veteran was coming home,

(00:09:27):

like there’s all these like news stations and stuff like at my Nani and Papa’s

(00:09:31):

house.

(00:09:32):

And then my mom was on the TV all the time.

(00:09:33):

And she hates it because she was just like,

(00:09:36):

She’s very short.

(00:09:36):

So she was like huge and pregnant.

(00:09:38):

She was like, I hate these cameras in my face.

(00:09:41):

But then I was born March 15th.

(00:09:43):

And then my very first like homecoming was a huge St.

(00:09:47):

Patrick’s Day party on March 17th for St.

(00:09:49):

Patrick’s Day.

(00:09:49):

So like my origin story is full of a lot of really compelling lore.

(00:09:54):

So it’s like the at the zoo and it’s like baby watch for the baby gorilla.

(00:09:57):

And I was super excited about it.

(00:09:59):

But you were the baby gorilla.

(00:10:00):

I was a baby human child.

(00:10:01):

Yes.

(00:10:02):

Okay,

(00:10:02):

did they do the thing where they ask all the giant donors to submit weird African

(00:10:06):

names to name the baby gorilla?

(00:10:08):

Yeah, I went into something that’s much more interesting.

(00:10:11):

Something people can spell correctly.

(00:10:13):

Yeah, I don’t know if Kylie was like, I don’t know, some weird desert in Swahili or something.

(00:10:18):

I’d probably have like a way fatter trust fund if we had just done that.

(00:10:21):

So, okay, so you did that.

(00:10:23):

You were born.

(00:10:25):

Then what happened after you were born?

(00:10:27):

After I was born?

(00:10:28):

That brings us up to you being alive.

(00:10:29):

Yeah, cut to today.

(00:10:35):

Why did you pick Kansas?

(00:10:37):

Was it just the local, the KU thing?

(00:10:39):

Like just because you had family ties there?

(00:10:42):

Or was there something about you that really wanted to be a Kansas Jayhawk?

(00:10:45):

I loved Kansas.

(00:10:46):

I don’t know.

(00:10:46):

It was like one of those things,

(00:10:47):

like when you’re a senior in high school and you’re like,

(00:10:49):

I’m touring campuses,

(00:10:49):

like KU was just where I needed to be.

(00:10:51):

It was awesome.

(00:10:53):

It’s just a beautiful campus.

(00:10:54):

Were you living in Kansas then?

(00:10:56):

No, I was living in Michigan.

(00:10:58):

Okay.

(00:10:59):

Yeah.

(00:10:59):

My dad did Jayhawk and my mom went to K-State.

(00:11:02):

Was it in-state tuition?

(00:11:03):

No, that doesn’t matter.

(00:11:03):

Was it in-state tuition?

(00:11:05):

It was.

(00:11:05):

Again, because my dad was a veteran, so I got in-state at Kansas.

(00:11:11):

Okay.

(00:11:13):

I’ve had three guests, and you’re the second of the three that had that exact same setup.

(00:11:18):

Was it because you had a parent that was military,

(00:11:20):

so you had to do in-state tuition because that was where you were?

(00:11:23):

Well, it wasn’t where I was.

(00:11:24):

Where your parents were from, though, right?

(00:11:26):

Because you had to do it anywhere.

(00:11:28):

I think we could have done it anywhere at the time,

(00:11:30):

like whatever the Obama administration had set up for kids of veterans.

(00:11:33):

It was like any, I think, state school.

(00:11:36):

Okay.

(00:11:37):

You had a way better deal than my first guest, though.

(00:11:39):

Either that or he was way worse at understanding how that program works.

(00:11:43):

That’s, I think, much more possible.

(00:11:45):

Yeah.

(00:11:45):

He’s like, I could only live in Omaha or Hawaii, and I picked Omaha.

(00:11:49):

Yeah, he doesn’t know what’s going on.

(00:11:54):

Do you think he thought Oahu and Omaha were the same place?

(00:11:57):

You might have.

(00:11:58):

I mean, you could listen to the podcast yourself, but you’re never going to.

(00:12:01):

Yeah, you’re definitely not.

(00:12:03):

Okay,

(00:12:04):

so the only,

(00:12:05):

what I know about your time in Kansas,

(00:12:06):

because that’s also all you ever talked about when I was friends with you.

(00:12:10):

Yeah, well, Jay was like peak living.

(00:12:14):

I was, yeah.

(00:12:14):

I mean, I am.

(00:12:15):

It’s for life.

(00:12:17):

Is it really?

(00:12:18):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:12:19):

You’re always, now you’re always a sorority girl.

(00:12:21):

That’s how this works?

(00:12:22):

Yeah, of course.

(00:12:23):

Okay.

(00:12:25):

So.

(00:12:25):

Yeah.

(00:12:27):

Okay so sorority and you’re like you took nuns out to bars to share the gospel.

(00:12:32):

Yeah yeah I did that.

(00:12:33):

Part of your Catholic group.

(00:12:35):

Yes.

(00:12:36):

How’d you talk them into doing that?

(00:12:38):

I mean I still do that.

(00:12:39):

That’s like I’m like trying to go get beers with my friend Father Steve who was

(00:12:44):

just on Jeopardy actually.

(00:12:45):

He yeah I’m gonna go try and get beers with him and my friend Allison in a couple

(00:12:50):

weeks to talk lonesome dub and just

(00:12:52):

Have him out in the public or like I have I am in my tiny house where I live among

(00:12:56):

the homeless formerly homeless of Austin I like brought a bunch of priests over to

(00:13:00):

um to bless my tiny house and they like did confessions for some of my neighbors

(00:13:05):

and they just like talk to them yeah for sure oh yeah that’s like that’s just my

(00:13:09):

norm I’m just like always surrounded by holy holy dudes who can take care of stuff

(00:13:15):

yeah I do I try my hardest or like I had a Christmas party not that long ago and it

(00:13:20):

had shut down

(00:13:22):

And it was, again, at the village.

(00:13:24):

There’s, like, shuttles leaving the Christmas party.

(00:13:27):

And everyone had left.

(00:13:27):

Like, we’re, like, shutting it down.

(00:13:29):

Me and my friend are walking back to my house after we’d walked a bunch of people

(00:13:31):

to the shuttle.

(00:13:31):

And she’s going to help me tear down.

(00:13:33):

And out of the corner of my eye,

(00:13:34):

I see,

(00:13:34):

like,

(00:13:35):

four dudes in collars just,

(00:13:36):

like,

(00:13:37):

sneaking up my patio.

(00:13:38):

And I was like, what the heck?

(00:13:38):

And it was four priests who were like,

(00:13:40):

hey,

(00:13:40):

yeah,

(00:13:40):

we had a bunch of other Christmas parties to get to today.

(00:13:42):

But we wanted to make sure we got here.

(00:13:44):

And so they just shut it down.

(00:13:46):

They just came up.

(00:13:49):

So yeah,

(00:13:49):

you just got to have holy people in your life who show up and want to make sure you

(00:13:53):

make it to heaven.

(00:13:54):

What kind of party is a party with four presets?

(00:14:01):

I mean, they were down.

(00:14:03):

They’re always down.

(00:14:04):

They want to be among the people.

(00:14:05):

They want to know what we’re up to so they can pull us back up and out of it.

(00:14:10):

It’s like them reorienting their mission.

(00:14:12):

Be like, no, there is a place for me.

(00:14:14):

I do have lost sheep to save.

(00:14:17):

Yes, big time.

(00:14:18):

They’re like, well, they’ve wandered way further than we could have even thought.

(00:14:25):

You’ve always been fascinated me for so many reasons.

(00:14:27):

One is you’re my token Catholic friend who I always ask Catholic questions to.

(00:14:31):

And I never really know if I’m getting like,

(00:14:33):

you’re like the,

(00:14:34):

you’re like my version of the Pope.

(00:14:36):

Like my representation of all of Roman Catholicism goes through your interpretation of it.

(00:14:40):

You know, that’s like a dangerous thing.

(00:14:41):

You’re not really supposed to do that.

(00:14:42):

Yeah, it probably is.

(00:14:43):

But I also, I mean, so is the other institution, but you know.

(00:14:47):

No, no.

(00:14:47):

I mean, like anytime you’re like this one person represents the whole deal.

(00:14:51):

It’s like, it’s just like not, it’s not very sound.

(00:14:55):

No?

(00:14:55):

Well, even when it’s you?

(00:14:59):

I’m probably the exception.

(00:15:00):

So in my experience,

(00:15:01):

then,

(00:15:02):

all Catholics are just like you who take a bunch of priests to Christmas parties

(00:15:07):

and priests that have been on Jeopardy.

(00:15:09):

So apparently that’s more common than I think.

(00:15:12):

No, I don’t think so.

(00:15:12):

I think, again, I think I’m exceptional.

(00:15:14):

I’m very interesting.

(00:15:15):

That’s why I’m on this podcast.

(00:15:19):

Do you feel this is going well so far?

(00:15:20):

No, not at all.

(00:15:22):

No, yeah, not at all.

(00:15:25):

What were your uh all right so somewhere between my total unpreparedness for what

(00:15:29):

was going to happen and you like shouting the questions at me am i shouting i don’t

(00:15:34):

know i have this fancy podcast mike and i think it’s just like way better quality

(00:15:37):

than what you’re used to yeah well this is my little like for my um what’s that

(00:15:44):

thing that michael scott did with thickrum you know the phone bank job he moonlit

(00:15:49):

that’s what it reminds me of

(00:15:52):

The headset when he did telemarketing?

(00:15:55):

Telemarketing, that’s the word I’m looking for.

(00:15:57):

Okay.

(00:15:59):

It reminds you of telemarketing.

(00:16:01):

Yeah, me too, now that you say it.

(00:16:06):

That’s another interesting thing.

(00:16:09):

I did that at Kansas.

(00:16:10):

That’s one of the reasons I loved Kansas so much because I had the most bomb-ass

(00:16:13):

job of my whole life.

(00:16:13):

I was like a telemarketer for the Alumni Association, not the Endowment Association.

(00:16:18):

And I would just call alum relentlessly and be like, hey, I’m Kylie.

(00:16:22):

Please give to the university.

(00:16:23):

And they’d be like, okay, you sound great.

(00:16:26):

I feel like everything that you talk about being awesome is stuff that I would hate.

(00:16:30):

Like being a telemarketer, like hanging out with priests.

(00:16:34):

living with homeless people like these all sound terrible to me to be fair I live

(00:16:38):

in my own home well yeah I love living the gospel I think it’s really important to

(00:16:43):

live the beatitudes and like to be a person who has a charitable heart and does

(00:16:48):

good work and also what do you got what do you got for that and also calls people

(00:16:53):

for to give them money well the university needs money how are we going to get

(00:16:57):

these like kids from western Kansas educated

(00:17:01):

That’s the fascinating thing to me.

(00:17:03):

I think a lot of people would resonate with this idea of those are good things,

(00:17:07):

but they’re like,

(00:17:08):

I don’t want to do it.

(00:17:09):

But you do it.

(00:17:10):

You like it.

(00:17:11):

You like this kind of stuff.

(00:17:14):

Yeah.

(00:17:15):

I like actually doing the work instead of watching all these little pussies run

(00:17:18):

around,

(00:17:19):

sniveling about how everything is busted and sitting on their candy bar eating

(00:17:23):

asses all day.

(00:17:27):

Okay, you’ve alluded to it, then I don’t even understand.

(00:17:29):

So what is, what are you, like these homeless people?

(00:17:31):

I mean,

(00:17:32):

now we’re going out of my like little notes here,

(00:17:35):

but talk about your homeless people thing since now we buried the lead.

(00:17:39):

What is your homeless person gig now then?

(00:17:42):

My gig?

(00:17:44):

I am what’s called a missional at...

(00:17:48):

Community First Village in Austin, Texas.

(00:17:50):

So it is a master playing community of tiny homes and PMRVs and the first 3D

(00:17:56):

printed homes in the United States are there.

(00:17:57):

Icon Homes built their houses.

(00:17:59):

Wait, what?

(00:18:00):

Icon?

(00:18:00):

Like legit 3D printed?

(00:18:02):

Yeah,

(00:18:02):

there’s like an arm out there that like squeezes these houses out and my neighbors

(00:18:07):

live in them.

(00:18:08):

Holy cow.

(00:18:09):

Pretty sick.

(00:18:10):

Yeah.

(00:18:11):

One of the gentlemen he just passed.

(00:18:13):

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything 3D print something that’s like larger than a keychain.

(00:18:17):

Yeah, it’s cool.

(00:18:18):

For a while they used to have,

(00:18:20):

now they’re a little bit more comfortable,

(00:18:22):

I think just like generally as a company,

(00:18:23):

but for a long time they would put these huge tarps up because they didn’t want to,

(00:18:26):

or anyone,

(00:18:27):

stealing like their IP and like reverse engineering the process.

(00:18:30):

It’s super cool.

(00:18:31):

They’re made out of this proprietary material called Lavacrete, but I digress.

(00:18:35):

So it’s a master plan community right now there’s like a few there’s like 500 and

(00:18:41):

change homes like ultimately they’re supposed to be like well over 1000.

(00:18:45):

And the mission is empowering communities to live.

(00:18:50):

Oh shoot I know the mission I’m doing a bad job.

(00:18:55):

Empowering communities into a lifestyle of service with the homeless.

(00:18:59):

Empowering communities into a lifestyle of service with the homeless.

(00:19:02):

And so we are really strategically focused on bringing men and women out of

(00:19:08):

homelessness in the Austin,

(00:19:10):

Texas area because all of the research basically supports that homelessness is

(00:19:15):

actually a symptom of a catastrophic loss of family.

(00:19:19):

And while there are like another of other factors that like usually flow from

(00:19:24):

having a catastrophic loss of family or would make a person like homeless,

(00:19:29):

like having a mental or physical disability or dependency on alcohol or drugs or

(00:19:35):

Any other number of things.

(00:19:37):

Or just like traumatic life experience, whatever.

(00:19:40):

It’s really catastrophic loss of family.

(00:19:42):

That’s like the big catalyst for why a person would end up on the streets.

(00:19:45):

So what we, I say loosely, I just live there as like a missional.

(00:19:51):

You, you’re the representative of this entire organization.

(00:19:53):

Again, just me.

(00:19:57):

Not at all.

(00:19:58):

So what Mobile Loves and Fishers and Community First Village is trying to do is

(00:20:02):

like reconstitute,

(00:20:03):

forge family and community for these men and women.

(00:20:07):

And so, yeah, so like the village is out there.

(00:20:09):

It’s very permanent housing.

(00:20:11):

If one of my,

(00:20:11):

if my neighbor wants to live in it for the rest of their lives,

(00:20:14):

like it’s not a halfway house.

(00:20:15):

It’s not a rehab.

(00:20:16):

It’s like, it’s a place where they can live.

(00:20:18):

It’s a neighborhood.

(00:20:18):

Yeah.

(00:20:19):

We have like a little grocery store,

(00:20:21):

we have a bus stop,

(00:20:22):

we have like a little shuttle that runs around the neighborhood because most of my

(00:20:26):

neighbors have physical or mental or both kind of disabilities so it just makes it

(00:20:30):

easier for everybody to get around and it’s also just like hot.

(00:20:34):

By C.S.

(00:20:34):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:35):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:35):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:35):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:36):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:36):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:37):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:38):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:39):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:21:03):

The way people interact with the homeless, which is another big part.

(00:21:09):

So yeah,

(00:21:09):

so I live out there and I like just kind of like live to be of service with my

(00:21:13):

neighbors and walk alongside them and just be a friend.

(00:21:19):

Is it like a mixed income like model?

(00:21:21):

So the idea is like there’s a bunch of people like you that have jobs or whatever

(00:21:25):

and like in similar arrangements with the people that don’t have money.

(00:21:28):

So that way the overall culture is stronger and

(00:21:32):

What not?

(00:21:32):

Is that kind of the idea?

(00:21:33):

Well, kind of.

(00:21:36):

So I feel like your question is ill-informed.

(00:21:38):

Okay, inform me.

(00:21:41):

So my neighbors...

(00:21:44):

By C.S.

(00:21:44):

Beaty

(00:22:05):

Who works at like a very cool hipster Mexican cantina in town and not her name is

(00:22:09):

Kathy and she works at like this restaurant a lot of people work off site like

(00:22:13):

there is a one man who’s standing up his own like car detailing business name is

(00:22:17):

Joseph so there’s like any number of ways that people are making income out there.

(00:22:20):

And they’re all like responsible for their own rent and utilities like any other apartment.

(00:22:26):

But then.

(00:22:29):

There are there’s like so like I said,

(00:22:31):

I’m a missional and there’s probably about 40 other missionals who live out there

(00:22:35):

and they’re kind of a mixed bag of like retired folks or there’s like another woman

(00:22:40):

who’s about my age.

(00:22:42):

But then there’s like a couple of families like there’s all kinds of people who are

(00:22:46):

missionals and are just like out there to be of service in one way or another.

(00:22:50):

So some of them are working full time.

(00:22:51):

Some of them are retired.

(00:22:53):

Some of them are working part time.

(00:22:54):

Some work

(00:22:55):

For Mobile Loaves and Fishes.

(00:22:57):

So yeah,

(00:22:58):

that group is a very mixed bag,

(00:23:00):

but we all kind of have the same charge of empowering communities into a lifestyle

(00:23:05):

of service.

(00:23:06):

Yeah.

(00:23:07):

So is that like you applied for that or you get like, okay.

(00:23:11):

Yeah,

(00:23:11):

it’s like,

(00:23:11):

it’s like a,

(00:23:12):

so there’s an application and then there’s like a year long,

(00:23:14):

we call it a discernment process where you like,

(00:23:18):

there’s like a certain like set of books that you read that are kind of like

(00:23:21):

informative of like what the culture is going to be like,

(00:23:23):

because it’s a very unique place to live,

(00:23:27):

for sure.

(00:23:28):

So yeah,

(00:23:29):

there’s like kind of like a small curriculum of books that you read,

(00:23:32):

you get assigned a mentor with like who you can ask questions,

(00:23:35):

you have to live out there,

(00:23:36):

like,

(00:23:37):

for like,

(00:23:37):

like a week or two weeks,

(00:23:38):

I can’t remember just to like make sure you’re

(00:23:41):

You feel called you have to do like a certain number of volunteer hours like we

(00:23:45):

have like I mentioned the market or there’s a place called the living room where we

(00:23:48):

play like the NBA finals games or we like there’s like a pinball machine or like my

(00:23:53):

one of my friends does like a knitting circle there like so just being like part of

(00:23:56):

the living room or doing whatever and like there’s an art house like Kendra Scott

(00:24:01):

was partnered with the mobile lobes for a long time doing like gig work like my

(00:24:05):

neighbors were making some of the bracelets that went on to sell at Kendra Scott so

(00:24:09):

yeah

(00:24:10):

There’s lots of ways to volunteer and really discern whether that’s the thing that

(00:24:15):

you’re meant to be doing.

(00:24:16):

Backing up, you and I, we met each other.

(00:24:18):

You were doing a sales gig.

(00:24:20):

You actually, I think, hated that, which is ironic.

(00:24:23):

You hated that.

(00:24:25):

Give me the comment how you like all the stuff that other people hate, but you did hate that.

(00:24:27):

I hate that a lot.

(00:24:28):

I think a lot of people hate sales.

(00:24:31):

I do hate sales.

(00:24:36):

You told me you hated it back when you were in it.

(00:24:38):

Yeah, I hated it.

(00:24:39):

I was trying to also tease out that I also hated it, especially in California.

(00:24:44):

The people I worked with was very challenging, super toxic.

(00:24:49):

I left that job, went to a new job.

(00:24:51):

Within the first week I had started that job,

(00:24:53):

got served literally legal papers by this sketchy chain-smoking man who was hanging

(00:24:58):

out outside my office for two days and then had to testify in court against

(00:25:05):

Both the manager who was fired and one who was like quitting because she was like

(00:25:09):

being wrongfully turned.

(00:25:10):

I don’t know.

(00:25:10):

Like it was such a toxic and crazy place.

(00:25:12):

So I was trying.

(00:25:13):

I don’t know if I hate sales.

(00:25:15):

You hated that job.

(00:25:18):

It’s hard to tease that out.

(00:25:19):

I can say that somebody’s been in sales for 15 years.

(00:25:22):

Sometimes you hate sales.

(00:25:23):

Sometimes you just hate being in a company that you’re trying to represent that isn’t terrible.

(00:25:29):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:25:30):

You should totally buy all our stuff because it’s definitely not awful here.

(00:25:33):

This company is definitely not terrible.

(00:25:35):

We’re doing great.

(00:25:37):

Yeah.

(00:25:38):

Okay,

(00:25:40):

so you’re at the Cincinnati office,

(00:25:41):

which you go from Cincinnati,

(00:25:43):

which is according to Tom Brady’s documentary about the Birmingham Blues that I

(00:25:46):

just watched,

(00:25:47):

is a very

(00:25:49):

By C.S.

(00:25:49):

Beaty

(00:26:11):

So he doesn’t know.

(00:26:12):

But anyway,

(00:26:12):

so you go from Cincinnati to Silicon Valley in San Francisco,

(00:26:15):

which is like,

(00:26:16):

you know,

(00:26:16):

I think regardless of Tom Brady’s characterization,

(00:26:19):

very,

(00:26:19):

very different.

(00:26:20):

Is that fair to say?

(00:26:21):

Yeah, I think so.

(00:26:23):

Okay.

(00:26:23):

Yeah.

(00:26:24):

And then you’re totally Silicon Valley now, like you’re working for startups or whatever.

(00:26:28):

Well,

(00:26:28):

you go,

(00:26:29):

you do the,

(00:26:29):

you work for the same company for a while that I’m currently at,

(00:26:33):

which is very corporate,

(00:26:34):

big,

(00:26:35):

you know,

(00:26:35):

behemoth,

(00:26:36):

working for the man,

(00:26:38):

whatever.

(00:26:39):

And then you go to a Silicon Valley startup

(00:26:41):

This lady wrote a book about Uncanny Valley, a memoir by Anna.

(00:26:45):

Uncanny Valley, yeah.

(00:26:46):

Yeah.

(00:26:47):

I remember I read this book and I told you about it and you’re like, that book is terrible.

(00:26:51):

Like you hated it.

(00:26:52):

I didn’t hate it.

(00:26:53):

I didn’t finish it.

(00:26:54):

I did because after I got through the part about the company that I worked at,

(00:26:58):

I was like,

(00:26:59):

this is not compelling anymore.

(00:27:00):

Her writing’s not that good.

(00:27:02):

It’s been on the order of years that I was meant to have written a better version.

(00:27:07):

Yeah.

(00:27:08):

Yeah.

(00:27:09):

I don’t doubt you could have written a better version of that book.

(00:27:12):

Yeah, we discussed at length that I could easily have cranked out a better version.

(00:27:17):

And then you went and actually wrote a book.

(00:27:18):

So now I really have to do it.

(00:27:21):

Yeah, no, you definitely have to do that.

(00:27:22):

This is a New York Times bestseller book.

(00:27:23):

I know.

(00:27:25):

You really missed the train on that.

(00:27:27):

So I was compelled by that book because I thought like there was a from in my

(00:27:31):

perception there’s like this romantic note like I think now we all agree that

(00:27:35):

Silicon Valley is awful.

(00:27:36):

Like I think most of us like that’s not a hot take anymore.

(00:27:39):

Like there’s a lot of downside right like nobody actually likes Mark Zuckerberg anymore.

(00:27:44):

Maybe we used to but I don’t think anybody actually likes I used to be a fan.

(00:27:47):

I’ll probably be canceled when this gas takes off.

(00:27:51):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:27:51):

Just wait.

(00:27:52):

As soon as I hit send, your career’s over.

(00:27:56):

Send to the podcast world.

(00:27:58):

Yeah.

(00:27:59):

But when I read that book, I think I was still very much my romantic Silicon Valley period.

(00:28:04):

And then that was the first thing I read by a quote unquote insider.

(00:28:07):

It was like, no, actually, this is also terrible.

(00:28:10):

Like just everything kind of sucks.

(00:28:12):

The difference is if you go to a giant company,

(00:28:14):

you’re working for people that have had jobs before versus Silicon Valley.

(00:28:18):

Yeah.

(00:28:19):

There are no parents.

(00:28:20):

Yeah.

(00:28:20):

I have no idea what they’re doing.

(00:28:22):

Yeah.

(00:28:22):

I think some of that has changed just because,

(00:28:24):

like,

(00:28:25):

I don’t know if there,

(00:28:26):

I would say,

(00:28:27):

like,

(00:28:27):

I feel now,

(00:28:28):

like,

(00:28:29):

so when I was working at that first startup,

(00:28:31):

I feel like everyone was kind of my age.

(00:28:35):

And so now we’ve all become, like, 30-something.

(00:28:38):

So I don’t know.

(00:28:39):

Like,

(00:28:39):

I feel like we’re all kind of,

(00:28:40):

like,

(00:28:40):

still,

(00:28:40):

it’s,

(00:28:40):

like,

(00:28:40):

the same pledge class of,

(00:28:42):

like,

(00:28:43):

people getting older.

(00:28:44):

It also feels like a very Silicon Valley thing to say at the same time.

(00:28:48):

Did you have an employee number?

(00:28:49):

Like employee number or something, something?

(00:28:52):

That’s a very Silicon Valley thing.

(00:28:53):

I used to.

(00:28:55):

Not here, I don’t.

(00:28:56):

Because we have, I think we have really close to a thousand people.

(00:28:58):

And the company I’ve been at now has been around for like 10 or 12 years.

(00:29:01):

So it’s not as important.

(00:29:03):

And they IPO’d already, so it doesn’t matter.

(00:29:05):

But you were, at one point you had a number when you were in San Francisco.

(00:29:08):

Like that’s how cool you were.

(00:29:10):

Well, one time I was at a startup where I was like truly like number like 43 or something.

(00:29:15):

Yeah, it was hella toxic.

(00:29:18):

It was terrible.

(00:29:18):

But is that when you like, all right, so you’re at San Francisco for a while.

(00:29:25):

You had like three or four different stars, right?

(00:29:27):

Or just multiple.

(00:29:27):

I don’t know the exact number.

(00:29:28):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(00:29:31):

Is that when you decided to go to like do this change your life around to live with

(00:29:34):

the amongst the people instead of the tech bros in Austin?

(00:29:39):

Yeah.

(00:29:39):

Well, I mean, I still like nine to five.

(00:29:41):

I’m like among my tech bros.

(00:29:43):

I haven’t quit the tech bros.

(00:29:45):

Okay, so you’re still a tech bro.

(00:29:46):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:29:48):

But is that like what am I five to nine?

(00:29:49):

Did you move from San Francisco to Texas to do this?

(00:29:52):

No, no.

(00:29:52):

I uncovered that like completely.

(00:29:54):

So I left SF in 2020, moved to Austin.

(00:29:58):

And that was in July when I moved.

(00:30:02):

And then in December of that year, like I said, so Alamo Drafthouse has that big

(00:30:08):

Amphitheater and they were like they had pivoted like everyone had pivoted from

(00:30:11):

like their normal course of action to something else so instead of doing like their

(00:30:14):

Friday night movies in this big amphitheater they had made it so that we were doing

(00:30:19):

drive-in movies and it was Christmas time and my friends and I were just like

(00:30:24):

So desperate for anything to do in 2020 because everything had been shut down and changed.

(00:30:28):

And so we were like,

(00:30:29):

we just booked these random tickets to go see Home Alone at this like drive in.

(00:30:33):

And it turned out the drive in was actually at the village.

(00:30:36):

And so I met like a bunch of people who became my neighbors.

(00:30:40):

But that’s when I got plugged.

(00:30:41):

So I found out about it because they play like a big trailer before they play the movie.

(00:30:44):

That’s like, this is our village.

(00:30:45):

And this is why we’re so interesting and unique and are making such a big impact.

(00:30:49):

And then and you also go on a tour just to see like

(00:30:53):

The neighborhood and then yeah then we watched a movie and it’s awesome and then

(00:30:57):

yeah and then I found out a bunch of people from my church actually like are super

(00:31:01):

plugged in out there so I yeah so I got plugged in too so it was just like all

(00:31:06):

providential so you you went from San Francisco to Austin just like why why Austin

(00:31:13):

just because it’s the closest Midwest yeah basically you want to be back in the

(00:31:19):

Midwest but you want to still be a cool liberal

(00:31:22):

They just don’t want to be cool.

(00:31:23):

Tech bro.

(00:31:24):

Yeah.

(00:31:25):

That was literally it.

(00:31:26):

That was the answer.

(00:31:27):

I nailed it.

(00:31:30):

Really what happened was my best friend in San Francisco she was like she hit a

(00:31:36):

wall one day with COVID she was like I’m done like I’m out of here and she’s from

(00:31:39):

Texas so she was like I’m buying a house because at the time she was working for a

(00:31:42):

company that had an office in Austin so she was like they’ll let me move I’m buying

(00:31:46):

a house I’m getting out I’m going back to Texas and I was like I like grabbed a

(00:31:49):

duffel bag and I was like take me with you for the love of God so again also very

(00:31:55):

providential I like just like kind of followed her like a sad puppy

(00:31:59):

Out of California.

(00:32:01):

You just were looking for any reason to get out of California.

(00:32:03):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(00:32:05):

Okay.

(00:32:06):

COVID was so tough in the Bay.

(00:32:08):

Well,

(00:32:09):

I remember that because I was supposed to,

(00:32:10):

I was,

(00:32:10):

I canceled my anniversary trip to Napa Valley to hang out,

(00:32:14):

in part to hang out with you.

(00:32:16):

Yeah.

(00:32:16):

March 2021.

(00:32:17):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:32:20):

Because I was supposed to go hang out and then it was just like this steady stream

(00:32:22):

of cancellation emails.

(00:32:23):

Like your Alcatraz tour is canceled.

(00:32:25):

Your flight is canceled.

(00:32:27):

Everything’s canceled.

(00:32:28):

You’re sending me an email being like,

(00:32:29):

I’m not going to tell you not to come,

(00:32:31):

but you probably shouldn’t.

(00:32:33):

But like, don’t.

(00:32:34):

Don’t?

(00:32:34):

I don’t really want you in my house.

(00:32:37):

With all your Nebraska germs.

(00:32:41):

Yeah.

(00:32:42):

Was it?

(00:32:43):

So, all right.

(00:32:43):

So COVID, that was like the COVID though.

(00:32:46):

If it wasn’t for COVID, do you think you’d still be out there?

(00:32:48):

Or is it just like- I don’t know.

(00:32:50):

It’s impossible to say.

(00:32:51):

Yeah.

(00:32:53):

I’m not sure.

(00:32:53):

I mean, the company I work for now has HQ there, so it wouldn’t be crazy.

(00:32:58):

I mean,

(00:33:01):

other than the,

(00:33:02):

like,

(00:33:03):

obviously the missional homeless people that aren’t actually homeless because I

(00:33:08):

have ill-informed questions people.

(00:33:10):

Other than that, I feel like your corporate life, I mean, is it that much different?

(00:33:15):

Like Austin versus San Francisco?

(00:33:16):

Because I just look at Austin, I think, oh, that’s just San Francisco with cowboy boots.

(00:33:21):

No, I think that’s incorrect.

(00:33:24):

But I mean, I work from home full time, so I don’t even go into an office, which is pretty nice.

(00:33:34):

But I do miss the luxury of an SF office.

(00:33:39):

Like

(00:33:40):

What like Jamba Juice smoothies and like breakfast in the office like my per diem

(00:33:46):

now is like $30 less per day when I’m in SF because I’m like expected to eat

(00:33:52):

breakfast and lunch in the office at least because it’s always there.

(00:33:55):

There’s plenty of coffee.

(00:33:56):

There’s nitro on tap.

(00:33:58):

There’s cold brew.

(00:33:59):

There’s there’s like beers and stuff.

(00:34:02):

Yeah, whatever, whatever.

(00:34:03):

There’s snacks out all the time.

(00:34:05):

And that’s like par for the course anywhere in San Francisco.

(00:34:08):

Yeah, I would say my office is just like another one of the very nice offices.

(00:34:11):

Yeah, not one of the exceptional ones.

(00:34:14):

But isn’t it like you get all that stuff like in lieu of like a 401k?

(00:34:18):

You’re like you could have all this.

(00:34:19):

No, I have a 401k.

(00:34:21):

Okay.

(00:34:21):

All right.

(00:34:24):

I don’t know.

(00:34:25):

Just like peanut M&Ms instead of a 401k.

(00:34:28):

I don’t know.

(00:34:28):

You might.

(00:34:32):

So what all right so what is your what is your job now you’re making apps for the

(00:34:35):

PGA Tour like what do you do.

(00:34:37):

And now I am a technical success manager at a startup called Amplitude.

(00:34:43):

You’re customer obsessed.

(00:34:45):

According to LinkedIn you’re customer obsessed.

(00:34:47):

I am customer obsessed.

(00:34:50):

Customer obsessed.

(00:34:54):

Yeah,

(00:34:54):

so I work with a number of customers to help their like product and marketing

(00:35:00):

experiences,

(00:35:02):

just like their digital,

(00:35:03):

their overall like digital footprints.

(00:35:06):

Okay, you said a lot of buzzwords.

(00:35:07):

I don’t know what any of that means.

(00:35:09):

What is the overall digital footprints and customer success?

(00:35:12):

What does it actually do?

(00:35:14):

What are the actual machinations of my job?

(00:35:16):

I don’t have to tell you.

(00:35:18):

What are yours?

(00:35:18):

What do you even do?

(00:35:19):

You talk about digital footprints and customer success.

(00:35:22):

What do you do?

(00:35:22):

You blow air across building?

(00:35:24):

None of it means anything.

(00:35:27):

At least when we both used to work at an HVAC, calm down, it’s my podcast.

(00:35:31):

At least when we used to work at an HVAC company,

(00:35:33):

we’d be like,

(00:35:34):

we make cold air,

(00:35:35):

and now it’s like we’ve created a digital footprint.

(00:35:37):

I didn’t make it.

(00:35:39):

You could feel cold air, like I don’t even know what a digital footprint even is.

(00:35:44):

So when you open an app, like for anyone, really...

(00:35:48):

You open the app and you’re like doing some stuff and I can pull all of that data.

(00:35:52):

Like I have a product.

(00:35:53):

Amplitude is the product that like shows like that customer journey and customer behavior.

(00:35:57):

So then we can like optimize like speed to checkout or we can optimize just like your general.

(00:36:02):

Like if it’s buggy,

(00:36:02):

we can optimize the experience or we can start to work out of product to like nudge

(00:36:07):

people into the into the app or the web store or whatever it is and just like make

(00:36:12):

it more fun and more relevant.

(00:36:13):

So like

(00:36:14):

When you’re searching,

(00:36:15):

you’re not seeing the same bright,

(00:36:17):

shiny,

(00:36:17):

fun,

(00:36:18):

optimistic things that I’m seeing.

(00:36:19):

You’re seeing crotchety old dad s**t.

(00:36:22):

That’s what I’m seeing.

(00:36:24):

That’s what I like.

(00:36:25):

Exactly.

(00:36:26):

Your algorithm is tied into who you are.

(00:36:30):

So you’re part of the problem is what I’m hearing.

(00:36:32):

You’re one of the people that’s making it so we can’t ever get off of our phones.

(00:36:35):

You want to make sure that we’re all sucked into the ready player one.

(00:36:40):

One of the things I really enjoy is helping customers see that good churn is a solution.

(00:36:48):

You want someone to do what they need to do and then maybe not come back for a long

(00:36:52):

time because they feel satisfied and got it done.

(00:36:55):

And one of the symptoms of a bad product or bad marketing experience is someone

(00:37:00):

dragging through or slogging through or having to repeat visits in some instances.

(00:37:06):

Yeah.

(00:37:07):

So you like want me to get in,

(00:37:09):

give you my credit card information right away and then move on to something else.

(00:37:12):

That way I can come up with some new thing to spend my money on later than just do

(00:37:16):

that really effectively.

(00:37:18):

If you want, I don’t know, like not all the apps are like some apps are for calendars.

(00:37:22):

You’re not buying anything on the calendar app.

(00:37:25):

Okay.

(00:37:27):

But you want to make sure that I’m staring my calendar app all day.

(00:37:30):

No, that’s what I mean.

(00:37:31):

You shouldn’t be.

(00:37:31):

It should be really smooth.

(00:37:33):

It should be integrated.

(00:37:34):

It should be seamless.

(00:37:35):

And you should be like, all done.

(00:37:36):

I love it.

(00:37:38):

Do you love your calendar app?

(00:37:40):

I do love my calendar app.

(00:37:42):

That was actually really like Calendly just,

(00:37:45):

not Calendly,

(00:37:46):

Clockwise just sold out to Salesforce.

(00:37:48):

And I was devastated.

(00:37:51):

Now I just have to rely on Google Calendar.

(00:37:54):

They’re coming up to speed nicely, but it’s going to be a while.

(00:37:58):

Oh, wow.

(00:37:59):

I’m sorry for your loss.

(00:38:01):

I don’t even know what calendar app I use.

(00:38:03):

I have this calendar.

(00:38:05):

This is awesome.

(00:38:06):

It’s like manual.

(00:38:08):

It’s hard to...

(00:38:09):

This is not going to translate well to the podcast.

(00:38:11):

What is that?

(00:38:12):

It’s something from this hipster store where I literally have this piece of paper

(00:38:15):

that I flip over to tell me what day it is.

(00:38:17):

That’s fine.

(00:38:18):

I like that.

(00:38:19):

That’s very tactile.

(00:38:21):

Oh, yeah.

(00:38:21):

I have all that tactile experience.

(00:38:23):

Yeah.

(00:38:24):

That’s why I think that you’re one of the people ruining my life.

(00:38:28):

With all your optimization and digital footprints.

(00:38:33):

Yeah, sure.

(00:38:37):

Who else is ruining your life?

(00:38:38):

Who else is ruining your life?

(00:38:39):

Oh, it’s a long list.

(00:38:40):

That’s why I say this podcast.

(00:38:41):

I just want to confront all these people.

(00:38:45):

Are you running any marathons or doing stand-up comedy right now?

(00:38:49):

I have a competition in August.

(00:38:53):

A marathon or a stand-up comedy competition?

(00:38:55):

A stand-up.

(00:38:56):

I need a type 5.

(00:38:57):

Maybe type four.

(00:38:58):

I’m like, yeah, I need to get on it.

(00:39:01):

I need to be doing some open mics.

(00:39:04):

Are you still actively trying to get good at stand up?

(00:39:08):

No,

(00:39:08):

I mean,

(00:39:09):

I mean,

(00:39:09):

like always kind of,

(00:39:10):

but like not actively,

(00:39:11):

like not in my actual spare time.

(00:39:14):

You’re not the guy that’s sorry, not the guy.

(00:39:17):

You’re not a guy.

(00:39:18):

You’re not the person that’s trying to actively.

(00:39:21):

Most people I would like not correct myself after saying that.

(00:39:23):

But with you, I know it’s important to you.

(00:39:26):

It’s important to everyone.

(00:39:28):

It’s less important to some people.

(00:39:31):

You’re on the,

(00:39:33):

you know,

(00:39:34):

as far as the customer digital footprint experience of using the word guy

(00:39:38):

incorrectly,

(00:39:39):

I got to correct that real quick.

(00:39:41):

Otherwise, you’ll be canceled.

(00:39:44):

Yeah, it’ll cancel and just like derail you.

(00:39:46):

Sorry.

(00:39:47):

Good luck moving.

(00:39:48):

My question was, so you’re not the person that’s like trying to do like

(00:39:54):

I don’t know if you’ve seen the,

(00:39:55):

have you seen the,

(00:39:55):

he’s a terrible pocket,

(00:39:57):

what’s the guy,

(00:39:58):

Pete Holmes show,

(00:39:59):

stand-up,

(00:40:00):

the stand-up show where he’s just like.

(00:40:02):

Crashing.

(00:40:03):

Yeah, crashing.

(00:40:05):

Where like every single night he’s going trying to get like open mic nights and

(00:40:07):

handing out flyers because this is like his life’s passion and he wants to get

(00:40:10):

really,

(00:40:10):

really awesome at it.

(00:40:11):

I mean, it like is, I would love to be good at it.

(00:40:14):

It’s so much fun,

(00:40:15):

but I like,

(00:40:17):

I’m working,

(00:40:17):

I have like a real job,

(00:40:19):

unfortunately,

(00:40:19):

at this moment,

(00:40:20):

so.

(00:40:21):

Would you ever quit your real job to do the fun thing?

(00:40:24):

Yeah, I would.

(00:40:25):

I totally would.

(00:40:28):

I don’t know when the benchmark...

(00:40:30):

I don’t know what I’d have to...

(00:40:31):

I’d have to be feeling pretty confident, but I totally would.

(00:40:35):

Yeah.

(00:40:36):

Yeah.

(00:40:39):

I can relate to that.

(00:40:39):

I’m just looking for a reason to quit my job every single day.

(00:40:44):

I’m not looking for a reason to quit, but

(00:40:46):

But like in a hypothetical world where I was just like,

(00:40:49):

I had plenty of time to go to open mics every night at like,

(00:40:52):

and do a 2am spot,

(00:40:53):

even just like,

(00:40:54):

it’s not even about time.

(00:40:55):

It’s just about like, that makes me feel so tired.

(00:40:58):

Yeah.

(00:41:00):

I feel like standup is definitely a young person’s game.

(00:41:03):

I wouldn’t say a young man’s game, but I know that I know better than to say that.

(00:41:07):

A young person’s game.

(00:41:09):

Good for you.

(00:41:09):

Well,

(00:41:09):

and like,

(00:41:10):

I actually go to it,

(00:41:11):

like there used to be a standup club like five minutes from my house.

(00:41:13):

And so I go to that

(00:41:15):

I don’t know whenever somebody was good there but it’s like now it’s I would see

(00:41:19):

stand-ups that I like I knew who they were from like weird 90s movies and it just

(00:41:23):

looks rough like yeah they’re still funny but it’s like these 60 year old guys who

(00:41:28):

are like huge in 93 and it’s just like you’re doing a set that starts at 9 30 p.m

(00:41:33):

it’s your third set of the day and you’re in Omaha like yeah the only reason why

(00:41:38):

people come to

(00:41:39):

We have an excellent stand-up comedy club in Omaha.

(00:41:43):

Like one that like literally they always talk about how awesome it is.

(00:41:46):

But it’s because they,

(00:41:48):

it’s one of those where people go to work on new material before doing it like,

(00:41:51):

you know,

(00:41:52):

selling out an arena or something.

(00:41:53):

So like Nate Bargatze in his latest special did like three nights at our tiny

(00:41:57):

little 40-man stand-up comedy club.

(00:42:00):

So we could test out the material for now is, what is it?

(00:42:02):

His big dumb eyes tour.

(00:42:04):

So like we get like really good acts, but it’s definitely one of those things where I see these

(00:42:08):

I see these people and I’m like, I can’t stay up this late past nine on a given night.

(00:42:14):

I’m 36.

(00:42:15):

I feel old, but these guys, when they were 36, they were still in SNL.

(00:42:20):

It’s crazy.

(00:42:21):

Yeah, crazy how old you are.

(00:42:23):

Yeah, that was the point of that.

(00:42:24):

Did you ever end up getting that K-Money tattoo that you were going to do that your

(00:42:28):

friends talked about?

(00:42:29):

No, I did not.

(00:42:29):

I did not.

(00:42:32):

What was it going to be?

(00:42:34):

I don’t even remember anymore.

(00:42:35):

Yeah, I’m really glad I didn’t.

(00:42:37):

I feel like getting a tattoo of your own nickname is challenging.

(00:42:42):

In what way?

(00:42:44):

What’s the challenging part of it?

(00:42:46):

Just that you have to live with that for your whole life.

(00:42:49):

You have to live with knowing you were that much of a douche that you got your own

(00:42:52):

name tatted on you.

(00:42:53):

I may have done that.

(00:42:58):

You have a tattoo that says Christopher?

(00:43:00):

No, so I got a tattoo of my name in Greek.

(00:43:04):

Like, is the word in Greek?

(00:43:06):

Just like in case you ever get lost in, like, Mykonos?

(00:43:09):

Yeah, I can’t speak Greek.

(00:43:10):

It can identify your body.

(00:43:11):

Yeah, I don’t even speak Greek, so it can say anything, really.

(00:43:14):

Yeah, yeah, it can say that’s hot.

(00:43:17):

Yeah, it’s like one of those, you know, it’s like... Why did you do that?

(00:43:22):

Walk me through that.

(00:43:25):

Well, I think it was one of those things where, like,

(00:43:29):

Just the look of like Greek words was like really cool with like within the little

(00:43:33):

group of circle of people that I was in for a while.

(00:43:35):

Like that was like the Christian tattoo.

(00:43:37):

And I’m talking about like when I say my group of people,

(00:43:40):

this is where like the Protestant and the Catholic like path is probably very

(00:43:44):

divergent.

(00:43:45):

Like cool Christian tattoos when I was a kid or like an adolescent,

(00:43:50):

we’re all like you get your own name in Greek.

(00:43:53):

Well, just anything in Greek, anything in Hebrew.

(00:43:55):

Like, you could have gotten, like, John 3.16, but in Greek, and you chose to get your own name.

(00:44:00):

Yeah, I could have.

(00:44:00):

Well, I mean, it’s all the same to me.

(00:44:03):

Cool, cool, cool.

(00:44:04):

Yeah.

(00:44:05):

Yeah, uh-huh.

(00:44:07):

Yeah, got it.

(00:44:07):

So, yeah, so now I can live with that for the rest of my life.

(00:44:10):

Well,

(00:44:10):

I actually have,

(00:44:11):

like,

(00:44:11):

this whole bigger,

(00:44:12):

like,

(00:44:12):

metaphor of,

(00:44:13):

like,

(00:44:13):

so my name is Christopher.

(00:44:15):

Which is like Greek for his two Greek words,

(00:44:17):

Christus and Pharos,

(00:44:19):

which means bearer or bringer of Christ,

(00:44:21):

depending on which Google definition you pick.

(00:44:24):

And it’s like I had this whole like thought about like,

(00:44:28):

you know,

(00:44:28):

a shield bearer and a lion and all this stuff.

(00:44:32):

And I’m like, well, none of it like it’s like would make any sense without like my name.

(00:44:36):

So I just started with the name and then I went, I don’t need all the rest of that stuff.

(00:44:40):

And now I’ll probably get covered up by something else at some point.

(00:44:42):

Hmm.

(00:44:43):

Hmm.

(00:44:43):

Hmm.

(00:44:45):

When did you get that tattoo?

(00:44:47):

Not that long ago.

(00:44:48):

I think like five years ago.

(00:44:49):

So you were 31.

(00:44:51):

This is like actually not.

(00:44:52):

Yeah, I was in my 30s.

(00:44:53):

Yeah.

(00:44:53):

Uh-huh.

(00:44:54):

Okay.

(00:44:54):

Well,

(00:44:54):

because you presented it like,

(00:44:56):

oh,

(00:44:56):

when I was a kid,

(00:44:57):

you know,

(00:44:58):

when I was like 18,

(00:44:59):

like going.

(00:45:00):

Well, this is like my second year being a dad.

(00:45:01):

I mean, I’m a whole different person now.

(00:45:05):

You also have this ability where like I could tell that exact same story to

(00:45:08):

somebody and not feel really judged and terrible about my choices.

(00:45:11):

But when I talk to you,

(00:45:13):

It’s just I always start a story and go like,

(00:45:15):

oh man,

(00:45:16):

I didn’t think this was dumb until I saw your reaction.

(00:45:22):

And it makes me wonder like, what are the truth is?

(00:45:24):

Like, am I really as terrible as I feel after I speak to you or not?

(00:45:28):

It’s hard to say.

(00:45:32):

No one knows.

(00:45:32):

You know what?

(00:45:32):

Before we...

(00:45:35):

Don’t talk about anything else.

(00:45:37):

I really do think we need to talk about how we got to know each other in our

(00:45:40):

reality game show environment that we were playing.

(00:45:42):

It was like living the real world.

(00:45:44):

Yeah.

(00:45:45):

So, okay.

(00:45:45):

So we were all uglier.

(00:45:46):

Yeah.

(00:45:47):

Do you want to describe what building efficiency sales training is or should I?

(00:45:51):

I think I want to hear your definition.

(00:45:54):

It’s called building efficiency sales training.

(00:45:56):

I don’t know if it still exists.

(00:45:57):

I’m sure there’s some version of it,

(00:45:58):

but it was specifically called building efficiency division anymore.

(00:46:01):

So they keep on changing what the D and the E stand for.

(00:46:04):

I still think that’s the best,

(00:46:06):

but I think they re-engineered what the acronym stands for every single

(00:46:10):

reorganization.

(00:46:11):

That makes sense.

(00:46:12):

I mean, that’s fine.

(00:46:13):

But yeah,

(00:46:14):

so they specifically used best so they can call this group of new grads the best

(00:46:19):

class that you’re recruited to this elite circle of Avengers.

(00:46:25):

It’s like meant to.

(00:46:28):

A new hire, corporate American new hires.

(00:46:30):

Corporate American new hires.

(00:46:31):

Everyone is like 22.

(00:46:34):

And you’re all,

(00:46:35):

yeah,

(00:46:35):

you’re all like plucked from your schools across the country and like assembled,

(00:46:39):

like I said,

(00:46:40):

into this all-star team.

(00:46:42):

And you come to fun and you’re like enamored with like this intercontinental travel

(00:46:47):

that you’re going to have.

(00:46:48):

And it turns out that’s just like Milwaukee and Oklahoma.

(00:46:51):

And Norman, Oklahoma.

(00:46:53):

And San Antonio, but not even the hardest thing.

(00:46:55):

Not even like, no, like where the factories are outside of San Antonio.

(00:46:59):

It’s the place where they can’t get any unions.

(00:47:01):

Like it’s literally...

(00:47:03):

They pick the area of San Antonio where union workers aren’t allowed to go.

(00:47:05):

It’s like forever outside of San Antonio.

(00:47:08):

So yeah.

(00:47:09):

And then sometimes if you’re lucky, you get to go to York, PA.

(00:47:12):

So yeah.

(00:47:13):

But it’s the first time.

(00:47:15):

I don’t know what was going on with our group,

(00:47:18):

but no one had any serious relationships coming out of college.

(00:47:22):

So everyone was single.

(00:47:23):

It was the first time we had an expense account.

(00:47:25):

We were all staying in a hotel.

(00:47:27):

So it was like suspended reality.

(00:47:31):

And we weren’t home with our regular friends for like two weeks at a time.

(00:47:34):

So we were like, had to like, like fuse into each other, like survive.

(00:47:40):

And then there was also a ranking system.

(00:47:43):

It was like, it was crazy.

(00:47:44):

It was crazy.

(00:47:47):

The closest thing I could think of is a reality game show.

(00:47:49):

And I felt that while I was in it too.

(00:47:51):

It felt to me like the real world.

(00:47:53):

Especially like the real world because there was no winning.

(00:47:56):

It was just, we were just on parade.

(00:47:58):

It was like, who’s like, is it anyway?

(00:48:00):

Because there was points though, but they didn’t matter.

(00:48:02):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:48:03):

But yeah, you couldn’t win.

(00:48:05):

You couldn’t win.

(00:48:06):

And it was like, okay, so yeah, just to, so every two weeks...

(00:48:11):

So we had about, what, 30 of us or so.

(00:48:13):

And I think most of us were from different cities.

(00:48:15):

There’s a few people that were, like, we had, like, Boston had, like, four people.

(00:48:18):

But most of us were from different cities.

(00:48:21):

And then we had one guy, Wassam, from Dubai, who was in our group for a little while.

(00:48:29):

And then he got transferred to a different group.

(00:48:31):

And they realized he doesn’t actually sell any of the things that we’re training him.

(00:48:34):

And the idea was that we would have a six-month training program,

(00:48:38):

but it was like two weeks on,

(00:48:39):

two weeks off.

(00:48:39):

So the first two weeks would be all these 20-somethings living in a hotel,

(00:48:44):

separate hotel rooms,

(00:48:45):

but in the same hotel for two weeks.

(00:48:47):

Then we’d go home, do a bunch of stupid homework, or maybe our real jobs.

(00:48:51):

Our real jobs.

(00:48:53):

I didn’t.

(00:48:53):

My boss was like, we’ll talk about your real job once your training’s over.

(00:48:57):

And then we just actually never really got to that part.

(00:48:59):

And I’m still there 12 years later, so I haven’t figured out what my job is.

(00:49:03):

So we go like two weeks in Milwaukee, and then we would go home to wherever home was.

(00:49:07):

And then we come back another two weeks in Milwaukee.

(00:49:09):

We did that for six straight weeks.

(00:49:11):

Was it that?

(00:49:12):

Six months.

(00:49:13):

Six months.

(00:49:14):

And it was at least,

(00:49:16):

I think it was eight weeks altogether living at a hotel room,

(00:49:20):

something like that.

(00:49:21):

I don’t know.

(00:49:21):

But yeah, six months long.

(00:49:22):

But it was my first experience.

(00:49:25):

You were in sororities.

(00:49:26):

And so I always felt like it was my college experience because I wasn’t in a fraternity.

(00:49:31):

I was in the engineering dorms for all the scholarship engineering nerds.

(00:49:35):

And so it was like, yeah, it was exactly what you would think.

(00:49:39):

It was all these people like I had the lowest ACT score on my floor.

(00:49:43):

Why were you guys even talking about your ACT scores?

(00:49:46):

I’m just saying,

(00:49:47):

as somebody who still had a good enough ACT score to get on a full ride engineering

(00:49:51):

scholarship,

(00:49:52):

I was the dumbest one.

(00:49:53):

So you can imagine what our social scene was like.

(00:49:57):

But then we go to,

(00:49:58):

you know,

(00:49:58):

so that was my five years of college because I don’t know if you knew this about

(00:50:01):

me,

(00:50:02):

but I have a master’s degree.

(00:50:03):

Yeah, I know, I know.

(00:50:03):

Five years of college.

(00:50:05):

And then we had this weird experience where,

(00:50:08):

like you said,

(00:50:08):

all of a sudden we have all unlimited funds and limited money because we can use

(00:50:12):

our work credit card to buy all of our food.

(00:50:14):

And it just turns into this weird free-for-all thing where we sit in an eight-hour

(00:50:18):

training session on air-cooled chiller.

(00:50:20):

Not even air-cooled chiller.

(00:50:23):

It was like the individual parts of air-cooled chiller.

(00:50:25):

It’s like, what is this tube?

(00:50:27):

Just like the concept.

(00:50:28):

Yeah.

(00:50:29):

They have these cool tubes.

(00:50:31):

Let’s talk about this very specific tube that’s inside it for eight hours.

(00:50:35):

And then we’d have weird homework on that.

(00:50:37):

And then we would get a ranking system 1 through 33 at the end of every week to

(00:50:40):

tell us how awesome it was.

(00:50:43):

And then the rest of the time was just hours.

(00:50:48):

And man, it was insane.

(00:50:51):

So the guy who was leading the course was a creep.

(00:50:54):

And no one could really articulate what was so creepy about him until a judge

(00:50:58):

finally did and sent him to jail.

(00:51:01):

He got sent to jail.

(00:51:04):

He didn’t get sent to jail.

(00:51:05):

I thought he did.

(00:51:05):

He got convicted.

(00:51:07):

I don’t know if there was jail time involved.

(00:51:11):

But yeah, there is a lawsuit out there for embezzling money.

(00:51:18):

I think he’s actually one of the few people that subscribes to this podcast.

(00:51:21):

I probably hope so.

(00:51:23):

Too much about it.

(00:51:24):

But it wasn’t.

(00:51:24):

Yeah, it wasn’t.

(00:51:26):

He was definitely a game show host type of personality, not a engineering professor.

(00:51:32):

Like a game show host for like, like, I don’t know what, what child in my bed or something.

(00:51:41):

I don’t know.

(00:51:41):

Yeah.

(00:51:42):

Love.

(00:51:42):

Well,

(00:51:51):

Where do you go from there?

(00:51:52):

I don’t know.

(00:51:53):

I don’t know where you go from there.

(00:51:54):

I mean, I don’t, I don’t, all the directions I can think of are directions I don’t want to go.

(00:51:58):

I remember we had a,

(00:52:01):

but like this,

(00:52:02):

it was such a weird,

(00:52:03):

like odd couple of like these 30 people because it was,

(00:52:07):

a lot of them was exactly what you’d expect.

(00:52:09):

Like super, like people that want to go into sales, right?

(00:52:13):

Like, yeah, but also like everyone was an engineer, I think.

(00:52:18):

Everyone was an engineer, so they’re all pretty smart.

(00:52:21):

Some have better social skills than others.

(00:52:23):

Some were very smart.

(00:52:24):

Some were very smart.

(00:52:27):

Some people had better social skills than others.

(00:52:29):

Chloe is a lawyer now.

(00:52:30):

There were some real smart folks in that class.

(00:52:33):

Chloe is one of the... She’s a lawyer for the ACLU.

(00:52:37):

She’s crushing.

(00:52:39):

Yeah.

(00:52:40):

And then but then there’s like then there’s the other parts of the guys that maybe

(00:52:43):

aren’t actually that smart,

(00:52:44):

but just huge douchebags.

(00:52:47):

And there’s definitely a lot of that going on.

(00:52:49):

And those are the people that like.

(00:52:51):

And also,

(00:52:51):

I want to say,

(00:52:52):

like,

(00:52:52):

we’re talking about it like we were given like hundreds of thousands of dollars.

(00:52:56):

We had like a per diem that was like maybe a few hundred.

(00:52:59):

But we were all just so young.

(00:53:00):

We were like, this is life changing.

(00:53:02):

Yes.

(00:53:03):

Yes.

(00:53:05):

We’re talking about it like it’s an NFL signing bonus, but it was really just like, oh my God.

(00:53:12):

We just had beer money.

(00:53:13):

That was all it was.

(00:53:16):

We had a hotel that was comped and we could eat food and then we had enough for beer after.

(00:53:21):

But it was still insane.

(00:53:23):

I remember one of our friends from Austin...

(00:53:26):

from the Austin branch he was the one he’s the only one in like a very serious

(00:53:30):

relationship I feel yeah he got married during that time yeah he was engaged when

(00:53:33):

he started it and then so he got married but I remember his goal every single trip

(00:53:37):

was to say he wanted to spend zero of his own dollars yes yes which like fits his

(00:53:41):

personality to be honest and he did like he never bought it like I’ve always been

(00:53:46):

like a souvenir shopper not him not that there’s like a lot of souvenirs in Norman,

(00:53:49):

Oklahoma that I wanted but

(00:53:51):

And it was just like, he literally would just try to limit all of his spending to just meals.

(00:53:56):

Exactly.

(00:53:57):

And that was it.

(00:53:57):

And just getting covered, yes.

(00:53:59):

Totally.

(00:54:00):

And he probably still had a great time.

(00:54:02):

I think at as good of a time as anyone else did.

(00:54:04):

Yeah, totally.

(00:54:08):

My,

(00:54:09):

well,

(00:54:10):

when you,

(00:54:11):

it’s funny,

(00:54:12):

because like,

(00:54:12):

you still like,

(00:54:13):

I still hear stories about things that happened,

(00:54:15):

like during that time that I didn’t know,

(00:54:17):

like closed door kind of stuff afterwards,

(00:54:19):

like,

(00:54:20):

Like you kind of knew certain like like this is the real world stuff right like the

(00:54:25):

new certain people like hooked up and you heard certain stories and like this guy

(00:54:29):

showed up late to class the next day but when he came back he had a coffee in hand

(00:54:34):

for one of the girls that sat by him who he never sat by before like there’s a lot

(00:54:40):

of that kind of stuff but like I remember I remember our mutual friend was telling

(00:54:45):

me something about like

(00:54:47):

It was his birthday and one of the people went up to him from our group and was

(00:54:51):

like,

(00:54:51):

hey,

(00:54:53):

what do you want for your birthday?

(00:54:53):

He goes, I don’t know, maybe a b*****b?

(00:54:55):

And she’s like, oh, okay.

(00:54:56):

It’s up by my roommate.

(00:54:57):

Stories like that, you hear that?

(00:54:59):

Gross.

(00:55:01):

Gross.

(00:55:02):

Yeah.

(00:55:06):

Gross.

(00:55:08):

Yeah, it was a weird time.

(00:55:09):

That’s what happens.

(00:55:09):

You put too many young 20-something people in a hotel room.

(00:55:14):

Yeah, it was

(00:55:15):

Yeah, there was no adult supervision.

(00:55:17):

The only adult there was our game show host friend who probably went to jail.

(00:55:22):

The other thing that I remember from that,

(00:55:23):

I’m just going through my notes,

(00:55:24):

is you started a fantasy football league without me during that time.

(00:55:28):

Without you?

(00:55:30):

Do you seriously not remember that?

(00:55:31):

I made a sneak out of that for years.

(00:55:33):

Here it is only 13 years later and it’s still like, I’m still bringing it up.

(00:55:38):

Yeah, no, clearly it’s affected you more than me.

(00:55:40):

I...

(00:55:45):

I found out about it after the fact and and then I made sure I brought it up every

(00:55:54):

single trip from then on out yeah no I don’t remember that at all but I’m very I

(00:55:59):

apologize I was so young yeah you you’ve learned a lot about how to treat people

(00:56:04):

since then exactly I did I also saw on your LinkedIn page that you still have that

(00:56:10):

you are bragging about being ranked number three do I have that on there

(00:56:14):

It’s still out there.

(00:56:15):

You’re ranked number three.

(00:56:16):

Remember who number two was?

(00:56:18):

You were number two.

(00:56:19):

Yours truly.

(00:56:20):

And number one doesn’t count.

(00:56:23):

He has a very big heart.

(00:56:26):

Probably also in jail.

(00:56:30):

Almost definitely is in jail.

(00:56:32):

Wow, that’s only hope for all of our sakes.

(00:56:36):

Okay, Kylie, what else?

(00:56:38):

Anything else we should talk about?

(00:56:39):

Who’s your favorite sports team?

(00:56:41):

This is another fascinating thing about it.

(00:56:42):

I can never figure out what teams you root for.

(00:56:44):

Yeah, right now I’m really into Wemby and the Spurs, of course.

(00:56:48):

I think Spurs are going to take it in five.

(00:56:51):

Take what?

(00:56:51):

The championship?

(00:56:52):

The finals.

(00:56:53):

The finals.

(00:56:53):

Okay.

(00:56:54):

Okay.

(00:56:54):

When being the Spurs?

(00:56:55):

Have you been, was this a new, like the NBA, is that a new?

(00:56:59):

Yeah.

(00:57:00):

Just because Central Texas is going so crazy for the Spurs and the Spurs are just

(00:57:03):

so unproblematic and good.

(00:57:05):

And like the people of San Antonio and Central Texas are like just my favorites.

(00:57:10):

So yeah, I’m all in.

(00:57:11):

I’m all in right now.

(00:57:14):

When the season comes back around, I’ll be like fully on board for the Chiefs again.

(00:57:18):

I mean, I’m never not on board for the Chiefs.

(00:57:20):

Because your Chiefs, apparently Spurs now, that’s a new app.

(00:57:24):

Detroit Tigers, right?

(00:57:25):

Aren’t you a Tigers baseball fan?

(00:57:27):

Yeah, but I’m also a big Royals fan.

(00:57:29):

But they’re in different leagues, so that’s okay.

(00:57:31):

Okay.

(00:57:32):

Yeah.

(00:57:33):

And then obviously KU.

(00:57:35):

Kansas always.

(00:57:36):

Are they doing that stuff currently?

(00:57:39):

Yeah, they’re in the playoffs for baseball.

(00:57:42):

They could be coming to Omaha.

(00:57:43):

Yeah.

(00:57:45):

Nebraska just lost last night so I was at a bar and watched But doesn’t everyone

(00:57:50):

have to come through Omaha that’s like the only thing you guys have is the College

(00:57:53):

World Series Yeah that’s no we have Warren Buffett Oh you have a walking bridge too

(00:57:58):

and a zoo Yeah yeah and a zoo and a bridge But no Warren Buffett for the moment

(00:58:04):

being I mean he’s already stepped down so now he’s really just a mascot he’s not

(00:58:09):

even running Berkshire Hathaway anymore but you know

(00:58:12):

You know He’s still ours He still shows up on all the Forbes lists Yeah But like

(00:58:18):

you went to Kansas when it was the historically worst football team ever in the

(00:58:22):

history of ever,

(00:58:23):

right?

(00:58:25):

Um I feel like yes I think you were at KU when they were like 0-12 for like 3 years

(00:58:32):

in a row or something crazy Yeah Because it was after Mangino left I don’t think we

(00:58:36):

lost right away when Mangino left Um

(00:58:43):

But then, yeah, we were certainly not on an uphill trajectory.

(00:58:47):

Were people still, like, showing up?

(00:58:48):

Did you go to KU football games or just all basketball all the time?

(00:58:51):

No, we went to football games.

(00:58:54):

Were they, like, what was the vibe?

(00:58:56):

Vibes were high.

(00:58:57):

Vibes are always high.

(00:58:59):

Okay, so you still enjoyed it.

(00:59:00):

It was just like, but you just, were you there for the football?

(00:59:02):

Do people actually, like, were they hopeful, optimistic?

(00:59:05):

Yeah, of course.

(00:59:07):

Always.

(00:59:07):

That’s what I’m saying.

(00:59:08):

Vibes are high, man.

(00:59:10):

Vibes are big.

(00:59:12):

You could be a Husker fan with that kind of attitude.

(00:59:16):

Yeah, but I have too much self-respect.

(00:59:20):

Hey, water’s warm.

(00:59:21):

You can join whenever you want.

(00:59:24):

Yeah.

(00:59:26):

Anything else, Kylie?

(00:59:28):

I don’t think so.

(00:59:28):

Any other questions about what makes me so interesting?

(00:59:31):

I don’t know.

(00:59:32):

I don’t even know if we covered it.

(00:59:34):

I don’t know if we’ve convinced my three viewers yet that you’re worth this time

(00:59:38):

while they’re on the treadmill.

(00:59:41):

But one thing I’ve learned about just listening to podcasts is that really people

(00:59:46):

have,

(00:59:48):

they have very low expectations out of a lot of their podcasts.

(00:59:50):

I listened to my interview, who was it?

(00:59:55):

Kristen Wiig.

(00:59:58):

It was the worst interview I think I’ve ever heard in my life.

(01:00:00):

This is easily a better interview than that.

(01:00:02):

Kristen Wiig.

(01:00:03):

Oh, it’s awful.

(01:00:04):

You should listen to it.

(01:00:06):

It’s awful.

(01:00:06):

It’s awful.

(01:00:07):

it’s a total waste of time you should you should interesting that’s like actually

(01:00:11):

kind of fascinating it is like that was yeah because those two people are like in

(01:00:17):

showbiz let’s say their whole thing like I love Conan and I think that he’s the

(01:00:21):

kind of guy that like really wants his guests to come across well you know yeah you

(01:00:26):

can just see him like just wheels turning trying to help her and he would say stuff

(01:00:31):

like uh like Kristen Wiig would give responses like

(01:00:35):

Yeah, some people just think I’m, you know, not very interesting.

(01:00:38):

And you’d be like, oh, really?

(01:00:41):

It’s like going to be like, what?

(01:00:42):

Yeah, no.

(01:00:43):

I’ve actually heard interviews of him talking about how practiced he or how he like

(01:00:48):

made it a skill for himself to be a good host and interviewer.

(01:00:52):

So he like, yeah, he takes it very seriously.

(01:00:55):

And especially because he kind of had to like on his show,

(01:00:58):

especially early on,

(01:00:59):

he was interviewing like C and D list celebrities or like kids who were like,

(01:01:04):

had like

(01:01:05):

By C.S.

(01:01:05):

Beaty

(01:01:22):

He always has this fake,

(01:01:23):

I don’t think it’s most of the time fake,

(01:01:25):

I think summertime it has to be,

(01:01:26):

but it’s like,

(01:01:26):

oh yeah,

(01:01:27):

ketchup is great,

(01:01:28):

yeah.

(01:01:31):

You can see with Kristen Wiig that one,

(01:01:32):

which to your point,

(01:01:34):

I thought it would be great just knowing that she’s funny.

(01:01:37):

And it was

(01:01:40):

My heart just broke for this man because I’ve never been in that exact situation.

(01:01:44):

I’m really going through it, Conan.

(01:01:45):

I’ve been in a lot of terrible sales calls where you could tell it’s just not working.

(01:01:50):

But man, it was rough.

(01:01:51):

Maybe you should rethink what you’re doing.

(01:01:53):

Yeah.

(01:01:55):

But that being said, I’ll take Kristen Wiig on my podcast anytime.

(01:01:58):

Yeah.

(01:01:58):

Good idea.

(01:01:59):

I bet she’s open to it.

(01:02:01):

Now that she knows that you hate her.

(01:02:05):

I think she’s an awful podcast interviewer.

(01:02:08):

If she wasn’t eager before, she’s eager now.

(01:02:13):

That’s the trick.

(01:02:14):

That’s the secret sauce.

(01:02:16):

Alright, Kylie.

(01:02:18):

You’ll get there.

(01:02:19):

Thank you.

(01:02:22):

My pleasure.

(01:02:23):

There’s no close.

(01:02:24):

I don’t know how we’re supposed to do this.

(01:02:27):

The last podcast we closed was...

(01:02:30):

My wife said a text saying, it’s raining outside and Ben’s trunk is open.

(01:02:34):

Ben was my guest.

(01:02:35):

So we said, we better get outside and close the trunk.

(01:02:38):

Time to close up shop.

(01:02:39):

Yeah.

(01:02:40):

Yeah.

(01:02:40):

Okay.

(01:02:41):

Well, it’s been a slice.

(01:02:42):

Always a pleasure, Christopher Beaty.

(01:02:44):

Thank you.

(01:02:46):

Interesting People is produced by Chris Beaty in his basement.

(01:02:50):

Thank you to Kylie Sheehy for always being a thrill to talk to,

(01:02:53):

even when it’s just to make fun of me.

(01:02:55):

Be sure to check out her kick-ass non-profit she’s a part of, Mobile Loaves and Fishes.

(01:03:01):

Its web address looks a lot like MILF.org, but it’s not that one.

(01:03:04):

It’s MLF.org.

(01:03:06):

MILF.org is something else.

(01:03:09):

Signing off from the greatest city on earth,

(01:03:11):

some might even say better than Austin,

(01:03:12):

Texas,

(01:03:14):

Omaha,

(01:03:14):

Nebraska.

You know Bob is fun to listen to, so are my other friends. You’ll want to subscribe.

Today’s guest is retired journalist,

(00:00:33):

Wahoo,

(00:00:34):

Nebraska historian,

(00:00:36):

and not my real uncle,

(00:00:37):

Uncle Bob Copperstone.

(00:00:41):

All right, you ready for this?

(00:00:43):

Ready as I’ll ever be.

(00:00:45):

Okay, so the idea behind this podcast is to convince people that they’re interesting.

(00:00:50):

Do you need to be convinced that you’re interesting?

(00:00:52):

I feel like you probably already know that.

(00:00:54):

What makes you interesting?

(00:00:56):

Oh, hell, I earned it.

(00:00:59):

How’d you earn it?

(00:01:01):

By being interesting for so long.

(00:01:03):

Okay.

(00:01:04):

When did you first start being interesting?

(00:01:06):

I never stopped.

(00:01:08):

You were born that way?

(00:01:09):

I was born that way.

(00:01:10):

All right.

(00:01:11):

So you’re born in Wahoo, right?

(00:01:13):

Isn’t everybody?

(00:01:14):

Oh, I guess I was wrong.

(00:01:15):

Everybody that matters, huh?

(00:01:16):

That’s true.

(00:01:18):

All right.

(00:01:18):

So here’s the list.

(00:01:19):

I made a list of things that I knew about you.

(00:01:20):

So you’re born in Wahoo.

(00:01:22):

You helped run the family-owned Wigwam Cafe as a kid.

(00:01:26):

At some point, you moved to California, and you became a newspaper reporter.

(00:01:31):

You’re married at some point, I think.

(00:01:33):

You don’t really talk about it to me.

(00:01:34):

And then at some point you drove a truck cross-country picking up antiques.

(00:01:38):

You told me that once.

(00:01:40):

And then you moved back to Wahoo to retire.

(00:01:42):

Was that about right?

(00:01:43):

That’s about right.

(00:01:44):

Okay.

(00:01:44):

Why did you decide to become a reporter then?

(00:01:48):

Ever since I was in high school, I was a bad student.

(00:01:54):

Mediocre Ds and Cs.

(00:01:59):

And I thought,

(00:01:59):

well,

(00:02:00):

at one of the classes,

(00:02:03):

a civics class,

(00:02:05):

the teacher asked us what we want to do when we get elderly.

(00:02:15):

And I thought, well, I want to be a reporter.

(00:02:20):

Well, that goes back quite a way.

(00:02:23):

Did you know any reporters?

(00:02:24):

Why did you tell her you wanted to be one?

(00:02:28):

Well, wasn’t Clark Kent a reporter?

(00:02:33):

So you saw a little Superman in yourself?

(00:02:35):

Probably.

(00:02:38):

At least a close friend.

(00:02:42):

Anyhow,

(00:02:45):

I started,

(00:02:47):

when I went to California,

(00:02:49):

or before I went to California,

(00:02:52):

I worked at the Bellevue Press.

(00:02:55):

right after graduation and I had that in front of me and I worked in a print shop,

(00:03:05):

a newspaper print shop here in Wahoo and in Bellevue.

(00:03:12):

And in Bellevue they let me work,

(00:03:15):

they let me interview a guy who lived in a trailer court and had a thousand

(00:03:23):

Tropical Fish in it and then their name was Trout.

(00:03:27):

And so I made a little story out of that and they printed it on the front page.

(00:03:32):

Since I was working on the press,

(00:03:36):

the big cylinder press that printed the paper,

(00:03:41):

I was able to print my own first,

(00:03:43):

my first byline.

(00:03:47):

I both wrote it and printed it.

(00:03:52):

And I still have that.

(00:03:54):

Anyhow,

(00:03:54):

I started with the newspapers there,

(00:03:56):

then I went to California after a year in Bellevue.

(00:04:00):

I had gotten a Triumph TR3 sports car, an English sports car, and I drove that to California.

(00:04:12):

I mailed the passenger seat ahead of time and put all my belongings on that spot.

(00:04:25):

I drove to California.

(00:04:27):

Got a job at a print shop there.

(00:04:30):

While I was looking for work, I didn’t know how to type.

(00:04:38):

And I asked the managing editor of the paper that I wanted to work at.

(00:04:43):

He says, fill this out.

(00:04:44):

And I said, can I use, can I write?

(00:04:48):

Can I fill it out with a written one?

(00:04:51):

And he says, yeah.

(00:04:53):

But, of course, I didn’t get that job.

(00:04:57):

What made you want to go to California?

(00:04:59):

Why didn’t you just get a job closer to Nebraska?

(00:05:02):

Well,

(00:05:02):

I did work as a printer’s devil at the Wahoo newspaper in the print shop when I was

(00:05:08):

still in high school.

(00:05:12):

When I worked in Bellevue, I lived in a flop house on 13th Street in Omaha.

(00:05:20):

And I had my time off tier 3 then.

(00:05:22):

And I spent one winter in Omaha driving through that little sports car,

(00:05:29):

trying to drive that through the snow.

(00:05:31):

This ain’t for me.

(00:05:34):

California calls.

(00:05:35):

Took off between snowstorms.

(00:05:38):

I drove as far south as I could to get out of that blizzard and carried it all the

(00:05:44):

way to California.

(00:05:46):

In your sports car?

(00:05:48):

Yeah.

(00:05:49):

Did you have a job then or you just decided to get out of the winter?

(00:05:52):

I stayed with my aunt and uncle.

(00:05:53):

They lived there since the 40s and that was my shelter.

(00:05:59):

Did you get a job after you moved or did you have a job lined up already?

(00:06:02):

No, I went job searching.

(00:06:05):

I ended up at a print shop in San Gabriel that printed wedding invitations and so

(00:06:12):

forth and that carried me through for about a year.

(00:06:18):

And I decided to, I wasn’t making it at that print shop.

(00:06:23):

I wasn’t making enough money.

(00:06:25):

So I quit there and decided, my cousins were fuller brushmen.

(00:06:37):

And I became a fuller brushman.

(00:06:41):

Of the door-to-door salesman?

(00:06:43):

Selling brushes?

(00:06:45):

Selling brushes.

(00:06:47):

Were you good at it?

(00:06:49):

Well, I went from door to door.

(00:06:54):

I didn’t, I was too shy to meet people.

(00:06:58):

I’d go door to door.

(00:06:59):

I’d say, nobody home, I hope, I hope.

(00:07:02):

You’d mutter that to yourself?

(00:07:02):

I’d mutter that and then plow it on through.

(00:07:05):

And if I got somebody’s attention,

(00:07:07):

I just held them there with,

(00:07:09):

practically grabbed them by the collar and told them to listen to what I have to

(00:07:12):

say.

(00:07:14):

And I didn’t do well at all.

(00:07:18):

I drove back to Wahoo.

(00:07:20):

What was your pitch to sell fuller brushes?

(00:07:24):

They last for a good long time.

(00:07:27):

Did they?

(00:07:28):

Whatever they’re looking at, that’ll last for a good long time.

(00:07:32):

Somehow I thought that would be magic, but it didn’t work.

(00:07:39):

It’s, uh...

(00:07:42):

So I went back to Wahoo.

(00:07:43):

So you went to, you’re a fuller brush salesman in California, you went back to Wahoo after that?

(00:07:47):

Mm-hmm.

(00:07:48):

Okay.

(00:07:48):

Yeah, I was kind of discouraged.

(00:07:50):

Oh, I was going to go to school.

(00:07:51):

Okay.

(00:07:52):

And I did.

(00:07:53):

Okay.

(00:07:53):

I went to the University of Nebraska.

(00:07:56):

Back to Lincoln, went to school.

(00:07:59):

Oh, when I came back from California, oh, I took, taking classes by mail.

(00:08:06):

From California?

(00:08:08):

No, from Wahoo.

(00:08:09):

Did you ever actually go to class in Lincoln?

(00:08:12):

Or was it all by mail?

(00:08:14):

Yeah, I did.

(00:08:14):

I took French class about a semester.

(00:08:18):

There was a print shop course.

(00:08:21):

Okay.

(00:08:24):

It was in the basement of one of the buildings there.

(00:08:27):

And I really took to the print shop work, type of work.

(00:08:33):

I did that real well.

(00:08:36):

So I thought well I’ll quit my job here but my grades were falling real bad at the university.

(00:08:44):

That’s when I went to Bellevue.

(00:08:47):

I was doing real well at the print shop there at the university that I thought I’d

(00:08:51):

get a job doing the same thing and get paid for it.

(00:08:56):

So I worked for the Bellevue Press for about a year and decided I’d go back to

(00:09:04):

California and look for a job.

(00:09:07):

All right.

(00:09:08):

So you grew up in Wahoo.

(00:09:09):

You went to California, became a fuller brush salesman, came back.

(00:09:14):

Went to school,

(00:09:18):

got a job,

(00:09:19):

took a bunch of classes and got a job in Bellevue,

(00:09:21):

and then you decided to go back to California in order to get a reporting job,

(00:09:26):

a newspaper job.

(00:09:28):

And I did.

(00:09:28):

I told the editor there, I’ll work for a dollar an hour.

(00:09:32):

Yeah.

(00:09:33):

And they hired me and liked it.

(00:09:37):

As a reporter?

(00:09:39):

As a reporter, yeah.

(00:09:40):

I had my own paper, a little weekly paper.

(00:09:44):

I went to a city council meeting, my first one.

(00:09:48):

That was part of the job.

(00:09:50):

You keep track of what the city is doing.

(00:09:52):

And Covina is a town of about $50,000, something like that.

(00:09:54):

That’s small in Los Angeles County.

(00:10:12):

I went there and listened to the little discussions.

(00:10:17):

Went back the next day.

(00:10:19):

Wednesday was press day.

(00:10:22):

And I sat at my desk and Jim, the managing editor, he said, well, Bob, let’s have your story.

(00:10:32):

I sat there and I sat there.

(00:10:34):

Dune came and went.

(00:10:38):

Jim finally says, Bob, where’s your story?

(00:10:42):

I said, Jim, I don’t know what happened.

(00:10:48):

I thought, well, that’s the end of Bob.

(00:10:51):

Jim laughed.

(00:10:52):

Didn’t know what happened with your story?

(00:10:54):

No, I didn’t know what happened so I could write about it.

(00:10:57):

I didn’t know how to write it.

(00:10:58):

Nothing happened of note at the city council meeting.

(00:11:01):

Apparently.

(00:11:04):

I knew what happened.

(00:11:05):

I didn’t know how to put it to words.

(00:11:08):

Jim kind of chuckled.

(00:11:11):

And he got on the phone to the city administrator and said, hey, Joe, what happened last night?

(00:11:20):

And Jim wrote the story for me.

(00:11:22):

Did he give you credit?

(00:11:24):

Did he say it was written by you?

(00:11:25):

No, no, no.

(00:11:26):

Okay.

(00:11:28):

But that was the last time Jim had to write my story.

(00:11:34):

I went to the next one.

(00:11:35):

I went to the library where there were three papers covering it.

(00:11:43):

And I read what they wrote and got this hang of it and was able to write my own

(00:11:51):

stories after that.

(00:11:53):

So you went and you read what other people wrote about the thing that you were

(00:11:57):

supposed to cover?

(00:11:58):

Yes, I read Jim’s story and Farewell is the House Done and I learned from that.

(00:12:07):

All the time learning how to type.

(00:12:09):

Yeah.

(00:12:10):

But it worked.

(00:12:11):

On a manual typewriter?

(00:12:12):

What was that process?

(00:12:14):

You had a manual typewriter and then you... You turn the copy into the back shop.

(00:12:20):

They read it.

(00:12:22):

They put it on a line of type.

(00:12:24):

Cast the lead type.

(00:12:29):

And put that lead type on a...

(00:12:33):

Printing Press and Print Your Paper.

(00:12:37):

Is it just one at a time, every letter at a time, or how do they cast it?

(00:12:42):

No, no, no.

(00:12:44):

They read my copy and type it out on the linotype.

(00:12:49):

There’s a separate machine that you type it into?

(00:12:51):

No, the linotype does.

(00:12:53):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:12:54):

A different person does?

(00:12:55):

Yeah.

(00:12:55):

Okay.

(00:12:57):

I turn in the paper to the back shop.

(00:12:59):

I turn in my paper to the back shop.

(00:13:03):

and story to the back shop and they put it down to type and print it.

(00:13:08):

So a linotype machine,

(00:13:09):

that was what you learned how to use and what you did in Bellevue or is that

(00:13:13):

something else?

(00:13:13):

No, my work stopped there.

(00:13:18):

The reporters don’t do the linotype.

(00:13:22):

But you did when you were in Bellevue, so you did your own?

(00:13:25):

No, I typed my own.

(00:13:27):

Okay.

(00:13:27):

No, I typed

(00:13:29):

When you were a typesetter, didn’t you say you did that before too?

(00:13:32):

Before it?

(00:13:34):

Oh, I see what you’re getting at.

(00:13:36):

No, I never did that.

(00:13:37):

I never had to work the back shot.

(00:13:39):

I never had to print the paper myself as a reporter.

(00:13:44):

Okay.

(00:13:46):

Well,

(00:13:47):

it gets a little more complicated because I ran a Ludlow,

(00:13:50):

which Ludlow Press,

(00:13:53):

Ludlow typesetter,

(00:13:55):

which printed the fancy type.

(00:13:59):

Okay.

(00:13:59):

A larger type that wouldn’t fit on a line of type.

(00:14:06):

So what was your next big story?

(00:14:07):

So were you still covering city council meetings after that?

(00:14:10):

Yeah, you do everything that you expect a little weekly paper to use, yeah.

(00:14:18):

And sometimes it’s interesting, sometimes it’s not.

(00:14:24):

How long ago were you at that newspaper?

(00:14:30):

Actually,

(00:14:31):

the Monrovia Daily News,

(00:14:34):

or Monrovia was another paper in that San Gabriel Valley area,

(00:14:40):

and they hired me as a reporter after that,

(00:14:47):

the one that I had to learn on.

(00:14:51):

And from there, that was a small daily report.

(00:14:59):

And eventually the San Gibe Valley Daily Tribune,

(00:15:04):

which was nearing 100,000 circulation daily,

(00:15:08):

that was a big paper.

(00:15:11):

And they lifted me out of Monrovia and the next step up was the Tribune.

(00:15:20):

And I rose to the assistant city editor of that paper before I retired.

(00:15:32):

And that was the last paper you were at?

(00:15:33):

Yeah.

(00:15:34):

Okay.

(00:15:35):

So what was your duties like as the assistant city editor?

(00:15:42):

They had a staff of about 20.

(00:15:45):

And five photographers.

(00:15:50):

And I was responsible for looking first at the copy that came through those

(00:15:56):

reporters and pass it on to the next editor.

(00:16:02):

Do you have any stories you remember that you had

(00:16:07):

Were some of your favorites?

(00:16:08):

Oh, excuse me, yes.

(00:16:10):

I worked as a reporter for about five years.

(00:16:14):

Then I was an editor.

(00:16:16):

Yeah, I had some good stories when I was a reporter.

(00:16:23):

I had a humorous vein sometimes.

(00:16:29):

And I had my own political...

(00:16:35):

Political writer, editor, writer for a couple of years.

(00:16:41):

Any stick out?

(00:16:42):

What was one that you remember that you thought was good?

(00:16:45):

I was supposed to go to the hotel where Bobby Kennedy was murdered.

(00:16:50):

I was supposed to go to that lay in Los Angeles when I was editor of the political

(00:16:57):

editor,

(00:16:58):

but I couldn’t make it and missed it,

(00:17:00):

so I missed it.

(00:17:04):

Writing an obituary for that.

(00:17:07):

Really?

(00:17:08):

Do you remember why you missed it?

(00:17:11):

I didn’t want to go.

(00:17:12):

Okay.

(00:17:14):

I didn’t want to drive to Los Angeles.

(00:17:16):

So you found an excuse to get out of it, huh?

(00:17:18):

Get out of it.

(00:17:20):

Foolish man.

(00:17:22):

So what made you want to go back to Oahu?

(00:17:24):

Why didn’t you stay in California?

(00:17:25):

My mother was not well, and I was about ready to retire.

(00:17:32):

And you’ve been living in Oahu ever since then?

(00:17:40):

Yeah.

(00:17:45):

California never was home to me.

(00:17:48):

Now my sister Rochelle

(00:17:51):

And my little sister Janie both moved to California too.

(00:17:58):

Janie died pretty much early in life, bless her heart.

(00:18:04):

But Rochelle is still there to this day and that’s home to her.

(00:18:09):

She got married and raised a family.

(00:18:16):

I got married and got a divorce.

(00:18:19):

And so I never set any roots at that point.

(00:18:24):

I should probably clarify you’re not actually my uncle.

(00:18:27):

So whose uncle are you?

(00:18:28):

Everybody calls you Uncle Bob.

(00:18:30):

Rochelle and Janie, my sisters.

(00:18:34):

My niece and my two nieces, Kathy and Tina, are Janie’s children.

(00:18:46):

Actually, to my neighbors, I’m Uncle Bob.

(00:18:48):

Yeah?

(00:18:50):

Everybody, even your neighbors call you Uncle Bob?

(00:18:53):

Some do, yeah.

(00:18:54):

Yeah?

(00:18:56):

Yep.

(00:18:57):

Kind of trips off the tongue.

(00:18:58):

Yeah?

(00:18:59):

Yeah.

(00:19:00):

And I’m so damn lovable.

(00:19:02):

Yeah.

(00:19:03):

You might as well be everyone’s uncle.

(00:19:05):

That’s true.

(00:19:06):

Why not?

(00:19:06):

It doesn’t cost anything.

(00:19:07):

Yeah.

(00:19:08):

My kids are always,

(00:19:10):

they call you Uncle Bob and they try to figure out how you’re related to them too.

(00:19:13):

Oh, is that right?

(00:19:14):

Yes, it hurts.

(00:19:16):

Yeah, that could be kind of, that could be kind of

(00:19:22):

So why do you why do you write so much about the wigwam cafe and your childhood

(00:19:27):

what is It’s for some reason I can’t remember what I had for breakfast But I can

(00:19:41):

remember when I was five years old.

(00:19:43):

I was first day in kindergarten And it just comes to be natural.

(00:19:48):

Yeah

(00:19:48):

It’s just,

(00:19:50):

I mean,

(00:19:51):

down to the,

(00:19:52):

what I was smelling when I first walked outdoors kind of remembrance.

(00:20:00):

It just comes back.

(00:20:03):

And if I’m not exactly on cue, I’m absolutely correct.

(00:20:09):

There’s nobody who’s gonna correct me.

(00:20:15):

I can be Superman’s uncle

(00:20:18):

Nobody would doubt it.

(00:20:20):

Nobody would doubt if you’re Superman’s uncle?

(00:20:22):

That’s true.

(00:20:23):

I won’t challenge you on it.

(00:20:28):

You could bring up figures and dates, but it wouldn’t help me.

(00:20:34):

How much has Wahoo changed since those times?

(00:20:36):

Has it changed a lot or not by much?

(00:20:40):

Just about what you’d expect.

(00:20:43):

Missing some of the good stuff, God knows.

(00:20:48):

But it weren’t all that good.

(00:20:54):

Everybody lives a life that looks better from a distance.

(00:21:00):

Yeah.

(00:21:01):

I’m one of them.

(00:21:03):

Your life looks better from a distance?

(00:21:06):

It’s, well, I’m different from what I was, so so am I.

(00:21:19):

So you would say Wahoo’s changed a little bit,

(00:21:21):

but at the end of the day,

(00:21:23):

it’s still got a lot of the same things or a lot different?

(00:21:26):

I mean,

(00:21:27):

you chose to retire and live here the rest of your life,

(00:21:29):

even after seeing the glamour of Hollywood and California.

(00:21:35):

Well,

(00:21:35):

I tell you,

(00:21:36):

I miss more than that,

(00:21:39):

because I can entertain myself just about anywhere,

(00:21:42):

but more than that,

(00:21:45):

I miss the people.

(00:21:46):

Of Wahoo?

(00:21:48):

Yeah.

(00:21:50):

What do you like about the people of Wahoo?

(00:21:57):

Not much.

(00:21:59):

You want to change your answer then?

(00:22:01):

I wonder about that.

(00:22:05):

Actually, life is the further away from it, the better and the milder it becomes.

(00:22:12):

Well, you have anything else you want to... We’ve been going for about a half hour.

(00:22:15):

That’s pretty good.

(00:22:16):

Anything else you feel like... Any wisdom you want to impart to the world?

(00:22:21):

Any thoughts about... Oh, God, don’t follow me.

(00:22:23):

Don’t follow you?

(00:22:28):

You can do better.

(00:22:29):

No, I... Wahoo people have a sense of humor.

(00:22:37):

And I was born with it and I kept it.

(00:22:41):

I think I owe it to a lot of the people I grew up with who treated me mildly and decently.

(00:22:48):

Bless their hearts.

(00:22:59):

I hope to have a worthwhile

(00:23:10):

lifetime.

(00:23:13):

Sometimes when I wasn’t as human as I thought I should be, I forgive myself.

(00:23:24):

I did the best I could.

(00:23:25):

We all do the best we can.

(00:23:28):

And what they do in Wahoo is pretty damn good.

(00:23:34):

But the damn weather.

(00:23:37):

Curse that weather.

(00:23:41):

California’s got them beat on that, huh?

(00:23:43):

Oh my gosh.

(00:23:47):

I wonder what the heck I’m doing here sometimes when the snow flies.

(00:23:55):

I always did.

(00:23:56):

Now my dad was the, I don’t know why I didn’t inherit more of his.

(00:24:06):

He was born to be an Eskimo and missed his calling.

(00:24:11):

I was on the back end.

(00:24:15):

I was a child at the time.

(00:24:17):

I was riding in the back end of his 1947 Harley Davidson Hill Climber motorcycle.

(00:24:30):

And it didn’t even have a,

(00:24:31):

it had a little small shield,

(00:24:34):

windshield on the driver’s benefit up front.

(00:24:40):

But his arms were stretched out, bare arms, I might add.

(00:24:46):

It was wintertime.

(00:24:48):

Bare arms.

(00:24:49):

And I said, Dad, I’m freezing back here.

(00:24:55):

Aren’t you cold?

(00:24:56):

He said, no, no, no, I’m not cold.

(00:24:59):

Your arms are out there in the wind.

(00:25:03):

No, no, feel them.

(00:25:05):

Warm as toast.

(00:25:07):

In the wind.

(00:25:08):

In the wintertime.

(00:25:10):

Bless his heart.

(00:25:12):

So you didn’t inherit that from him?

(00:25:16):

I wish I had inherited his Harley.

(00:25:19):

You wish you inherited his Harley?

(00:25:20):

Yeah, I wish I had.

(00:25:22):

Later he had a real knucklehead full size.

(00:25:28):

Boy oh that the hill climber though that I was on the back of that’s a little

(00:25:37):

leather pad leather stuffed pad on that fender and that was designed for the hill

(00:25:45):

climber driver rider driver I guess to sit his butt back there and put the weight

(00:25:53):

on the

(00:25:56):

Powered Rear Wheel.

(00:25:59):

Well, I sat on that.

(00:26:00):

I was about 10 or 11, God knows.

(00:26:03):

And we were going to a hill climber at Morse Bluff.

(00:26:10):

This was in about 1949, I guess.

(00:26:13):

And he had to stop every mile or so on the bumpy country road

(00:26:23):

So my kidneys would stop aching.

(00:26:27):

I was bawling back there.

(00:26:30):

And we never could make a straight line to it because it wasn’t hell on wheels.

(00:26:38):

There wasn’t much of a suspension on it?

(00:26:41):

It was a hard tail.

(00:26:46):

None of that sissy stuff for us.

(00:26:48):

God knows I wanted it.

(00:26:55):

Didn’t you say he made like a special pad just for you to sit on on that bike?

(00:26:59):

No, that’s what that hill climber did.

(00:27:03):

That was its purpose.

(00:27:06):

A hill climber.

(00:27:07):

They had contests at Morse Bluff in this case.

(00:27:12):

And they’d all try to get up to the top of the hill without falling on their tail.

(00:27:21):

It was a contest.

(00:27:23):

I thought you told a story once that your dad had a special seat that you sat on

(00:27:27):

the back of his seat.

(00:27:29):

No, that was the seat I was talking about.

(00:27:31):

That was not meant for passengers, but it was designed for it.

(00:27:42):

Actually, Dad had bought that hillclamber from my cousin, my elder cousin,

(00:27:53):

He dumped it and never got back on it.

(00:27:58):

They were designed to be fallen upon and served a purpose well.

(00:28:06):

Designed to be fallen on?

(00:28:10):

To be dumped.

(00:28:11):

Oh, to be dumped.

(00:28:13):

No, the purpose of the hill climb was to stay on without getting dumped.

(00:28:18):

If you do, you get back on.

(00:28:20):

Okay.

(00:28:22):

So they’re meant to take a lot of abuse then?

(00:28:25):

Yeah, they were abusive, that’s a fact.

(00:28:30):

When’s the last time you were on a motorcycle?

(00:28:33):

I bought one of my own.

(00:28:34):

I bought a Suzuki when I was in California.

(00:28:38):

We rode that all over California.

(00:28:41):

I loved it.

(00:28:43):

Well, any parting thoughts or wisdom or anything else?

(00:28:48):

Oh, Lordy.

(00:28:55):

Yeah, brother, can you spare a dime?

(00:28:57):

A dime won’t get you much anymore.

(00:29:01):

Hey, baby, you might give it what you can.

(00:29:04):

You need to adjust your phrases for inflation there.

(00:29:08):

Brother, can you spare a 10-spot?

(00:29:10):

I’ll spare you a dime, that’s easy.

(00:29:13):

No, that’s not easy, I don’t have one.

(00:29:15):

You could have found something in my center console in my car over lunch.

(00:29:22):

I said I could have given you a whole bunch of dimes out of the center console of

(00:29:25):

my car when we were getting lunch earlier.

(00:29:30):

What would you do with the dime if I gave you one?

(00:29:34):

Probably tighten a screw.

(00:29:39):

Maybe I ought to get you a screwdriver.

(00:29:41):

No, no, no, this will work fine.

(00:29:44):

Haven’t you ever done that?

(00:29:45):

I mean, I’m...

(00:29:48):

I’m sure I have at some point in my life.

(00:29:50):

No, you can’t use a credit card either.

(00:29:54):

I tried that once and it broke.

(00:29:55):

The credit card broke?

(00:29:56):

Yeah.

(00:29:57):

Oh, no.

(00:29:58):

What kind of screws do you need?

(00:30:00):

How many screws do you need tightened?

(00:30:04):

Counting my brain?

(00:30:05):

Yeah, it seems like you got a few screws loose.

(00:30:07):

I think your screw is loose.

(00:30:12):

I’m good.

(00:30:13):

All right, let’s wrap this up.

(00:30:15):

Thanks, Bob.

(00:30:15):

I don’t know how to wrap up an interview, but you were the first one.

(00:30:19):

How’d it go?

(00:30:20):

Well, listen, I wish I could do better, but I was glad to try.

(00:30:26):

You did great.

(00:30:30):

All right, I’m going to turn this thing off.

(00:30:34):

Interesting People is produced by Chris Beaty in his basement.

(00:30:39):

And today’s episode was recorded in Uncle Bob’s recliner in his Wahoo, Nebraska living room.

(00:30:45):

If you want to hear more of Uncle Bob’s stories,

(00:30:48):

check out the As Told by Uncle Bob podcast episodes from the As Told by C.S.

(00:30:53):

Beaty podcast universe.

(00:30:55):

Please subscribe and tell all your friends about my interesting friends.

(00:30:59):

And if you have interesting friends, well, let me know so I can talk to them.

(00:31:04):

Signing off from the greatest city on earth, Omaha, Nebraska.

There are way more interesting people coming who you’re not going to want to miss. Subscribe to make sure you don’t miss them!

Today’s guest is the guy who designed my book,

(00:00:33):

was in a band with me,

(00:00:35):

and sold me this podcast gear.

(00:00:37):

Author and artist, Ben Looters.

(00:00:42):

I don’t.

(00:00:42):

I bought this stuff from you and it took us two hours to do it and we didn’t make

(00:00:46):

it any farther.

(00:00:47):

And that was the story of the worst podcast purchase I’ve ever made.

(00:00:53):

Is this on?

(00:00:53):

Are you recording right now?

(00:00:54):

I am.

(00:00:55):

I mean, this may not make it to the end.

(00:00:56):

I got this magic audacity feature where for the next seven hours you can

(00:01:00):

individually cut certain things and change it and delete it.

(00:01:04):

It takes a really long time and it doesn’t turn out very well, but it’s awesome.

(00:01:09):

Oh man, I want to make sure I’m not like way over here like Bob.

(00:01:12):

Well, just like, should we put you in a rocking chair?

(00:01:14):

Because that’s how he did it.

(00:01:15):

Oh dude, that does sound good.

(00:01:17):

Yeah, he loved it.

(00:01:18):

When was the time you felt like a loser?

(00:01:21):

I didn’t

(00:01:39):

But I got a lot of matted fur cut out of my dog for that.

(00:01:43):

Well, hey, any time, bro.

(00:01:46):

Is that what it takes?

(00:01:47):

That’s the kind of show this is, just so you know.

(00:01:50):

It’s also the show that I’m getting really hot in this sweatshirt, so I’m going to take it off.

(00:01:54):

Oh, man.

(00:01:54):

I feel like this is why it needs to be a video podcast.

(00:01:57):

It is.

(00:01:57):

Every five minutes, Chris takes off another piece of clothing.

(00:02:01):

I reveal another tattoo.

(00:02:04):

Is that the only tattoo you... No, I got many.

(00:02:09):

You actually?

(00:02:09):

Yeah, you want me to do a naked podcast?

(00:02:12):

Is this going to be like the strip poker version of podcasts?

(00:02:15):

The thing about you,

(00:02:16):

Chris,

(00:02:17):

is like,

(00:02:17):

I think I know you really well,

(00:02:19):

but I don’t know you well enough to know sometimes when you’re joking and when

(00:02:23):

you’re not.

(00:02:24):

I never tell a lie.

(00:02:26):

That’s true.

(00:02:27):

I’m usually very odd.

(00:02:28):

I usually just try to frame things that makes you wonder if I’m telling the truth.

(00:02:31):

I think you say things that I hope you’re lying.

(00:02:34):

Yeah, they’re almost always true.

(00:02:36):

Yes, I have additional tattoos.

(00:02:39):

Would you like to see them?

(00:02:40):

Here’s one.

(00:02:41):

Oh, sure.

(00:02:41):

Here’s this one.

(00:02:42):

You should recognize this one.

(00:02:44):

Oh, that’s beautiful.

(00:02:46):

That’s the asterisk that I designed on the cover of your book.

(00:02:50):

I already told you that one’s below the belt.

(00:02:52):

No,

(00:02:52):

this is the tattoo from my wedding reception that you were at that apparently you

(00:02:57):

didn’t pay very good attention to.

(00:02:59):

Not enough to get it tattooed.

(00:03:01):

I have the arbitrary Greek tattoo that says,

(00:03:05):

hey,

(00:03:05):

this isn’t Greek and I don’t know what it means,

(00:03:07):

but it’s not Chinese,

(00:03:08):

so it’s trendier.

(00:03:10):

And then I have on my back, I have That one’s harder to do.

(00:03:14):

I can come over there and undress you a little bit.

(00:03:17):

It’s going to be hard to get on this mic here.

(00:03:20):

That one’s got cocaine leaves on it.

(00:03:24):

That’s the seal of where my kids were born.

(00:03:26):

And literally the outskirt of it, this is another, is he telling the truth?

(00:03:29):

It’s cocaine leaves.

(00:03:31):

Is it actually?

(00:03:31):

Yeah, coca leaves, not cocaine.

(00:03:33):

Oh, it’s because of Coca-Cola.

(00:03:35):

They’re big fans of Coca-Cola and Tuluwa.

(00:03:38):

Yeah, Tuluwa.

(00:03:39):

Do they make you get that when you adopt someone from there?

(00:03:42):

It’s part of the process.

(00:03:43):

It’s paperwork.

(00:03:44):

That’s why it takes so long.

(00:03:45):

Stand in line for your tattoo.

(00:03:47):

Yeah.

(00:03:47):

Yeah everyone’s got a good tattoo we adopted three kids so all of them have the matching tattoo

(00:03:52):

Make sure you’re a bad parent by getting a tattoo right away.

(00:03:57):

Literally,

(00:03:57):

I waited to get this tattoo until after the kids were adopted because I had this,

(00:04:01):

we were watching it,

(00:04:02):

my kids were adopted from Columbia,

(00:04:03):

so we had watched a lot of Narcos before we went,

(00:04:06):

which is all about- Is that required viewing?

(00:04:08):

Yeah, that’s another part of the problem.

(00:04:10):

That’s also why it takes so long because there’s a lot of seasons to get through.

(00:04:12):

And I literally thought through my head,

(00:04:14):

because you know they have gang tattoos and I’ve always heard people,

(00:04:17):

maybe not always,

(00:04:17):

I’ve heard that people will get gang tattoos and they’ll be like,

(00:04:21):

you don’t have a gang tattoo then they get like I don’t know what kind of show this

(00:04:24):

they get their ass kicked I don’t know what my level of if I’m gonna do the e or

(00:04:27):

not on this podcast we didn’t swear with Bob I think oh I’ve heard these stories

(00:04:32):

they like get their ass kicked for having like fake gang tattoos by real gang

(00:04:35):

members I don’t know if that’s an urban legend but like so my first thought was I’m

(00:04:39):

gonna get this tattoo of where my kids are from and find out that that’s some

(00:04:43):

Colombian drug cartel logo and like

(00:04:47):

Either that or it’s going to save your life.

(00:04:50):

Probably.

(00:04:51):

They’re going to be coming at you and you flash your tattoo.

(00:04:55):

And they’re going to be like, oh, he’s one of us.

(00:04:57):

El gringo.

(00:04:58):

It’s like the thing that saves you.

(00:04:59):

It’s like, yeah, that would be really good.

(00:05:01):

I just knew that I was going to be in a pool with my kids that I couldn’t speak to.

(00:05:04):

And they’re either going to offer me cocaine or I don’t know.

(00:05:09):

I’ve seen a lot of narcos and they never repeat a murder twice.

(00:05:12):

So I don’t know what they would come up with.

(00:05:15):

Oh, man.

(00:05:16):

So this is what podcasting is like, huh?

(00:05:18):

I guess so.

(00:05:18):

It kind of feels like just talking.

(00:05:20):

So far, it’s been very visual.

(00:05:22):

I do think this,

(00:05:23):

I think if you’re going to keep going in this way,

(00:05:25):

where you’re taking off layers of clothes,

(00:05:27):

you’re showing tattoos,

(00:05:30):

giving people questionable drinks,

(00:05:33):

this is something people need to see.

(00:05:34):

Well,

(00:05:34):

so far,

(00:05:35):

the only hookup I have with podcast equipment is you,

(00:05:38):

and you’ve proven yourself to not be a very good source.

(00:05:41):

Hey, I told you to get the right cables.

(00:05:44):

You got them.

(00:05:44):

You made it work.

(00:05:45):

Yeah, and

(00:05:46):

Those didn’t set you back too far, did they?

(00:05:48):

Yeah, those Amazon Basics $7 a cable really did the trick after two hours of troubleshooting.

(00:05:55):

All right, Ben Looters.

(00:05:57):

What makes you interesting?

(00:05:58):

Oh, man.

(00:06:00):

What makes me... That’s the first question?

(00:06:02):

No, the first question was, when did you feel like a loser?

(00:06:04):

And you already did that.

(00:06:04):

Oh, that’s true.

(00:06:05):

And the second question was, do you want to see all my tattoos?

(00:06:07):

That’s true.

(00:06:08):

We’re like halfway through the show.

(00:06:10):

We’re five minutes.

(00:06:11):

This is a seven-minute podcast.

(00:06:12):

Yeah.

(00:06:13):

We’re at the end where you reveal why I’m not, why I’m interesting.

(00:06:17):

The trick to editing this is you do everything in like reverse chronological order.

(00:06:21):

Oh man, what makes me interesting?

(00:06:24):

I mean, I think I’m like moderately interesting.

(00:06:29):

I think I have like,

(00:06:30):

when I talk to other people,

(00:06:32):

like I do feel like I have a pretty interesting job and like my origin story is

(00:06:38):

somewhat unique.

(00:06:39):

So I don’t know, I think I’m somewhat interesting.

(00:06:42):

Do you think I’m interesting, Chris?

(00:06:43):

I feel it’s a weird thing to be asked, like, what makes me interesting.

(00:06:46):

It feels like I have to,

(00:06:47):

like,

(00:06:48):

defend myself or do,

(00:06:49):

like,

(00:06:49):

the Midwestern thing where I’m like,

(00:06:51):

no,

(00:06:51):

I’m not interested.

(00:06:52):

Yeah, where you’re so modest that you just, you have to say I’m a very bland personality.

(00:06:56):

Yeah, exactly.

(00:06:58):

Because I think you’re very bland,

(00:07:00):

so I just don’t want to get into a conversation with you about your boring life.

(00:07:03):

Oh, man.

(00:07:04):

Well, no, I think you’re interesting, but I also think that, like,

(00:07:07):

I think that everyone’s interesting, they just don’t necessarily know it.

(00:07:10):

Oh, so I’m not special, is that what you’re saying?

(00:07:12):

No,

(00:07:12):

I’m saying I’m trying to decide whether or not you are,

(00:07:15):

and we’re going to see how this goes.

(00:07:17):

I will say this,

(00:07:18):

yes,

(00:07:18):

I do think you’re interesting,

(00:07:19):

but I also wanted to start,

(00:07:20):

other than the fact that you’re the only person I knew that had podcasting

(00:07:23):

equipment I could buy.

(00:07:23):

Other than that, I did want to, yeah, that part I was not aware of when I made this choice.

(00:07:30):

I did want to start with you because you were the person that I always feel like I

(00:07:34):

never get to say everything I want to say in a conversation.

(00:07:39):

So what I mean by that is there’s certain people who are like,

(00:07:42):

I think I’ll try to think three questions ahead because they’re so uninteresting

(00:07:47):

and be like,

(00:07:48):

oh man,

(00:07:49):

I’m stuck with this person for another 45 minutes.

(00:07:50):

Okay,

(00:07:51):

what are the three conversation starters that I kind of think might get them to do

(00:07:54):

something?

(00:07:55):

With you, it’s the opposite.

(00:07:56):

I come up with,

(00:07:57):

as you’re talking,

(00:07:58):

I think of three different routes we can go on that conversation.

(00:08:02):

Want to see my tattoo?

(00:08:18):

It’s really just Chris looking for an opportunity to show me his tattoos.

(00:08:21):

That’s what this whole podcast is about.

(00:08:23):

So I knew we could at least fill up 45 minutes,

(00:08:25):

but I have gone into lunch appointments before with you.

(00:08:28):

Appointments.

(00:08:28):

Appointments.

(00:08:29):

Yeah, because I’m your client.

(00:08:31):

So there are appointments now.

(00:08:32):

It used to be we would get lunch as friends.

(00:08:34):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:08:34):

It used to be friends.

(00:08:35):

Now it’s all transactional.

(00:08:37):

Business expense.

(00:08:38):

So now when I do my business meetings with you, like any good...

(00:08:42):

All right so here’s my list though all right so you were this is what I know about

(00:08:45):

you based off of what I wrote down

(00:09:10):

Our typewriter.

(00:09:11):

You were born in Japan.

(00:09:12):

That’s right.

(00:09:13):

Wow.

(00:09:13):

You grew up in Hawaii.

(00:09:14):

That’s right.

(00:09:15):

Your dad was a chaplain for some military something or other.

(00:09:18):

Okay.

(00:09:18):

Not a chaplain.

(00:09:20):

Okay.

(00:09:21):

Okay.

(00:09:21):

Here’s where you might.

(00:09:22):

So my dad is actually a Vietnamese linguist.

(00:09:24):

He had a mustache.

(00:09:25):

He did have a mustache.

(00:09:26):

I remember that part.

(00:09:27):

Vietnamese linguist in the military, in the air force.

(00:09:30):

And his job was searching for remains in the Vietnam War.

(00:09:36):

I just thought he was some guy that did a bunch of boring church services.

(00:09:39):

No.

(00:09:40):

Where you might be confused.

(00:09:41):

He’s an elder now in a church.

(00:09:44):

Okay.

(00:09:44):

He got boring.

(00:09:45):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(00:09:46):

But he was cool.

(00:09:48):

My dad was like literal Indiana Jones.

(00:09:51):

Like he went to the jungles of Vietnam and Thailand.

(00:09:55):

He had like a machete.

(00:09:56):

And when you’re doing this job,

(00:09:58):

he’s a military guy,

(00:09:59):

but he’s not allowed to wear military uniforms,

(00:10:01):

so he’s wearing a boonie hat and a button-up unbuttoned.

(00:10:07):

It’s kind of cool.

(00:10:08):

Wait, button-up unbuttoned?

(00:10:09):

Describe that.

(00:10:10):

It’s like Indiana Jones.

(00:10:12):

It’s hot outside, and he has to unbutton a couple.

(00:10:16):

I see.

(00:10:16):

He was a really, really cool dad.

(00:10:19):

And I have all these, I don’t know, just imaginative...

(00:10:25):

We did go to a church where we had to bring a machete and that’s why you in the

(00:10:30):

jungle vacation Bible schools in Hawaii are a lot different that’s right we just

(00:10:34):

did really really

(00:10:59):

Okay, so that brings us to point number three on my list.

(00:11:04):

You grew up in Hawaii.

(00:11:05):

Your dad was not a chaplain.

(00:11:06):

You had something way more interesting that I already forgot.

(00:11:09):

You lived in Maryland for a while?

(00:11:10):

I did.

(00:11:12):

Two tours in Maryland.

(00:11:13):

Okay, two tours.

(00:11:15):

Yeah, I mean, it’s like you get stationed.

(00:11:17):

And my dad...

(00:11:19):

Okay, you should really interview my dad.

(00:11:20):

He’s more interesting.

(00:11:21):

We’ll do that next.

(00:11:22):

When we lived in Hawaii...

(00:11:24):

That’s when my dad would go and do the Vietnamese linguist thing over in Vietnam.

(00:11:29):

He’d take these trips.

(00:11:30):

In Maryland, he worked for the National Security Agency.

(00:11:33):

So he was the guy that was stealing everyone’s phone conversation post 9-11.

(00:11:37):

Yeah, basically.

(00:11:40):

I honestly didn’t know that was a thing before that broke with the Edward Snowden

(00:11:44):

and everything.

(00:11:44):

So the NSA has been stealing our information for longer than I thought.

(00:11:47):

Oh, yeah.

(00:11:47):

Well, so here’s the crazy thing.

(00:11:49):

When I was a kid,

(00:11:51):

and when we were living in Maryland,

(00:11:52):

it was in the 90s,

(00:11:53):

both times,

(00:11:54):

like early 90s and then late 90s,

(00:11:56):

and he used to always say,

(00:11:58):

hey,

(00:11:58):

if I told you,

(00:11:59):

you know,

(00:12:00):

what I did for a living,

(00:12:01):

I’d have to kill you.

(00:12:02):

He loved saying that.

(00:12:03):

Like, whether that was true.

(00:12:04):

He sounds like a green dad.

(00:12:05):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(00:12:06):

But it just filled you with, like, one word.

(00:12:08):

Dread and terror.

(00:12:09):

Yeah, it was like, what?

(00:12:11):

If he accidentally did, would he just kill us?

(00:12:13):

I don’t know.

(00:12:14):

He had a hard day at work and said, man, I get tired of spying on Fidel today.

(00:12:18):

He’s like, ah, s**t, Ben’s here.

(00:12:21):

Well, the funny thing is all that stuff, though, that he was doing is all declassified.

(00:12:25):

Now, he was still sticking to this line of, oh, I can’t tell you, can’t tell you.

(00:12:29):

Then one day,

(00:12:31):

like a few years ago I got him to tell me and I even recorded it because again he

(00:12:36):

can talk about it and it’s the craziest thing yeah again this is why he should be

(00:12:40):

on the podcast does he even want to talk about it like is he like is it just

(00:12:42):

something that’s so uninteresting to him no it’s I think he’s actually he’s quite

(00:12:47):

fascinated by the whole thing but basically think of this

(00:12:51):

When we left Vietnam, the Vietnam War.

(00:12:53):

We as in?

(00:12:54):

The Americans.

(00:12:55):

Okay.

(00:12:55):

Me and you.

(00:12:56):

When we lost.

(00:12:57):

When we went.

(00:12:57):

When you and I lost the Vietnam War.

(00:12:58):

I didn’t know we went there.

(00:13:01):

We left all of this equipment over there.

(00:13:03):

Just like we did with Afghanistan a few years back.

(00:13:06):

Whenever we leave somewhere.

(00:13:07):

You know way more about wars than I do.

(00:13:09):

Brilliant war.

(00:13:10):

That’s why I’m interested.

(00:13:11):

But basically we left all of this communication equipment and all of our stuff there.

(00:13:15):

We just left.

(00:13:17):

But part of it is kind of a strategic thing, because we know how to access all that stuff.

(00:13:21):

So basically, we’ve been spying.

(00:13:23):

After the war, we were actually spying on the Vietnamese using their own equipment.

(00:13:29):

And my dad was part of that.

(00:13:30):

He was translating stuff that they’re saying, because this was before ChatGPT or whatever.

(00:13:33):

Were they saying, hey, what is this thing?

(00:13:35):

How does it work?

(00:13:41):

I think I can share this, but if not, my dad might kill me once this goes live.

(00:13:48):

Good, because I’m running out of questions for you already.

(00:13:54):

I will not be a repeat guest.

(00:13:55):

Not at all.

(00:13:57):

Okay, well we’re off to a good start.

(00:13:58):

You went back to Hawaii.

(00:14:00):

Yep.

(00:14:02):

This is where I get sketchy because this is a story you told me and I didn’t really

(00:14:06):

understand all the nuances of it.

(00:14:08):

You’re writing this all down.

(00:14:09):

Yeah, well I can’t write it down.

(00:14:10):

I was trying to be a good friend and listen to you, but I mean a good business partner.

(00:14:14):

You fell in love with a girl and she moved away, right?

(00:14:18):

Yes.

(00:14:18):

And you thought she was the one.

(00:14:21):

It wasn’t just like

(00:14:23):

You legitimately thought you were going to marry her.

(00:14:26):

I was 12 and she was 9 and I have a song called 12 and 9.

(00:14:29):

By my favorite band.

(00:14:30):

You might remember this.

(00:14:35):

You down.

(00:14:36):

Yeah, so we were kids together.

(00:14:38):

We grew up.

(00:14:38):

We were both homeschool Christian families.

(00:14:42):

We went to the same church.

(00:14:43):

We had all this stuff in common.

(00:14:45):

And it was just like, yeah, young love kind of a thing.

(00:14:48):

But it just never really went away.

(00:14:50):

And then it get to a point where I don’t even really know her,

(00:14:54):

but it’s just built up in my head.

(00:14:56):

You know what I mean?

(00:14:57):

You just feel like you have to marry this person.

(00:15:00):

I’m a very loyal person, and it just like...

(00:15:02):

It felt like I had to, kind of.

(00:15:06):

It felt like I was already married to her.

(00:15:07):

It was fate, inevitable.

(00:15:09):

We never even held hands or anything, but I just feel like I have to.

(00:15:14):

This is the one.

(00:15:16):

She moves away, and then what’s the question?

(00:15:20):

Then what happens?

(00:15:23):

My next part was found her after you moved back to the continental U.S.,

(00:15:28):

asked her parents for a blessing to court or date,

(00:15:30):

maybe marry one day,

(00:15:31):

and your dad shot you down.

(00:15:34):

Her dad shot me down.

(00:15:35):

What happened was,

(00:15:39):

their family retired to Virginia,

(00:15:41):

and I ended up in Nebraska,

(00:15:43):

finished up some school.

(00:15:45):

And here I am, literally like 20 years old, finishing up community college.

(00:15:50):

When was the last time you saw her?

(00:15:52):

Or been in communication with her?

(00:15:54):

Like, was it a long-distance thing at that point?

(00:15:55):

Or just... Oh, yeah.

(00:15:56):

So they had been in Virginia for a while, and I had been in Nebraska and stuff.

(00:15:59):

And so...

(00:16:00):

But you’re still in contact.

(00:16:01):

Still in contact.

(00:16:02):

I was driving out there and seeing her and her family.

(00:16:05):

I flew out there at least once.

(00:16:10):

And anyways, I...

(00:16:13):

Up to this point, we’ve been together, quote unquote, for like since I was 12.

(00:16:19):

And we’re not an official relationship because we don’t really believe in that.

(00:16:22):

We kissed dating goodbye.

(00:16:23):

Okay.

(00:16:24):

Chris.

(00:16:25):

As I did as well.

(00:16:26):

And this is even technically a sanctioned like courtship,

(00:16:29):

but it’s just like this thing that Meg and I joke about it.

(00:16:32):

You’re saving yourself for marriage that may never happen because you can’t tell

(00:16:35):

somebody you like them.

(00:16:36):

So, I mean, it’s like pluses and minuses.

(00:16:39):

I mean, the plus, I guess, is that like

(00:16:42):

Because it was so unofficial and restricted, we don’t really have any regrets, I guess.

(00:16:48):

We never did anything, but we also didn’t really get to know each other.

(00:16:51):

So when her dad finally said,

(00:16:53):

hey,

(00:16:54):

don’t bother coming out here again,

(00:16:55):

because I was planning one last trip to see if we could make this work,

(00:16:59):

and he was like,

(00:17:00):

the thing he said was,

(00:17:01):

save the gas,

(00:17:02):

save the gas.

(00:17:04):

And I actually received it pretty well.

(00:17:06):

At that point, I had kind of gotten to the point where I’m like,

(00:17:09):

I don’t know if this is the right way.

(00:17:12):

I didn’t really know her.

(00:17:13):

I felt like we had been so...

(00:17:17):

Isolated from one another and we’d grown into different people.

(00:17:21):

It turns out she liked horses more than she liked people and she was living out in

(00:17:26):

the country and she ended up marrying this country doctor widower guy that was like

(00:17:31):

her dad’s age.

(00:17:32):

Really into horses.

(00:17:33):

Yeah,

(00:17:34):

they have horses I think and it’s a whole different lifestyle and I was this

(00:17:38):

graphic designer in the big city of Omaha and so it never would have worked.

(00:17:42):

Absolutely.

(00:17:43):

City folk just don’t understand them bumpkins us Nebraskans

(00:17:48):

Yeah,

(00:17:49):

but I mean,

(00:17:49):

like,

(00:17:50):

on the more spiritual side of it all,

(00:17:52):

now,

(00:17:53):

you’ll probably laugh at this,

(00:17:54):

but I listened to a Mark Driscoll sermon when I was driving back.

(00:17:58):

At the time, that was a good thing to do, but now we know better.

(00:18:02):

Well, it’s funny, because I wasn’t going to, like, an Acts 29 church or anything.

(00:18:06):

I was going to a really conservative,

(00:18:07):

like,

(00:18:07):

Presbyterian church,

(00:18:08):

and so listening to Mark Driscoll was edgy.

(00:18:09):

You didn’t get yelled at a lot.

(00:18:10):

Yeah, you didn’t get yelled at a lot yet.

(00:18:11):

I needed to.

(00:18:12):

So, like, I actually really, it was, like, a guilty pleasure listening to Mark Driscoll.

(00:18:15):

Oh, I’m sure.

(00:18:16):

But he basically was saying— That’s what he was going for, I think.

(00:18:18):

Oh yeah, for sure.

(00:18:19):

I mean, that Song of Solomon sermon series was...

(00:18:22):

I listened to all of that.

(00:18:24):

I learned a lot.

(00:18:26):

Didn’t we all?

(00:18:28):

Us kids at Kiss Dating Goodbye, now we have a pastor writing a book about anal sex.

(00:18:32):

Yeah, there you go.

(00:18:33):

So anyways,

(00:18:34):

when I was driving back from her family’s property in Virginia for the last time,

(00:18:40):

what ended up being the last time,

(00:18:44):

I turned on this sermon,

(00:18:46):

and he was just talking about...

(00:18:48):

Basically not making an idol out of things and being able to...

(00:18:51):

You know it’s not an idol in your life if you can go either way.

(00:18:54):

No matter what the decision is, you’re happy to go either way.

(00:18:59):

I did start really thinking about that and praying about that and being like, I need to...

(00:19:04):

It’s at a point right now where if this falls apart, I’m devastated.

(00:19:08):

I was like, this is ridiculous.

(00:19:09):

I don’t even know this person.

(00:19:11):

I had to let go of her.

(00:19:12):

When that call came, I was able to...

(00:19:16):

Yeah, I didn’t even shed a tear.

(00:19:17):

It was just like, alright, this is confirmation.

(00:19:19):

Move on.

(00:19:20):

And at that same time,

(00:19:23):

the woman I’m currently married to,

(00:19:25):

I already knew her and was getting to know her family.

(00:19:29):

So it was kind of like, a lot of people looked like a really quick

(00:19:32):

uh you know kind of what do you call that a rebound yeah relationship but really

(00:19:36):

like I had known her for many years as like a friend and was a part of her church

(00:19:42):

and a lot of stuff like that and so it looked like a quick rebound but really like

(00:19:46):

it wasn’t you know but I mean it sounds like you Meg your wife and this other this

(00:19:54):

horse horse gal sounds

(00:19:55):

It sounds like you’re basically like at the same you knew that as much about both

(00:19:58):

of them like the same about both of them yeah basically I feel like it wasn’t that

(00:20:02):

different the way you describe it at least think about this like in this like kind

(00:20:06):

of like ultra kind of conservative more restrictive you know whatever purity

(00:20:12):

culture buzzwords kind of culture um I love purity culture that’s that’s the name

(00:20:18):

of this podcast you seem like the type

(00:20:21):

You got all this cherub face energy Yeah It worked for me Mr.

(00:20:26):

Crud I like know Josh Harris now and I know he’s rejected it all but it’s like dude

(00:20:31):

it worked for me thanks for the book

(00:20:34):

Can you get him on the path?

(00:20:35):

So this is, we need to get Josh Harris and your dad.

(00:20:37):

That’s why you brought me here to, you gave me a couple drinks.

(00:20:40):

So part three, you’ve met Josh Harris and you’re willing to introduce him to me.

(00:20:44):

Yeah, that’d probably be a more interesting podcast.

(00:20:46):

But no, so basically like- You only guessed one.

(00:20:49):

When you’re not,

(00:20:49):

and I even think about this now,

(00:20:51):

like with my own kids as they get to that age,

(00:20:53):

like trying to just stay-

(00:20:56):

By C.S.

(00:20:56):

Beaty

(00:21:20):

I knew Megan as just like a girl that went to church and she was like hanging out

(00:21:23):

in groups and she was a friend I was not interested in her that way at all because

(00:21:26):

to be honest I thought one of my best friends was going to probably marry her

(00:21:29):

because he was kind of crazy about her and so and then came Ben and then yeah and

(00:21:34):

then he he found someone else and things fell apart with this other girl and it all

(00:21:38):

just kind of worked out but but I had all that time to just kind of see her as a

(00:21:42):

person you know and so then when you know

(00:21:45):

The romance could happen.

(00:21:48):

It just happened.

(00:21:49):

Did you feel like you were allowed to have romance, though?

(00:21:51):

Or even just be interested in someone?

(00:21:54):

I definitely felt like I could be interested because it was a very public,

(00:21:58):

unofficial relationship.

(00:22:01):

It was weird.

(00:22:02):

Exclusive, in a sense.

(00:22:03):

It was.

(00:22:04):

Everyone knew about it.

(00:22:05):

It was so understood.

(00:22:07):

Everyone knew we were an item, but it was unofficial.

(00:22:10):

So that’s the tricky part.

(00:22:11):

I don’t know what to really do with that.

(00:22:14):

Everyone was so afraid to put a label on it because they felt like,

(00:22:18):

well,

(00:22:18):

if you put a label on it,

(00:22:19):

then it’s official,

(00:22:20):

you’re getting married.

(00:22:21):

There was no real

(00:22:23):

We didn’t know what to do in that culture.

(00:22:26):

We didn’t know what to do with a relationship that wasn’t basically engagement or marriage.

(00:22:34):

And so he felt kind of betrothed, I guess.

(00:22:37):

Kind of like the old Jewish betrothal kind of feeling, I guess.

(00:22:42):

Where it’s kind of like, someday I’m going to marry so-and-so.

(00:22:45):

But until that time, enjoy your blue balls.

(00:22:47):

Exactly.

(00:22:48):

So that’s basically where I was.

(00:22:49):

All right, next part.

(00:22:52):

Yeah.

(00:22:53):

I feel like we could do a whole podcast episode on this because I can’t help but

(00:22:58):

put your experience on top of mine and compare and contrast because in some sense I

(00:23:03):

can totally identify with everything but I felt I was afraid to even talk to a girl

(00:23:08):

so that whole idea of being even it being understood that you knew somebody that

(00:23:12):

was exclusive even though if it wasn’t a label even that to me it wasn’t even so it

(00:23:20):

wasn’t allowed I was just terrified of it

(00:23:22):

By C.S.

(00:23:22):

Beaty

(00:23:46):

I don’t think I could come back from it.

(00:23:48):

I had such a fear of that.

(00:23:50):

We had no category for asking girls out.

(00:23:52):

That’s true.

(00:23:54):

I know what you mean though.

(00:23:55):

I’m trying to think back.

(00:23:58):

I did have a lot of friends that were girls.

(00:24:03):

I had a lot of...

(00:24:04):

I think because no one was dating, no one was even really courting or anything.

(00:24:09):

My older brother...

(00:24:11):

The first courtship I ever heard of courted my best friend’s big sister and they were married.

(00:24:20):

They were both 19.

(00:24:21):

They were both married.

(00:24:22):

They’re still married.

(00:24:23):

They’ve got six kids.

(00:24:24):

They live in the Seattle area.

(00:24:30):

Because there was no real official thing unless you’re ready to get married.

(00:24:35):

We would say things like

(00:24:38):

Don’t shop until you’re ready to buy.

(00:24:39):

Don’t stir up love before it pleases.

(00:24:41):

I think that’s from Song of Solomon.

(00:24:43):

That was kind of the mindset.

(00:24:44):

It’s been a while since I’ve listened to that sermon series.

(00:24:47):

Mark Driscoll, he’s been cancelled a few times since then.

(00:24:51):

He’s still going strong.

(00:24:53):

Yeah, which one?

(00:24:56):

But anyway, can you even find that old stuff?

(00:24:58):

Does it exist somewhere?

(00:24:59):

I’m sure somebody has it somewhere.

(00:25:00):

Some creepy guy’s got that in his basement.

(00:25:02):

Probably down here somewhere.

(00:25:03):

Oh, I’ve got it all, yeah.

(00:25:04):

You’ve got it all?

(00:25:05):

I bet I have it on an iPod still.

(00:25:07):

Yeah, no kidding.

(00:25:08):

But yeah, basically, I don’t know.

(00:25:12):

Because there wasn’t really any real relationship status you could kind of hope

(00:25:17):

for,

(00:25:17):

it was all very...

(00:25:20):

I don’t know.

(00:25:20):

We could just kind of be friends, too, and it was kind of cool.

(00:25:23):

Except for,

(00:25:24):

I mean,

(00:25:24):

I don’t know,

(00:25:24):

for me and that other girl,

(00:25:26):

we just kind of thought,

(00:25:29):

without expressing it to one another,

(00:25:31):

that someday we’d be married.

(00:25:32):

I don’t know.

(00:25:33):

But the culture or the community kind of reinforces some of those things, too.

(00:25:37):

Oh, for sure.

(00:25:37):

You know what I mean?

(00:25:38):

Absolutely.

(00:25:39):

I look back on it and it’s like why did I fall so head over heels for her and part

(00:25:44):

of it was because I overheard other people talking about us and it made me feel

(00:25:47):

good it’d be like oh man you see those two what a cute couple and someday and you

(00:25:52):

know we were both into music and that can also help she wrote songs I wrote songs

(00:25:57):

and that just like it kind of just fit this storybook image you know in my head and

(00:26:04):

so I don’t know like I said purity culture worked great for me um

(00:26:10):

That’s the name of my book.

(00:26:11):

Our next guest would just talk to myself and read my own book out loud.

(00:26:16):

Actually, just listen to my audio book and you can hear my take on that or my response.

(00:26:24):

Next question.

(00:26:24):

Okay, next question.

(00:26:25):

We’re 25 minutes in.

(00:26:27):

We’ve covered the Vietnam War.

(00:26:29):

We’re doing this podcast.

(00:26:31):

All right, so I put at some point got married to someone else.

(00:26:35):

So you skipped ahead a little bit.

(00:26:37):

Meg.

(00:26:37):

Meg.

(00:26:38):

Who is now the mother of a lot of kids.

(00:26:41):

Too many to count.

(00:26:42):

Yeah, we’ve got five kiddos.

(00:26:44):

Rounding up to ten.

(00:26:45):

That’s right.

(00:26:45):

And we have been married for 16 years as of last week.

(00:26:50):

So, yeah, it’s going great.

(00:26:53):

It’s awesome.

(00:26:54):

That is great.

(00:26:54):

That is great to hear.

(00:26:56):

And I don’t believe you.

(00:26:58):

You mentioned this a little bit.

(00:27:01):

So you’re a designer.

(00:27:03):

That’s right.

(00:27:04):

Graphic designer, branding designer.

(00:27:07):

So you started doing that.

(00:27:09):

Was it Metro Community College?

(00:27:10):

Did the program there?

(00:27:12):

How did this all come about?

(00:27:13):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:27:14):

So that...

(00:27:15):

Good question, Chris.

(00:27:17):

Thank you.

(00:27:17):

I’ve been told I’m good at this.

(00:27:19):

You are good at this.

(00:27:19):

Wow.

(00:27:20):

I feel so seen and heard by you.

(00:27:23):

I’m not listening, but I can see you.

(00:27:26):

I was homeschooled all the way through.

(00:27:29):

Well, all the way until I started going to college early.

(00:27:32):

So that’s kind of the thing with homeschoolers,

(00:27:34):

the really smart ones,

(00:27:36):

or the ones whose parents run out of patience and things for them to do at home.

(00:27:40):

When they’re about 15 or 16 they’ll like get early enrollment into a community

(00:27:44):

college or take the GED I actually took the GED when I was 16 and started going to

(00:27:50):

take various classes at various community colleges in Hawaii so there was one

(00:27:56):

called Windward Community College on the Windward side of Oahu

(00:28:01):

The main one was Leeward Community College on the Leeward side of the island.

(00:28:05):

They are so good at naming.

(00:28:07):

It’s kind of lame.

(00:28:09):

But it’s funny.

(00:28:10):

I was training to be a classical pianist.

(00:28:15):

I need to pronounce that better.

(00:28:19):

What is a classical pianist?

(00:28:22):

Pianist.

(00:28:23):

Pianist.

(00:28:23):

I think I said that right.

(00:28:26):

And I was convinced that I was, yeah, music was where it was at.

(00:28:30):

And so I started just taking electives of like ear training,

(00:28:35):

of theory,

(00:28:36):

music theory,

(00:28:38):

some classical guitar.

(00:28:40):

Lots of just music-related classes.

(00:28:43):

And I just fell into, accidentally fell into the world of graphic design.

(00:28:49):

My dad’s a military guy.

(00:28:51):

Everyone I knew was basically a military guy or worked on garage doors.

(00:28:54):

There was no category.

(00:28:57):

I was creative.

(00:28:58):

I always liked to draw.

(00:28:59):

I didn’t know there were so many garages in Hawaii.

(00:29:03):

More than you might think.

(00:29:04):

I didn’t have one, but some rich people have them, I guess.

(00:29:08):

But

(00:29:09):

I had no category.

(00:29:10):

I didn’t even think about how everything that you see.

(00:29:13):

I’m looking down and seeing all of these.

(00:29:15):

If only we had a video.

(00:29:16):

Yeah, if only we had a video.

(00:29:17):

All of these coasters in front of me and cool bottle designs you have up in your

(00:29:25):

beautiful bar here.

(00:29:27):

I never even thought that someone had to design all this stuff.

(00:29:29):

Someone had to draw all this stuff.

(00:29:32):

And...

(00:29:33):

I stumbled into it.

(00:29:34):

Literally,

(00:29:36):

this gal at my church asked me,

(00:29:39):

she said,

(00:29:40):

hey,

(00:29:40):

do you know anybody in the University of Hawaii school system that has an artistic

(00:29:48):

eye?

(00:29:48):

That’s what she said.

(00:29:49):

And I was like, well, that’s a very specific question.

(00:29:51):

It’s a weird way of asking that.

(00:29:53):

An artistic eye.

(00:29:55):

I know somebody has an astigmatism.

(00:30:10):

They were working for this research division of the University of Hawaii called the

(00:30:15):

Hawaii Coral Reef Initiative.

(00:30:18):

Not made up, but basically they helped raise money for scientists studying the coral reef.

(00:30:24):

And they needed someone to help them with publications about coral reef health.

(00:30:30):

How do we make this not boring?

(00:30:32):

Yeah, exactly.

(00:30:33):

And so she’s like,

(00:30:34):

do you know anybody in the University of Hawaii system who has an artistic eye?

(00:30:38):

That’s how she’s

(00:30:39):

I’ll let you know if someone comes to mind and then it was like literally three

(00:30:43):

days later I go wait a second

(00:30:46):

I go to Leeward Community College,

(00:30:49):

which is technically a part of the University of Hawaii system.

(00:30:53):

It’s not the University of Hawaii main campus, but it’s all part of the same system.

(00:30:58):

And I have an artistic eye.

(00:31:00):

Now,

(00:31:00):

if she had said,

(00:31:01):

who is a graphic designer or knows how to use Photoshop or something like that,

(00:31:05):

I would have no clue because I was not aware of that profession.

(00:31:09):

I’d never used an Adobe product like Photoshop or Illustrator, anything like that.

(00:31:14):

But she said artistic eye and I loved at that time I was doing a lot of drawing

(00:31:18):

caricatures of my friends so I just drew a lot for fun in between music classes and

(00:31:23):

stuff and piano lessons and things that I thought were like what I was going to do

(00:31:27):

and so a few days later I like reached out and I’m like I think that’s me

(00:31:33):

And so I go down to my first and one of my only job interviews ever,

(00:31:37):

which wasn’t really a job interview.

(00:31:38):

They just gave me the job because it was a student help job.

(00:31:42):

You didn’t get paid.

(00:31:44):

Barely.

(00:31:44):

It was a very small amount of pay, very few hours a week.

(00:31:49):

And they paid for me to learn all of the programs.

(00:31:54):

I took a non-credit Photoshop class,

(00:31:56):

a non-credit Illustrator class,

(00:31:58):

a non-credit,

(00:32:00):

it was before InDesign,

(00:32:02):

it was called PageMaker,

(00:32:03):

Adobe PageMaker.

(00:32:05):

And I got introduced to this crazy world that everything we see

(00:32:10):

is like designed and made and people will pay for you to do this stuff and logos

(00:32:15):

and it was like overwhelming because like I did have this artistic eye and so

(00:32:21):

immediately I just started shifting all of my studies towards the visual arts and I

(00:32:29):

also happened to run into this like retired Disney animator who was living in

(00:32:33):

Hawaii and

(00:32:34):

And teaching He’s the guy His name is Dan Boulos If you’re listening Dan Dan Boulos

(00:32:40):

Dan Boulos Look him up I need another podcast guest Dan Boulos Seriously I should

(00:32:44):

reach out to him He’s still around I think he still lives in Hawaii But if you look

(00:32:48):

him up He is the one that animated the wolves In Beauty and the Beast I think he

(00:32:53):

animated

(00:32:54):

Mrs.

(00:32:55):

Potts and Chip because everyone animates a different thing he animated at that time

(00:33:01):

the animation you actually had to draw it sell animation by him and he also

(00:33:07):

animated I think Flounder from Little Mermaid then he also did some stuff with

(00:33:12):

Quest for Camelot not Disney so he was this old school animator but he was teaching

(00:33:18):

some of the graphic design and animation classes in Hawaii at the community college

(00:33:23):

And it just opened me up to this whole world.

(00:33:26):

So at first I thought I’d be a storyboard artist for like Pixar or something.

(00:33:31):

But then I just, I kind of went all in on this Hawaii coral reef initiative.

(00:33:35):

And I ended up working there seven years.

(00:33:36):

Even after I graduated, I kept the job.

(00:33:39):

Even when I moved to Omaha and I married Meg, I kept that job.

(00:33:44):

That’s what I bought my first house on was this job.

(00:33:46):

No coral reefs in Omaha, by the way.

(00:33:49):

Yeah, no coral reefs here.

(00:33:51):

But I was literally,

(00:33:53):

when I was first married,

(00:33:55):

living here,

(00:33:55):

I was working full time for the Hawaii Coral Reef Initiative and I was doing remote

(00:34:01):

work from my basement way before it was cool.

(00:34:04):

In 2010,

(00:34:05):

2011,

(00:34:07):

working for this organization in Hawaii,

(00:34:10):

drawing pictures of fish all day and doing publication design and layout.

(00:34:16):

It was insane.

(00:34:17):

So what would they do with your fish?

(00:34:19):

Okay,

(00:34:20):

so the big thing that we did,

(00:34:21):

we did a few things,

(00:34:22):

but the big thing that we did was we created this really cool interactive public

(00:34:29):

school science curriculum for Hawaii public schools called Reef Pulse Hawaii,

(00:34:34):

where it ended up being a thousand-page curriculum with full-color illustrations

(00:34:39):

that I did.

(00:34:40):

So no kids reading that.

(00:34:42):

Yeah, exactly.

(00:34:43):

Seven years wasted.

(00:34:45):

I don’t know if this was ever used, to be honest.

(00:34:47):

It’s like a seven year project.

(00:34:49):

I kid you not.

(00:34:50):

But the interesting part was it was so tailored to my skills that there was also

(00:34:58):

this whole science song component and I wrote and recorded

(00:35:04):

like I think 30 science songs wow for kids it’s a part of the school bus yeah it’s

(00:35:10):

like that and it was I got to explore all these different styles of music I mean

(00:35:14):

some of it’s better than others other parts of it you know it’s rough around the

(00:35:17):

edges but it’s just funny because I had this like little mini career where I had to

(00:35:21):

learn publication design I had to learn illustration I had to learn music recording

(00:35:26):

you’d think I’d be better at recording podcasts and stuff

(00:35:31):

But yeah, it was like so weird.

(00:35:35):

Like I got to do all this stuff.

(00:35:36):

And the other crazy part about it too is my younger brother Abe,

(00:35:41):

he worked for them as well doing web design and video stuff and animation.

(00:35:44):

And so him and I were like,

(00:35:47):

Before I married Meg,

(00:35:48):

we were living together and going to school here in Omaha and both working for the

(00:35:52):

Hawaii Coral Reef Initiative and doing all this crazy stuff together,

(00:35:56):

making flash websites and even storyboards for animated science videos.

(00:36:03):

It was wild.

(00:36:04):

At 17, 18, 19 years old.

(00:36:07):

It was wild.

(00:36:07):

So that was your full-time job?

(00:36:09):

It turned into a full-time job.

(00:36:10):

It started part-time, turned into a full-time job with benefits.

(00:36:15):

I feel like that happens to every artist.

(00:36:23):

Now I’m back there.

(00:36:24):

Now I do this again.

(00:36:25):

Way to bury the lead.

(00:36:27):

That was my funny part at the end.

(00:36:29):

I’m going to read the last bullet here.

(00:36:32):

And now you’re living in your parents’ basement and talking to me as the very first

(00:36:36):

guest on a podcast that didn’t exist until this very interview.

(00:36:40):

that was that was the return home part of the hero’s journey but we skipped all the

(00:36:44):

good parts all the good parts yeah well it is funny because like yeah I literally

(00:36:48):

yeah as Chris just uh gave away I go by C.S.

(00:36:52):

Beaty we C.S.

(00:36:54):

Beaty uh just gave away um B.A.

(00:36:58):

Looters over here um

(00:37:05):

We sold our Benson home and we’re looking for a house and living with my parents.

(00:37:09):

So I am living in my parents’ basement and running my design studio out of my

(00:37:15):

parents’ basement at the moment.

(00:37:17):

Hopefully not forever.

(00:37:18):

I wish I was in your basement.

(00:37:19):

Look how cool this is.

(00:37:20):

My basement is way better than your parents’ basement.

(00:37:24):

I should move in.

(00:37:25):

If you take one of my three kids and have the basement.

(00:37:28):

I promise I won’t.

(00:37:29):

I will take that trade.

(00:37:30):

Well, your kids are probably better than mine.

(00:37:32):

I could probably I’d probably bring one of them I’ve got a lot of kids I don’t know

(00:37:35):

I wouldn’t even notice you probably wouldn’t even notice so alright so let’s fill

(00:37:39):

in these gaps here so how did you end up in Omaha yeah yeah okay so this is

(00:37:44):

actually so somewhat easy so I again was going to community college in Hawaii

(00:37:49):

switching from music to design related stuff I have this part time job but I’m

(00:37:54):

still living at home I’m living with my parents I’m 18 and I turn 19 I’m like this

(00:37:59):

is getting crazy I need to move out

(00:38:01):

But Hawaii is the most expensive place to move in.

(00:38:04):

And so I’m looking at places that I could move in with maybe, I don’t know, six of my friends.

(00:38:08):

It’s like, okay, we’re going to have to split this a lot of different ways.

(00:38:12):

But a lot of them were going off to college in the mainland, as we call it.

(00:38:17):

And I was just realizing, oh man, this is going to be super expensive.

(00:38:21):

And that’s when my younger brother,

(00:38:23):

Abe,

(00:38:23):

who was really young,

(00:38:26):

because he’s homeschooled,

(00:38:26):

was going to community college since he was 14.

(00:38:28):

He was like,

(00:38:31):

Ben,

(00:38:32):

we get in-state tuition,

(00:38:33):

apparently,

(00:38:34):

this is true,

(00:38:35):

you get in-state tuition when you’re a military dependent,

(00:38:38):

and we word military dependents,

(00:38:40):

Where your parent in the military is stationed,

(00:38:46):

and I guess where they’re from,

(00:38:47):

like where their home base is,

(00:38:48):

I don’t understand,

(00:38:50):

which is technically Omaha.

(00:38:51):

So I would get in-state tuition in Hawaii,

(00:38:53):

where my dad was stationed,

(00:38:55):

or I would get in-state tuition in Omaha,

(00:38:57):

where my dad is from,

(00:38:58):

I guess.

(00:38:59):

And it was like, well, you look at out-of-state tuition, that was really expensive anywhere, and

(00:39:05):

But I was like, wow, I could move out in Omaha.

(00:39:07):

We started looking at prices of, like, apartments in Elkhorn, Nebraska, and stuff like that.

(00:39:12):

I’m like, you can buy three of these.

(00:39:13):

Dang, yeah, like, wow, I could do this.

(00:39:17):

I could pay half of this apartment, right?

(00:39:19):

So it just, like,

(00:39:21):

I was just like,

(00:39:21):

wow,

(00:39:22):

I’ll just go there,

(00:39:23):

finish up some school,

(00:39:24):

and then I’m sure I’ll move on to the East Coast,

(00:39:27):

the West Coast,

(00:39:28):

somewhere cool,

(00:39:29):

whatever.

(00:39:30):

I’ll be rich and famous.

(00:39:31):

I’ll figure it out.

(00:39:32):

Never thought I would stay here for very long.

(00:39:34):

It was like, this is where my grandparents were because my parents were from here.

(00:39:37):

But I was like, there’s no way I’m going to stay here for very long.

(00:39:40):

I’m going to finish up some school because it’s cheaper, and that’s it.

(00:39:45):

That’s not what happened.

(00:39:45):

But yeah, that’s what I thought.

(00:39:47):

No, we already covered that part.

(00:39:48):

No, we didn’t.

(00:39:50):

I don’t know where we’re at in this interview at this point.

(00:39:51):

Well,

(00:39:52):

basically,

(00:39:52):

I’m in Omaha,

(00:39:54):

and at the same time,

(00:39:56):

this girl that I thought I was going to marry,

(00:39:57):

her family relocates to Virginia,

(00:39:59):

and that’s where I keep on driving from Omaha,

(00:40:01):

Virginia,

(00:40:03):

trying to make this thing work.

(00:40:05):

It falls apart, and at the same time,

(00:40:08):

Megan is like and her family is a part of my life here in Omaha and it just it

(00:40:13):

moved pretty fast once everything fell apart the other girl it was like became

(00:40:16):

really clear oh dang

(00:40:18):

Why am I trying to marry this girl when I can marry this girl?

(00:40:21):

And so we were married pretty quickly after that.

(00:40:25):

So you met Meg through church?

(00:40:27):

Yeah.

(00:40:28):

She went to my church.

(00:40:28):

We were going to this small conservative Presbyterian church called Dominion

(00:40:34):

Covenant Church that still exists.

(00:40:37):

And my best friend was the pastor’s son, oldest son.

(00:40:41):

And he really liked Megan So I didn’t actually know her that well But he talked

(00:40:46):

about her all the time But he ended up moving away I could do a way better job with

(00:40:49):

her He moved away,

(00:40:50):

fell in love with someone else And I was in his wedding And realizing,

(00:40:55):

oh,

(00:40:55):

no one’s marrying Megan She’s available So I ended up marrying her She was super

(00:41:01):

cool It is funny I think you probably have this You have your heart so set on

(00:41:09):

something And then

(00:41:12):

You see what you should be attracted to or interested in or what’s actually compatible.

(00:41:24):

Meg and I are really well matched.

(00:41:26):

We’re totally opposites.

(00:41:28):

Totally opposites.

(00:41:30):

I’m an extrovert.

(00:41:30):

She’s an introvert.

(00:41:32):

She’s fiercely loyal.

(00:41:37):

I don’t know if you believe in the Enneagram.

(00:41:38):

That’s a big

(00:41:45):

I’m a big seven adventurer,

(00:41:48):

and she’s a one perfectionist kind of person,

(00:41:52):

if you believe in that sort of thing.

(00:41:53):

I hear some people do.

(00:41:55):

Yeah, some people do.

(00:41:56):

It’s fine.

(00:41:57):

I have conflicted feelings.

(00:41:59):

But anyways, we’re really different than one another, but it just kind of works.

(00:42:05):

Yeah.

(00:42:08):

Does the Enneagram think that you’re supposed to work?

(00:42:11):

That’s a good question.

(00:42:11):

I think it does.

(00:42:12):

I think opposites are supposed to attract.

(00:42:14):

When I think of the Enneagram,

(00:42:15):

I think of those placemats at Chinese restaurants that tell you the Chinese zodiac,

(00:42:18):

and it’s like,

(00:42:19):

if you’re a horse,

(00:42:20):

never marry a rat.

(00:42:23):

Which the real reason is because there’s an 18-year age gap,

(00:42:26):

and that’s probably not going to work

(00:42:27):

Maybe they’re on to something.

(00:42:30):

We do have a large age gap.

(00:42:31):

I will say that.

(00:42:34):

I’m very immature for my age and she’s very mature for age.

(00:42:38):

We meet in the middle.

(00:42:40):

Which leads me to the next part.

(00:42:41):

You started an app to sell flowers.

(00:42:44):

My gosh, Chris.

(00:42:45):

You’ve done your research.

(00:42:47):

I was friends with you when you did that.

(00:42:50):

That’s true.

(00:42:51):

I forgot about that.

(00:42:52):

So did everyone else.

(00:42:54):

I feel like I’m on Hot Ones right now.

(00:42:57):

I need some more of this it’s really good no it’s fine we’re just drinking like

(00:43:04):

sailors over here those of you on the video broadcast that’s right well I answer

(00:43:10):

this question Chris is like heading over to the bar but yeah so a couple friends

(00:43:15):

from church oh my gosh we’re getting straight bourbon here on the rocks okay

(00:43:22):

Anyways,

(00:43:23):

a couple friends from church,

(00:43:24):

they had this idea for a flower delivery app that we ended up calling Zinnia.

(00:43:31):

Basically, I was just starting my design company, Fruitful, at the time.

(00:43:37):

They were like, hey,

(00:43:39):

Maybe if we give Ben like part ownership in this thing,

(00:43:42):

he’ll do a bunch of design work for us on the cheap.

(00:43:46):

So I did get to like really do a lot of like UI, UX design for apps and homepage.

(00:43:54):

Ultimately, it ended up not really amounting to a whole lot.

(00:43:57):

But we did, you know, we got into like an accelerator or whatever you call that.

(00:44:02):

We raised some money.

(00:44:03):

I remember when that happened because I remember being told to pray for you.

(00:44:06):

You probably should have prayed some more.

(00:44:12):

It’s your fault.

(00:44:13):

Blame it on me.

(00:44:13):

I did buy flowers from you, though.

(00:44:15):

I thought that might actually help.

(00:44:16):

Well, we did end up selling.

(00:44:18):

We did sell to a florist in town.

(00:44:20):

I think Janusek Florist still has the site.

(00:44:22):

I think it still exists.

(00:44:24):

It’s kind of an old Squarespace site.

(00:44:26):

Could probably use an update.

(00:44:28):

But it ended up just being a lot smaller.

(00:44:31):

The original concept of it, Chris, was more of like...

(00:44:36):

It’s going to sound cliche.

(00:44:38):

More of like the Airbnb for florists,

(00:44:41):

where basically florists would be able to have an account and be able to sell their

(00:44:47):

flowers on this marketplace like Airbnb.

(00:44:51):

That was the idea initially.

(00:44:52):

But basically, we went through that accelerator.

(00:44:54):

They’re like, this is, oh, you pulled it up.

(00:44:56):

Yeah, no, it’s still there.

(00:44:57):

GoZidia.com.

(00:44:58):

I bought flowers from it.

(00:44:59):

It still exists.

(00:44:59):

It’s got your logo on it.

(00:45:01):

You made this logo, right?

(00:45:01):

Yeah, I made that logo.

(00:45:02):

Yeah, actually, Aaron Pilly and I did that.

(00:45:04):

I think Aaron really did the lettering on that.

(00:45:07):

Seems like your style.

(00:45:08):

GoZinnia.com to send flowers in Omaha.

(00:45:12):

If you’re in Omaha.

(00:45:13):

Only if you’re in Omaha.

(00:45:15):

And they come in a burlap sack.

(00:45:16):

Yeah,

(00:45:17):

basically the final version of Zinnia,

(00:45:19):

it went far away from the marketplace and it just became like,

(00:45:23):

hey,

(00:45:23):

if you order from,

(00:45:24):

you can order these set like bouquets from Zinnia,

(00:45:27):

GoZinnia.com and Janusek Florist will make them and drive them out and deliver

(00:45:32):

them.

(00:45:32):

And they’re all named after your wives.

(00:45:34):

Yeah, they were like all named after the wives of the founders.

(00:45:39):

Is there actually a Meg?

(00:45:40):

I can’t even remember.

(00:45:41):

Yeah,

(00:45:41):

I don’t remember what the arrangement was,

(00:45:43):

but I remember they’re all,

(00:45:43):

like,

(00:45:43):

how’d they come up with these?

(00:45:45):

Oh, yeah, it’s their wives’ names.

(00:45:46):

Yeah, it’s kind of creepy, isn’t it?

(00:45:48):

Yeah, everyone knows our wives.

(00:45:49):

I’ve done buying those Megan flowers.

(00:45:50):

The Megan flowers.

(00:45:53):

Gross.

(00:45:54):

Oh, man.

(00:45:55):

Canceled.

(00:45:57):

Canceled before even, we didn’t even release the first podcast, and it’s already been canceled.

(00:46:01):

That’s so funny.

(00:46:02):

I kind of, like,

(00:46:04):

yeah I’ve forgotten that I learned a lot of stuff during that that phase it was

(00:46:08):

kind of kind of crazy because like yeah a couple of his friends you know Nathan and

(00:46:13):

Andy who were kind of doing that they they put a lot on the line both of them kind

(00:46:17):

of left their main jobs for a minute and tried it out and you didn’t you’re I

(00:46:22):

didn’t no no no I’m not that dumb yeah they gave me 10% of the company but like

(00:46:28):

Because there were some investors when we went through that accelerator.

(00:46:31):

Janice Tech Forest did pay us.

(00:46:34):

They paid us to purchase the name and the website and everything.

(00:46:38):

But because we owed all this money to these investors, I think I made like $36.

(00:46:43):

Or like $64.

(00:46:44):

I think that’s my exact royalties on my book so far.

(00:46:47):

Yeah, that’s right.

(00:46:48):

That’s like my royalties on my book.

(00:46:50):

But like, yeah, it was like under $100 for sure was my payout.

(00:46:55):

But I guess it’s better than owing something.

(00:46:59):

I bought a lot of flyers.

(00:47:00):

I still do every once in a while.

(00:47:02):

Now I’m a big fan of the Trader Joe’s bouquets.

(00:47:07):

That’s what my wife likes.

(00:47:08):

That’s what the real Megan likes, is buying Trader Joe’s bouquets.

(00:47:11):

Yeah, so I switched to that because...

(00:47:14):

It’s just easier.

(00:47:16):

Yeah.

(00:47:17):

But I did buy a lot.

(00:47:18):

Actually, I don’t know if you knew this or not.

(00:47:20):

Technically, I don’t know how technical it was.

(00:47:22):

Our wedding was done by Zinnia.

(00:47:25):

What?

(00:47:26):

Yeah.

(00:47:27):

I did not remember this.

(00:47:28):

Yeah.

(00:47:29):

So Andy’s wife.

(00:47:31):

Yeah.

(00:47:32):

Which floral arrangement is she?

(00:47:34):

Let me see.

(00:47:37):

I’ve had too many drinks.

(00:47:38):

You’ve had any?

(00:47:41):

Unless you’re counting your Yeti full of wine over there.

(00:47:44):

Yeah.

(00:47:46):

I don’t remember Andy Holtz’s wife’s name.

(00:47:50):

Why am I totally blind?

(00:47:51):

I don’t know.

(00:47:52):

She’s a great woman.

(00:47:52):

I’m sure she still is.

(00:47:53):

You have to delete this out.

(00:47:54):

Yeah.

(00:47:54):

I’m sure she still is.

(00:47:55):

But she was our... Katie.

(00:47:57):

Katie.

(00:47:58):

Yeah, Katie Holtz.

(00:47:59):

The Katie.

(00:48:00):

Sorry, Katie, when you listen to this.

(00:48:01):

Sorry, Katie.

(00:48:02):

I was thinking about my wife so much.

(00:48:03):

Yeah.

(00:48:04):

I know you’re a big fan of this podcast, so you’re probably very upset.

(00:48:08):

So Katie was our wedding coordinator.

(00:48:12):

Oh, yeah.

(00:48:12):

Yeah.

(00:48:12):

So she was working for the church.

(00:48:14):

That was her little gig.

(00:48:16):

She would coordinate weddings.

(00:48:17):

So we got married.

(00:48:18):

And she did all the coordinating.

(00:48:21):

It’s so important.

(00:48:22):

You’ve got to have a coordinator.

(00:48:23):

I didn’t really have a coordinator.

(00:48:24):

It can really help.

(00:48:25):

I really didn’t understand what her job was until I realized all the things that we

(00:48:29):

didn’t know what we were doing.

(00:48:30):

And then we’re like, oh, okay, this is great.

(00:48:33):

And what we were telling her, we’re like, this is its own podcast episode.

(00:48:39):

So we thought we had a hookup through Paige’s dad with the flowers.

(00:48:43):

And so it was just her dad’s always done a bunch of weird

(00:48:47):

By C.S.

(00:48:47):

Beaty

(00:49:07):

But so like we’re we’re just complaining to her about how like well we thought we

(00:49:12):

had a good hookup with a wholesale flower dealer we went to this wholesale flower

(00:49:15):

and we gave the name of the account they said oh that’s not been active for a long

(00:49:19):

time we’re like well thanks thanks future father-in-law

(00:49:23):

So we’re telling Katie the story and if you’re wondering what that background noise

(00:49:27):

is my wife is now getting into the tub above the ceiling above us it’s the running

(00:49:32):

water so Katie she goes well we probably have a wholesale account you can just use

(00:49:38):

ours and we’re like

(00:49:39):

Okay, but then what do we do?

(00:49:42):

And so Katie figured out like one of the, is it Epperson?

(00:49:47):

Emily Epperson?

(00:49:48):

Yeah.

(00:49:49):

She’s another big fan of the podcast.

(00:49:50):

I gotta give her a shout out.

(00:49:52):

Gosh, all these ladies that listen.

(00:49:54):

Yeah, good memory.

(00:49:55):

Wow.

(00:49:55):

Geez, Chris, you were insane.

(00:49:57):

so she was the florist and so she was she designed a lot of those bouquets yeah so

(00:50:01):

we got so katie reached out to her because it was still very like zinni was still a

(00:50:05):

thing yeah reached out to her uh gave us a sweet deal on the uh on everything

(00:50:10):

because they wanted they didn’t know if they wanted to do weddings or not and so

(00:50:13):

like they basically just gave it to us at cost oh my goodness to promote and say we

(00:50:18):

did this wedding and so like you probably ran a lot of stuff on your website or

(00:50:22):

somebody did about my wedding and you know you were actually even there and

(00:50:27):

He had no recollection of this.

(00:50:28):

No, I did not remember.

(00:50:30):

Yeah, so it was like Paige showed me, I think, what did we use, Facebook back then?

(00:50:36):

Yeah, probably.

(00:50:37):

Zinnia Facebook.

(00:50:38):

Yeah.

(00:50:39):

Talked about our wedding and used our wedding as like advertisement of,

(00:50:42):

look at this great wedding game.

(00:50:43):

And it turned out great.

(00:50:44):

I’m going to dig this up.

(00:50:45):

I still have the dead wedding bouquet upstairs.

(00:50:47):

Do you really?

(00:50:48):

Well, I mean, doesn’t everybody keep their wedding bouquet?

(00:50:51):

I guess I don’t.

(00:50:52):

Maybe Meg has it somewhere in storage.

(00:50:55):

My goodness.

(00:50:56):

You have such a good memory.

(00:50:58):

Your marriage isn’t as strong as ours.

(00:50:59):

Apparently not.

(00:51:00):

If I had that dead bouquet, I don’t, man.

(00:51:02):

Yeah.

(00:51:02):

Well, and I actually, my one contribution to our floral arrangement was

(00:51:08):

I was in a wedding where they used silk flowers.

(00:51:10):

Like I was like a groomsman or something.

(00:51:11):

I loved it because I didn’t have to worry about destroying it.

(00:51:14):

And so I said, I want fake flowers for our, what do they call them?

(00:51:17):

Oh, the corsage.

(00:51:18):

Corsage.

(00:51:19):

Is that what it is?

(00:51:20):

Yeah.

(00:51:20):

So I said,

(00:51:20):

I want a fake flower because I said,

(00:51:22):

I don’t want to worry the whole night about,

(00:51:23):

am I going to kill this

(00:51:25):

You know, living thing, this delicate thing.

(00:51:28):

I just want to be able to pick up a kid and swing it.

(00:51:30):

You want something fake just like you.

(00:51:32):

Yes, it was a good metaphor for our marriage.

(00:51:36):

It’s like everything’s been fake up to this point.

(00:51:39):

Why stop now?

(00:51:41):

Okay, so after you started around that time, we’ve already alluded to this, you started a band.

(00:51:46):

You found a really amazing diamond in the rough to be your drummer.

(00:51:50):

You got offered a recording contract and turned it down.

(00:51:54):

That’s true.

(00:51:54):

Some of us wanted to take that deal, by the way.

(00:51:56):

Okay, so remind me of what that was.

(00:51:59):

It’s so funny.

(00:52:00):

Your memory is so much better than mine.

(00:52:02):

When I was reading that in your book and stuff, I’m like, this did happen, but did I...

(00:52:09):

It meant a lot more to him.

(00:52:10):

It meant way more to you than to me, apparently.

(00:52:14):

You were still allowed to play on church worship, so I was clinging on to anything I could.

(00:52:17):

This was it.

(00:52:18):

This was everything for you.

(00:52:19):

But what was that?

(00:52:20):

Was that through Schaefer?

(00:52:22):

Ben Schaefer.

(00:52:22):

Ben Schaefer.

(00:52:23):

Yeah.

(00:52:24):

Okay, now that...

(00:52:25):

I mean, if you phrase it like that, it sounds like a bigger deal than it was.

(00:52:29):

Right.

(00:52:29):

But it was legitimate.

(00:52:31):

Somebody offered to pay us to record a CD.

(00:52:34):

Right.

(00:52:34):

Which is, by definition, a recording contract.

(00:52:36):

That is a recording contract.

(00:52:37):

He did have a...

(00:52:38):

He literally gave you a piece of paper that we reviewed and said something about-

(00:52:42):

Did we review a paper?

(00:52:43):

You might have.

(00:52:44):

He made,

(00:52:45):

because I remember he made a comment about this is a standard deal for whatever,

(00:52:48):

whatever.

(00:52:48):

I don’t know if I ever actually saw a paper, but we, yeah, we had something.

(00:52:52):

I’m like picturing, have you seen the Muppet movie?

(00:52:55):

Well, there’s like 20 of them.

(00:52:56):

No, the original The Muppet movie.

(00:52:58):

I don’t know.

(00:52:59):

You mean The Muppet Christmas Carol?

(00:53:00):

No, no.

(00:53:01):

That’s also good.

(00:53:01):

With Gonzo as Charles Dickens?

(00:53:03):

I’ve seen that one.

(00:53:04):

The Muppet movie from like 1970, whatever.

(00:53:06):

The first one where they’re trying to go to Hollywood and break into movies.

(00:53:10):

And the very end

(00:53:11):

They come up to Orson Welles.

(00:53:13):

He’s in the studio in Hollywood.

(00:53:16):

He’s got a big beard.

(00:53:17):

You’re supposed to know who this is.

(00:53:18):

Yeah, he turns around.

(00:53:18):

It’s a cameo, and it’s like Orson Welles.

(00:53:21):

And they say, hey, we’re here to become rich and famous or whatever.

(00:53:25):

And he just stares at them like he’s going to fire them.

(00:53:28):

And then he just pushes down the intercom button for the receptionist and is like,

(00:53:33):

prepare the standard rich and famous contract for Kermit the Frog and

(00:53:41):

He was the Orson Welles in that situation.

(00:53:44):

Yeah, and you...

(00:53:45):

Turned it on down.

(00:53:47):

And you, like the Muppet that you are, didn’t understand what was going on.

(00:53:50):

I was basically Gonzo.

(00:53:51):

Yeah.

(00:53:51):

Yeah, well, it’s so funny.

(00:53:52):

So,

(00:53:52):

yeah,

(00:53:54):

like I said before,

(00:53:54):

I was super into music when I was living in Hawaii,

(00:53:58):

and I started writing songs when I was,

(00:54:00):

like,

(00:54:01):

14.

(00:54:01):

Most of them were love songs about that girl that I wanted to marry.

(00:54:04):

But, like, you know, I kind of went from...

(00:54:08):

Just classical music to like,

(00:54:10):

yeah,

(00:54:10):

writing a lot of my own songs,

(00:54:12):

started teaching myself guitar,

(00:54:13):

stuff like that.

(00:54:15):

And I always like wanted to be in a band,

(00:54:17):

you know,

(00:54:18):

but like I always also,

(00:54:20):

you know,

(00:54:20):

felt like my stuff wasn’t good enough or like I was afraid of what people would

(00:54:23):

think or I just felt self-conscious that people would,

(00:54:28):

I don’t know,

(00:54:29):

because I wrote all the songs that they would think I’m controlling.

(00:54:33):

I don’t know, I just, I was afraid of, are you playing our music right now?

(00:54:39):

Can they hear this?

(00:54:40):

I don’t know.

(00:54:40):

I don’t know how these podcasts work.

(00:54:43):

For those of you that aren’t on the video pod,

(00:54:44):

we’re now playing track number 10,

(00:54:47):

Jingle Jingle America by Ben Looters from This Battle album from Piano Frog

(00:54:54):

Records.

(00:54:54):

There you go.

(00:54:55):

Totally made up record label, by the way.

(00:54:58):

Just like my made up book.

(00:54:59):

That’s right.

(00:55:00):

Fake just like your corsage.

(00:55:02):

Yep.

(00:55:05):

I haven’t listened to this in a long time.

(00:55:06):

I’ve never.

(00:55:07):

I’ve actually never listened.

(00:55:08):

So I remember being.

(00:55:09):

This is actually a good one to start with.

(00:55:11):

Yeah.

(00:55:12):

I don’t know how to use my CD player ever.

(00:55:13):

So we started either.

(00:55:14):

So we started track 10.

(00:55:15):

I remember being at a. I don’t even know.

(00:55:17):

We were talking about the why you started a band.

(00:55:20):

But I remember at a. I should probably say I was the drummer at this band.

(00:55:23):

I don’t know if that was actually stated.

(00:55:25):

And I was at a rehearsal digging through all your.

(00:55:27):

We were at the Fruitful Design office.

(00:55:30):

Yep.

(00:55:30):

And I was very bored.

(00:55:32):

Like I usually am in rehearsal.

(00:55:33):

By C.S.

(00:55:34):

Beaty

(00:55:54):

I have another couple boxes of these if you want to give them to all your friends.

(00:55:57):

All my podcasts.

(00:55:59):

So,

(00:55:59):

like and subscribe and send me an email and we will send you a complimentary album

(00:56:04):

of Jingle...

(00:56:05):

No,

(00:56:05):

This Battle by Ben Looters.

(00:56:08):

That’s right.

(00:56:09):

Yeah, it’s crazy.

(00:56:12):

I started writing, like, some of these songs I wrote when I was quite young.

(00:56:15):

This album I put together myself didn’t master it or anything.

(00:56:20):

It’s kind of poorly recorded, but...

(00:56:23):

I recorded it mainly when I was like 19, 20, 21.

(00:56:27):

I think something like that.

(00:56:30):

And it’s so hard for me to talk with this playing

(00:56:37):

But uh anyways yeah like I always like wanted to be in a band or start a band but

(00:56:44):

lacked the self-confidence I guess and so after I got married and I had a few kids

(00:56:50):

and I just like felt like gosh I need to do this or I’m gonna regret it kind of a

(00:56:54):

thing um now I wish I had done it when I was younger probably but then I guess I

(00:56:58):

probably would have started one with you no we were not friends when you were you

(00:57:02):

had way better friends back then you got right

(00:57:05):

It’s true.

(00:57:06):

Well,

(00:57:06):

it’s funny because what I ended up doing is I sent out,

(00:57:09):

it was the most insecure way to start a band.

(00:57:12):

So the funny thing, I don’t think you were in the original message.

(00:57:14):

No, I wasn’t.

(00:57:15):

I remember how I got asked.

(00:57:16):

Yeah, I blasted out, yeah, it’s in your book.

(00:57:19):

I blasted out a message to a handful of music friends.

(00:57:23):

So basically the other thing that happened was

(00:57:26):

In Hawaii, I didn’t have that many really good music friends.

(00:57:28):

I was like the big fish in a small pond where I grew up.

(00:57:31):

A small ocean in Hawaii.

(00:57:34):

Pacific Ocean.

(00:57:35):

There is not a lot going on there.

(00:57:38):

Man, I was leading worship in our small towns.

(00:57:40):

I literally think it was everyone but me.

(00:58:09):

You didn’t cross my mind when I thought of all the talented musicians I knew.

(00:58:14):

Luckily they all turned you down.

(00:58:16):

You were a later addition because I blasted this thing out to everyone that I knew.

(00:58:21):

I was like, hey, anyone want to start a band with me playing my songs basically?

(00:58:26):

And yeah, it was like Lucy, Whitney, and Aaron.

(00:58:29):

Did Dan right away?

(00:58:32):

I feel like Dan was a later addition as well.

(00:58:36):

So him and I were at the same first rehearsal.

(00:58:38):

Yeah, that’s right.

(00:58:39):

So it was just these three girls came forward.

(00:58:42):

And it was a little bit weird.

(00:58:43):

I’d actually been teaching Lucy, not piano, but teaching her songwriting at the 402.

(00:58:49):

I was a piano teacher, but she was good at piano, but wanted some help with songwriting.

(00:58:53):

So I actually knew some of the songs we ended up doing

(00:58:56):

I knew because I helped her in songwriting and teaching.

(00:59:01):

Composing.

(00:59:02):

And she was really good.

(00:59:03):

So that’s why I included her in it.

(00:59:05):

But it was kind of an interesting thing where basically these three single girls

(00:59:10):

said they were available.

(00:59:12):

And we were not.

(00:59:13):

Yeah.

(00:59:14):

By C.S.

(00:59:14):

Beaty

(00:59:34):

She was my first employee at my design firm.

(00:59:38):

So she was also a designer.

(00:59:39):

She did the Zinnia logo with me, like I mentioned.

(00:59:42):

And so she was like this known entity.

(00:59:44):

Whitney was her roommate.

(00:59:45):

And again, Lucy was someone that I had been teaching and I had known for years as well.

(00:59:49):

And so we did I think only one show where it was just me and these three girls.

(00:59:54):

Yep, I was there.

(00:59:55):

Yeah, so you were there.

(00:59:57):

Had I already asked you to be in the band to come and listen?

(00:59:59):

To come and listen, yeah.

(01:00:01):

That’s right.

(01:00:02):

So Chris played drums off and on at my church.

(01:00:06):

I was very off and on.

(01:00:07):

And it was one Sunday.

(01:00:09):

The one that I was on.

(01:00:10):

Yeah.

(01:00:11):

He had played this Sunday.

(01:00:12):

And I was like, oh, man.

(01:00:14):

He sounds just desperate enough that he might say yes.

(01:00:17):

Clearly.

(01:00:18):

I can’t believe these good drummers.

(01:00:20):

Clearly.

(01:00:21):

Because that’s the thing.

(01:00:22):

You actually asked, I think, every one of the other drummers that was playing at our church.

(01:00:27):

And then it was literally the one time I had played.

(01:00:31):

This guy.

(01:00:32):

He’s going nowhere.

(01:00:34):

I don’t know if we really talked about where my headspace was at.

(01:00:37):

I remember walking out of there feeling like garbage.

(01:00:41):

Absolute garbage.

(01:00:42):

It was a real bad experience.

(01:00:44):

It’s another podcast.

(01:00:47):

It’s something I still have a lot of resentment towards.

(01:00:50):

The people that were involved in some of those things.

(01:00:52):

I had always played the drums and been very...

(01:00:56):

I thought I was good, at least, you know, good enough to play in the venues that I did.

(01:00:59):

We were both living on islands.

(01:01:00):

We were both living on islands.

(01:01:02):

Both big fish and small pond.

(01:01:03):

Yeah,

(01:01:03):

and so then I go and I play this one time on a trial basis,

(01:01:06):

and it was very clearly communicated to me,

(01:01:10):

you do not have the gig.

(01:01:11):

Like, it was very clearly, you were only filling in, we do not want you doing this full time.

(01:01:17):

And I didn’t think it went particularly well.

(01:01:20):

I also thought it went well enough for me to not be treated that way.

(01:01:24):

I was in this weird headspace.

(01:01:25):

I got no positive feedback from anyone.

(01:01:28):

It was awful.

(01:01:29):

I walk out.

(01:01:30):

I didn’t know you at the time.

(01:01:33):

I knew who you were.

(01:01:35):

I knew of you.

(01:01:37):

You were in the band.

(01:01:38):

The band that I wanted to be in.

(01:01:39):

Playing the piano and stuff.

(01:01:41):

I remember walking out and you saying

(01:01:43):

You were talking to your little group of friends, probably Jacob, the videographer.

(01:01:48):

Yeah, probably Jacob.

(01:01:51):

You just literally went, hey, you ever thought about being in a band?

(01:01:53):

I was like,

(01:01:54):

Zacchaeus,

(01:01:55):

you come down,

(01:01:56):

because I’m coming to your house today,

(01:01:58):

is what I said,

(01:01:59):

I think.

(01:02:00):

You very much over-spiritualized the whole thing.

(01:02:02):

Yeah, it was weird.

(01:02:03):

But it was such a weird... For me, it was such...

(01:02:06):

I don’t know if I’ve ever told you how meaningful it was to me because I was just

(01:02:11):

in a bad spot and then you saying that was like really like this one guy who I

(01:02:16):

really respect and like at least musically I didn’t know if I knew respect to use a

(01:02:19):

person yet I hadn’t disappointed you not yet you’re very much on the fence

(01:02:25):

But the jury was very much out.

(01:02:27):

And then you just asked,

(01:02:29):

kind of sight unseen,

(01:02:30):

like this small little five song worship set where I got zero positive feedback

(01:02:34):

from anyone,

(01:02:35):

including the people that were kind of obligated by God to encourage me.

(01:02:39):

And then I was like, this dude wanted me to be in a band after this one thing.

(01:02:43):

And then I went and I remember you invited me and said,

(01:02:46):

hey,

(01:02:46):

you know,

(01:02:46):

you don’t got to commit to anything,

(01:02:47):

but come,

(01:02:47):

we’re doing this show.

(01:02:48):

And you called yourself Ben and Friends because- Oh, that’s what we never named.

(01:02:51):

You made it up.

(01:02:52):

I think you literally made it up.

(01:02:57):

It was like a real contender to be the name of the band for a while.

(01:03:00):

We’re like, let’s just go with that.

(01:03:01):

I forgot we didn’t have that.

(01:03:03):

We’d spent a long time figuring out the name.

(01:03:05):

I remember the conversation.

(01:03:06):

You did not want it to be your name and something else.

(01:03:10):

That was the whole thing.

(01:03:11):

I’ve always wanted that.

(01:03:13):

Which I think the name of our band was so cool.

(01:03:15):

It was cool.

(01:03:16):

You invited me.

(01:03:17):

I remember listening to the music being like, this is awesome.

(01:03:21):

Legitimately like, okay, I want to be a part of this.

(01:03:22):

I didn’t know anybody but you.

(01:03:24):

But just the total quality was definitely there.

(01:03:27):

I could tell you guys had something.

(01:03:29):

And then I go to the very first rehearsal, and that’s when Dan comes.

(01:03:32):

And I knew Dan from some engineering classes.

(01:03:35):

Oh, you already knew him?

(01:03:36):

I knew of him.

(01:03:37):

We had taken some classes.

(01:03:38):

He was a familiar face.

(01:03:39):

Jeez, I forgot about that.

(01:03:40):

And we did that thing where we both looked at each other and went like, hey, Chris?

(01:03:45):

Dan?

(01:03:45):

Yeah.

(01:03:47):

Teacher’s pet.

(01:03:47):

Yeah.

(01:03:49):

You’re the guy in the engineering classes with long hair.

(01:03:52):

Yeah, you’re the guy that talks too much.

(01:03:54):

Yeah.

(01:03:55):

And then it was just it was like it felt like if any musician that could probably

(01:03:59):

relate to that feeling just like it felt like like that lightning in a bottle kind

(01:04:02):

of thing like that that moment where just it just do you remember what Dan was

(01:04:06):

playing though he wasn’t playing bass you but it was discussed it was like yeah you

(01:04:10):

said well Dan or you or him or whatever it’s like Dan’s a really good guitar player

(01:04:15):

but we actually need a bass and Dan said

(01:04:17):

I kind of want to learn how to play the bass.

(01:04:18):

Right, he didn’t know how to play.

(01:04:19):

He never played.

(01:04:20):

He learned for the band.

(01:04:21):

Literally, I got a bass and learned how to play bass.

(01:04:23):

But I think about it because we actually have recordings from that first practice

(01:04:28):

where he’s playing electric guitar.

(01:04:29):

That’s the only time we ever had electric guitar in our band was in that practice that one time.

(01:04:33):

And it was kind of cool.

(01:04:34):

He did some different stuff.

(01:04:36):

It would have completely changed the sound, but we did need a bass.

(01:04:38):

And he ended up really bringing the bass.

(01:04:40):

The vibe would have been so much different.

(01:04:41):

Because if you listen to any of his, I mean, fans of the pod know...

(01:04:47):

speak loud and advocate recordings that I drop into without any plan whatsoever

(01:04:52):

drop them into random podcasts I mean yeah that stuff is so much different than the

(01:04:57):

Cavalier it’s not melodic I mean his stuff is like he’s so out there it’s like

(01:05:01):

weird and experimental I think he would describe it that way too versus like the

(01:05:05):

Cavaliers are like melodic and building and like dramatic dramatic yeah it was kind

(01:05:11):

of a cool band I’m not gonna lie like I had a lot of fun doing it I don’t need a

(01:05:15):

lie

(01:05:16):

It was like,

(01:05:17):

well,

(01:05:18):

it’s fun because in the end,

(01:05:19):

you know,

(01:05:20):

at first I was like,

(01:05:20):

oh,

(01:05:20):

this is going to all be my music,

(01:05:22):

but it wasn’t.

(01:05:22):

You know, Lucy wrote a good handful of the songs and even led some of the songs.

(01:05:29):

There was shared leadership and

(01:05:32):

Even our single was actually Lucy’s song.

(01:05:35):

And Dan really brought the bass on that.

(01:05:38):

And you brought the drums.

(01:05:39):

It was a lot of fun.

(01:05:41):

I learned so much through that experience.

(01:05:45):

But it was hard.

(01:05:46):

It’s just crazy.

(01:05:47):

You were the only married person.

(01:05:49):

I was the only married person when we started.

(01:05:51):

You were the band leader by far.

(01:05:52):

You were the person with all the connections to everything.

(01:05:55):

And I’m starting a business at the same time.

(01:05:57):

And I’m having my third kid.

(01:05:59):

I was just in the wrong time of life to be trying to do this thing.

(01:06:05):

It was hard.

(01:06:06):

I’m glad I did it, but I just learned a lot about my own limitations during that time.

(01:06:14):

I’m really proud of the music.

(01:06:15):

I think about it all the time.

(01:06:16):

I listen to the few recordings I have.

(01:06:20):

all the time.

(01:06:20):

I think they still sound so good.

(01:06:22):

That single sounds so good, Hide and Seek.

(01:06:27):

And it’s like, man.

(01:06:29):

So who knows?

(01:06:29):

Maybe someday.

(01:06:30):

It was a weird thing to be a part of and think,

(01:06:32):

like,

(01:06:33):

I had been in a lot of bands and known they were bad.

(01:06:35):

Like, I feel like that’s... Maybe you’ve never had that experience.

(01:06:38):

See, I never had that, really.

(01:06:39):

Worship bands, and I was in worship bands, especially in Hawaii, that were like

(01:06:44):

they were really rough again like I was in situations where I was young and the

(01:06:49):

best person on the band and I wasn’t that good like you know what I mean it was

(01:06:52):

like there was this one guy I don’t want to call him he’s probably passed away he

(01:06:56):

was older playing drums and it was the first drummer we ever had in our church in

(01:07:00):

Hawaii because we were very conservative and like drums were a little bit of the

(01:07:03):

devil yeah which I’m sure you’re very familiar with yeah they still are but he oh

(01:07:09):

poor guy I’ll never forget it what’s this the song is is it

(01:07:14):

He is exalted forever exalted.

(01:07:16):

Is that the one?

(01:07:17):

Oh lord, yeah.

(01:07:18):

But he did a completely different, it was Easter Sunday.

(01:07:21):

Yeah, because that’s a 6-8.

(01:07:22):

That’s a tricky tempo.

(01:07:23):

He just started doing a 4-4 tempo and we’re like, oh no, buddy.

(01:07:27):

Oh, no, buddy.

(01:07:28):

But it was one of those things where- It changes everything.

(01:07:33):

Trying to do the right thing.

(01:07:35):

Oh, it was a train wreck that never righted itself.

(01:07:39):

And it was Easter Sunday morning.

(01:07:41):

It was like I’m back there just like tears in my eyes.

(01:07:45):

Not from the Holy Spirit.

(01:07:46):

No, no, no, no, no.

(01:07:47):

This was bad.

(01:07:48):

And so like that was like the worst.

(01:07:51):

I went through some really rough stuff then.

(01:07:53):

But yeah, being in our band, it was a lot of fun.

(01:07:57):

We had a lot of fun.

(01:07:59):

Listening to the banter and some of the recordings, we were having a blast.

(01:08:03):

It was good music.

(01:08:04):

I think that’s a weird feeling for me, being in all these shitty screamo bands.

(01:08:10):

I can scream.

(01:08:11):

Do you want me to scream?

(01:08:13):

Not this time.

(01:08:14):

We’re already over an hour on this.

(01:08:15):

Oh gosh, yeah.

(01:08:16):

This is going to be a three-parter right here.

(01:08:18):

It is, yeah.

(01:08:20):

So, next time on

(01:08:23):

And we’re back.

(01:08:25):

Yeah,

(01:08:26):

it was like,

(01:08:26):

there was this moment,

(01:08:27):

like,

(01:08:28):

several times,

(01:08:28):

like,

(01:08:28):

where it’s like,

(01:08:29):

you know,

(01:08:30):

the cliches,

(01:08:30):

the pinch yourself moment,

(01:08:31):

but just like,

(01:08:32):

I remember being very aware,

(01:08:33):

like,

(01:08:33):

this is actually good.

(01:08:35):

Like, this is actually good.

(01:08:36):

Like, it’s something where, like, Thank you.

(01:08:38):

Well, I was a part of it.

(01:08:39):

I was a part of it, too.

(01:08:40):

Yeah, that’s true.

(01:08:41):

I’m saying, I was also good.

(01:08:43):

Oh, I thought you meant Ben and Friends.

(01:08:44):

Oh, yeah, Cavalier was fine, too.

(01:08:45):

No, I mean, you were fine, but me, too.

(01:08:47):

I wasn’t like, you know, I guess.

(01:08:49):

Hey, we have to say where the name came from, though.

(01:08:50):

Okay, the Cavalier.

(01:08:51):

The Cavalier.

(01:08:52):

Okay, you say it.

(01:08:53):

Well,

(01:08:53):

I mean,

(01:08:54):

so we started all the practices in my office in downtown Benson,

(01:09:00):

Nebraska,

(01:09:01):

which is this old historic area and this old historic building.

(01:09:06):

And at the time,

(01:09:08):

my office,

(01:09:09):

the Fruitful Design Office,

(01:09:11):

and the 402 Arts Collective,

(01:09:13):

they were kind of rehabbing this old building.

(01:09:15):

And in the building was this old barbershop called The Cavalier,

(01:09:19):

which,

(01:09:20):

in fact,

(01:09:20):

I don’t even know if you know this,

(01:09:21):

but my grandpa used to get his hair cut there.

(01:09:23):

So my grandpa,

(01:09:25):

my mom’s dad,

(01:09:26):

used to tell me stories about going to get his hair cut at the Cavalier when he was

(01:09:30):

younger.

(01:09:32):

But it had this cool

(01:09:34):

You know, painted sign of the Cavalier.

(01:09:37):

It was a giant mural on the side of this brick wall.

(01:09:39):

Yeah, on the side of the brick wall.

(01:09:40):

And so as we were like exploring different cool indie hipster sounding names,

(01:09:46):

this somehow made it on that list.

(01:09:48):

It was literally something where I remember we had a long list and then we’re all

(01:09:53):

like,

(01:09:53):

and the Cavalier wasn’t on it.

(01:09:55):

It was like we had the, you know, what’s the name of the band meeting?

(01:09:59):

and there’s this long list and you had like this you know note on your phone if

(01:10:02):

that technology existed yeah you’re using some hipster app um that was Evernote or

(01:10:07):

something yeah for something something that I didn’t know how to use uh and and

(01:10:11):

we’re like going on from we’re all just kind of like no not that wasn’t really

(01:10:14):

right it was literally I don’t know probably you but somebody just went what about

(01:10:17):

the Cavalier and we went yes yeah like it was like this weird moment where we’re

(01:10:21):

just like that is the name and it was like a movie and we had to keep on then we

(01:10:24):

had to fight everyone wanted to call us the Cavaliers which yeah oh yeah the

(01:10:28):

Clevelands

(01:10:28):

We’re only one.

(01:10:29):

There’s only one of us.

(01:10:31):

We’re a collective of the Cavalier.

(01:10:33):

The Cavalier.

(01:10:36):

We’re the Cavalier,

(01:10:37):

which was actually misleading because I’m pretty sure the mural just said Cavalier.

(01:10:41):

Yeah, it just said Cavalier, but people called it the Cavalier.

(01:10:43):

And that was at a time when everything I branded,

(01:10:45):

I put a the,

(01:10:46):

because there’s also the 402 Arts Collective,

(01:10:49):

which I’ve actually rebranded them as just 402 Arts Collective.

(01:10:52):

So I was putting the before.

(01:10:54):

I can’t believe I wasn’t the Fruitful Design.

(01:10:57):

I should have been.

(01:10:58):

You would have done a lot.

(01:10:59):

You probably wouldn’t be in your mom’s basement.

(01:11:00):

I probably wouldn’t.

(01:11:03):

I’d be in your basement.

(01:11:05):

Doing a podcast to zero listeners.

(01:11:09):

Well, yes, the recording contract, I remember you, so Benjamin Schaefer, does he go by Benjamin?

(01:11:14):

Yeah, sometimes we distinguish our names that way.

(01:11:16):

Okay, so Benjamin, that sounds business-y, not you.

(01:11:20):

Ben Schaefer, owner of the 402 Arts Collective, because it wasn’t rebanded.

(01:11:26):

He offered to pay for us to record an album, a full album, and we thought about it.

(01:11:32):

But at that time,

(01:11:33):

the momentum was kind of dying,

(01:11:35):

and we had actually tried to record on our own,

(01:11:38):

and it was literally just Dan,

(01:11:40):

our bass player,

(01:11:41):

and me doing the drum tracks.

(01:11:44):

We recorded all the drums.

(01:11:45):

Does that still exist?

(01:11:46):

Dan lost the files.

(01:11:49):

We recorded a few more of them.

(01:11:51):

I don’t know why we think you’re the loser in the band.

(01:11:53):

It’s really Dan for doing that.

(01:11:54):

I didn’t know we thought that about me.

(01:11:56):

I’m sorry.

(01:11:57):

Inside words.

(01:11:58):

Inside words.

(01:12:00):

I’ve known it was Dan.

(01:12:02):

You

(01:12:03):

So he loses the files.

(01:12:05):

And it’s like very classic Dan.

(01:12:07):

He’s like, I don’t know what happened.

(01:12:08):

I don’t know.

(01:12:08):

I don’t know what happened.

(01:12:09):

I’m like, we spent a lot of time.

(01:12:11):

And it was a we thing.

(01:12:12):

It was a him and me.

(01:12:13):

So it wasn’t just me.

(01:12:14):

It was both of us.

(01:12:15):

And I know he spent time trying to tweak it and stuff.

(01:12:18):

Because I had like scratch tracks that you guys were playing with.

(01:12:20):

Yeah.

(01:12:21):

I mean, we had some stuff.

(01:12:22):

But we did the entire album on drums.

(01:12:25):

And it was a full 10 song album.

(01:12:26):

And then we’re like, maybe we’ll just do an EP.

(01:12:28):

I’m like, I already did the whole thing, guys.

(01:12:30):

and then he lost a bunch so we re-recorded them and then he’s lost them again like

(01:12:33):

I’ve asked him and he still doesn’t know where they are and then but around that

(01:12:36):

sad I’ve always like kind of like hoped that they still maybe I’m sure they still

(01:12:40):

do just Dan doesn’t know where they are doesn’t mean they don’t exist that’s true

(01:12:44):

so around that time Ben Schafer offers to pay to like I mean he and to clarify like

(01:12:49):

he owned the studio we were working at so it would have just been using the

(01:12:52):

equipment we’re already using and just having like more of an incentive to actually

(01:12:55):

do it and he paid for our single

(01:12:57):

Did he?

(01:12:58):

Yeah, he paid for our single.

(01:13:00):

Man, Chris, your memory is so freaking good.

(01:13:02):

Yeah, well, that was the highlight of my life.

(01:13:05):

And then come to the next part of the story.

(01:13:07):

And then we get offered this recording contract that was a real recording contract,

(01:13:11):

but not by a label,

(01:13:13):

by this guy that owned this nonprofit.

(01:13:15):

And you definitely did not want to take it.

(01:13:18):

I did, but we made a decision.

(01:13:21):

And it wasn’t just you either.

(01:13:22):

I think we were pretty split.

(01:13:24):

Yeah, I think it was like half and half.

(01:13:25):

It was very much half and half.

(01:13:26):

And I think I definitely understood why we did it.

(01:13:30):

And we already kind of explained just phase of life.

(01:13:32):

We were in a totally different phase of life than the rest of us.

(01:13:34):

But it was a weird thing because it was definitely a moment where we were part of

(01:13:40):

something that was really cool.

(01:13:41):

Right.

(01:13:42):

And then it was just like, all right, well, it was cool.

(01:13:45):

But there’s something else that we’re going to be doing now.

(01:13:48):

Not even like the grass is green or something else is better.

(01:13:50):

It’s going to come along.

(01:13:50):

Just like this cool thing is not going to happen.

(01:13:53):

It’s not going to happen.

(01:13:54):

And that doesn’t mean it wasn’t cool, but it’s just not going to happen.

(01:13:57):

And so I guess we’ll move on, you know?

(01:13:59):

Yeah.

(01:13:59):

It kind of sucked.

(01:14:00):

It does kind of suck, doesn’t it?

(01:14:02):

So to put you on the spot, so we’re going to start a new band.

(01:14:06):

Well, didn’t you guys, like some of you, continue to do a band for a second.

(01:14:09):

It was not very good.

(01:14:11):

What was it called?

(01:14:11):

It had a funny name.

(01:14:12):

Polar Bear Opposites.

(01:14:13):

Okay, I was like, it had a bear in it.

(01:14:14):

It wasn’t that it was bad.

(01:14:15):

It was just it was a bunch of us goofing around, you know?

(01:14:17):

Okay, okay.

(01:14:18):

So the theme song to this podcast is actually one of the Polar Bear Opposite recordings.

(01:14:22):

Is it really?

(01:14:23):

Yeah, if you listen to any As Told By C.S.

(01:14:26):

Beaty, Empire.

(01:14:27):

That’s Polar Bear.

(01:14:29):

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:14:30):

I’ll play it right now in the edit.

(01:14:32):

See, now it’s going in the edit.

(01:14:34):

It’s going to be going.

(01:14:35):

This song.

(01:14:36):

And that’s Polar Bear Opposite.

(01:14:37):

That was one of the Polar Bear Opposite recordings.

(01:14:39):

We had this really long.

(01:14:40):

I guess it would be a bridge,

(01:14:44):

but that was back when Breakdowns were really cool,

(01:14:47):

which was like a hardcore bridge as a breakdown.

(01:14:49):

It wasn’t a breakdown, but it was just like, let’s have this long bridge.

(01:14:51):

We had a cool breakdown in Hide and Seek.

(01:14:52):

We did.

(01:14:53):

Yeah, that was the way the drums kicked in.

(01:14:55):

Yeah, that was so cool, dude.

(01:14:57):

Yep.

(01:14:57):

So anyways,

(01:14:58):

yeah,

(01:14:59):

so we did that for a little bit,

(01:15:00):

and then we just kind of all did,

(01:15:01):

like,

(01:15:02):

then I was the guy that went,

(01:15:03):

I’m actually going to start an MBA program,

(01:15:05):

so I don’t think I have time for this.

(01:15:07):

And then we’re like, aw.

(01:15:08):

And then I was the Ben Looters of the polar bear officers.

(01:15:14):

But that was a very it’s very different.

(01:15:15):

But the last time I saw and it’s funny,

(01:15:17):

like I still run into people from our band every once in a while.

(01:15:19):

But the last time I saw Lucy,

(01:15:21):

it was on her plane ride to move to San Diego,

(01:15:25):

which is this crazy.

(01:15:25):

What?

(01:15:26):

She was moving.

(01:15:27):

You have not told me that.

(01:15:28):

She was moving to California.

(01:15:29):

And you saw her on the plane?

(01:15:31):

On the plane while she was moving, which is wild.

(01:15:34):

Yeah.

(01:15:34):

And it was this craziest thing.

(01:15:35):

Like, it was like we did this.

(01:15:36):

I think it might even have been during COVID.

(01:15:37):

I think we might have had masks on.

(01:15:40):

So do you know it was her?

(01:15:42):

Yeah, we pieced it together.

(01:15:43):

We did the triple take, right?

(01:15:44):

Because it’s just the bridge to the nose up.

(01:15:47):

Yeah, would I recognize you if I just saw your creepy eyes?

(01:15:50):

Probably, because you look at pictures of me a lot.

(01:15:53):

That’s true, I do.

(01:15:55):

I hate to admit that.

(01:15:57):

Yeah, you made a lot of money off of that.

(01:15:59):

That’s true.

(01:16:01):

Exactly.

(01:16:02):

More money than I’ve made off of selling my book, I’ll say that.

(01:16:06):

Oh, man.

(01:16:08):

But yeah, I saw her.

(01:16:10):

It was a Southwest flight, so it was back when Southwest still made you the open space.

(01:16:15):

Oh yeah Which just recently changed Yeah so like she sat by In between my wife and

(01:16:19):

I And like we caught up And I don’t even remember Where Paige and I were going But

(01:16:24):

yeah she was on her way Like moving to California It was the craziest thing It was

(01:16:27):

so fun Yeah I think she still is But yeah it was so fun Seeing her for the first

(01:16:31):

time in years And just like This is a person that was like One of my closest

(01:16:35):

friends For that phase of life For that phase of life And now she’s you know Living

(01:16:38):

in a different country Country It might as well be Yeah California We don’t claim

(01:16:42):

California Not like We’re conservatives here Yeah

(01:16:45):

Well,

(01:16:46):

it’s funny,

(01:16:46):

because I also have...

(01:16:48):

You and I have been hanging out more and been working together more,

(01:16:51):

so that’s been fun for me.

(01:16:53):

But then also, I just randomly ran into Whitney over the weekend, Mother’s Day weekend.

(01:16:59):

And she’s a mom now.

(01:17:00):

She has several kids, and she had one of her kids.

(01:17:03):

It was so funny that me and my family ran into her.

(01:17:07):

And then she said...

(01:17:11):

That she just saw me the day before.

(01:17:13):

Yeah, and she had just seen you.

(01:17:14):

It was the first time I had seen her in weeks.

(01:17:16):

I think you were homeless asking for handouts or something.

(01:17:20):

It was a very low point in my life.

(01:17:22):

I was desperately asking anyone to buy my book, and no one did, so I gave Whitney a free copy.

(01:17:27):

You were on the side of the road asking if anyone could figure out how to use this

(01:17:31):

podcast equipment.

(01:17:32):

You’re just holding these cables.

(01:17:35):

It says USB-C is compatible.

(01:17:37):

It says it.

(01:17:39):

There’s all these YouTubers that say it’s so simple.

(01:17:41):

And you don’t even know this Chris but Monday night I don’t think you know this