About Zach Long and Eric Schwartz

Zachary Long and Eric Schwartz are the co-founders of Conductor AI. Both spent seven years at Palantir, where they met on a Department of Justice project supporting large-scale fraud prosecutions. But this wasn’t “start a company at first sight.” After collaborating, they split: Eric moved toward law enforcement and other USG components, then took what he calls “a bit of a rumspringa” into health tech; Zach went deeper into the Department of Defense. When Zach decided to leave Palantir, the two reconnected. Ben, the third co-founder, knew Zach from college and originated the idea with him; Eric joined shortly after as the first employee and built out the company.

The founding insight came from Zach’s own frustration. He wanted to write up a meeting in a Slack channel and was told he could not. He asked why. The internal security team said no, and there was no mechanism to challenge it. “Show me the document,” he said. Nobody could. Multiply that across the defense supply chain and you have put your finger on the systemic over-classification that riddles the national security enterprise. With a bit of good luck (and good timing), the LLM era arrived, and Zach found his solution.

About Conductor AI

Conductor AI builds software for high-stakes government decision workflows: security classification and declassification, foreign disclosure, export licensure, FOIA, and evidence review on the justice side. The platform ingests complex policy documents and institutional tradecraft, then orchestrates the decision tree a human expert would walk. The goal is for the product to generate more than just an answer; it also shares an underlying policy that supports it, so the reviewer can show the math to a starred superior.

Their customers are some of the least glamorous and most under-resourced offices in national security. One person at Nellis Air Force Base handles the entire technical manual transfer review process for the Air Force: 500,000 pages. One GS-13 adjudicates roughly $40 billion in export license approvals a year. These offices ask for more people annually and receive rotational staff who take six months to train and serve twelve months in seat.

The company has solid early traction: a direct-to-Phase-II Air Force Open Topic SBIR, deployment on classified networks with multiple releases per week, and two multinational exercises this summer. Those exercises were big wins, as they were able to take reviews that typically take a day down to an hour.

Learn more about Conductor AI: conductorai.com

Follow Zach: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zachary-long-20a78a21/

Follow Eric: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epschwartz/Follow Noah:

For more Crossing the Valley: www.ValleyCrossers.com

They were four people. They had ~$150,000 in the bank. And John Conafay wrote a check to an accreditation partner. That check was easily a double-digit percentage of the company’s value at that moment. And he risked it all on the conviction that a Space Force contract was going to land.

Well, this is Crossing the Valley, so you already know that it did.

Three years later that relationship became a $25 million, five year SBIR Phase III with Space Systems Command.

We’ve covered a lot of acquisition orthodoxy these last few years on CTV. This conversation was fun because of how John went a different path, and bucked convention.

He spent money he didn’t have.

He started the transition conversation before he’d delivered value.

He hired strangers to knock on doors for him.

And he pitched the hardest version of his product first.

Here’s a bit more from my awesome conversation with John Conafay.

About John

John is a US Air Force veteran and the founder and CEO of Integrate. He enlisted after a failed run at a metal and hardcore record label he started in high school, and spent his service in COMNAV fixing AWACS on the flight line in Alaska. He calls it “a swift swift kick” that he needed. Those early days on the flight lane have paid dividends to this day, by helping the “business guy” hold his own in engineering conversations.

After leaving the Air Force John studied economics at Arizona State, where he took over the national chapter of Students for the Exploration and Development of Space (SEDS). It was during this time that he ran a coordinated campaign to win a donation from one particular individual: Mr. Jeff Bezos, himself a former SEDS chapter president. John and team had no idea they’d succeeded until Bezos folded up his $250,000 Heinlein Prize check and announced that it should go to SEDS instead.

His career spanned a variety of startups, including joining BryceTech, becoming employee number eight (roughly) at Astranis, Director of Business Development at Spaceflight, and Head of Business Development at ABL Space Systems. And he did all this before founding Integrate.

About Integrate

Integrate builds multiplayer program management software for organizations that build complex hardware. Founded in early 2022 and based in Seattle, the company sells what John describes as “a schedule that many organizations can share, without seeing each other’s private data.”

John describes the status quo they’re up against as “Microsoft Project,” a piece of software that shipped in 1984.

The company won a $1.25 million SBIR Phase II with the Space Systems Command Mission Manifest Office in 2023, then a $25 million five year Phase III in June 2025. It reached IL6 accreditation and deployed into a classified environment in under twelve months.

For More:

* Integrate: integrate.co

* John Conafay on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/conafay

So when he tells you not to build hardware, it should mean something.

Josh started Gambit in 2023, in the middle of the drone gold rush, and deliberately did not build a drone. Set against the backdrop of the drone “gold rush,” that fundamental decision has shaped the company he’s built, and the impact they’re having just a few years into the journey.

About Josh

Josh grew up in Pittsburgh, the son of a nuclear reactor engineer and an electrical engineer. His sister is an engineer. His wife is an engineer. His brother-in-law is an engineer. Suffice to say, the dude has forever been surrounded by tech nerds.

His formative moment came at twelve, in the garage, watching his dad fix the car. Josh assumed his father was the smartest man alive who knew everything. But his dad corrected him that day: he actually did not know how to fix the car. But he knew how to solve the problem.

Josh went to Penn State, then Stanford for grad school, and interned at NASA Glenn at 21, which he describes as “underwhelming compared to the movies.” A colleague pointed him toward a small space company in Los Angeles, so he found himself interviewing with an up-and-coming entrepreneur named Elon Musk in the window between Falcon 1’s third and fourth flights, before SpaceX had ever reached orbit. Musk described building a reusable rocket engine rated for a hundred flights. Josh asked why anyone would want that. The answer was that they were going to land the rocket.

Josh went on to become one of about five engineers who built the Merlin 1D. It sits in the Smithsonian now. He left when SpaceX had grown from 400 people to 2,500 (still the largest company he ever worked for), because he could tell the founding-level experience was no longer available there.

Then came Virgin Hyperloop, where he served as CTO and later CEO across roughly seven years. Six years after starting, he sat inside the vehicle his team had built and put his own life on the line.

About Gambit

Gambit builds a platform-agnostic software layer that lets one operator orchestrate many autonomous systems across air, ground, and sea. The thesis is that robots are commoditizing, platforms are proliferating, and no single manufacturer is going to rule them all. The constraint becomes less about machine availability and more about the people to run them.

Gambit thinks about their product as an entire robot workforce rather than a “better robot.” Each entity is a specialist that works together toward a cohesive whole, much the same way a soccer team has forwards and a goalie, or a band has a guitarist and a lead singer.

The product architecture reflects the thesis: roughly ten software containers, from behavior building to composition to runtime interfaces, that can be split apart and sold in pieces. Behaviors are solved by platform class rather than by manufacturer, so a quadcopter class or a fixed wing class covers many vendors with a parameter file rather than a bespoke integration.

The company exited stealth in January 2026 with partnerships including AWS, L3Harris, RTX, and Sierra Nevada. Since then it has announced two multi-million dollar Air Force contracts, an Army GVSC OTA for counter-UAS simulation, a red force as a service partnership with the Pendleton UAS Range, and integrations with ModalAI and Psionic.

For more on Gambit: https://www.gambit.us

For more Crossing the Valley: https://www.youtube.com/@crossingthevalley

Follow Josh Giegel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-giegel/

Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

About Brian

Brian Taylor spent about fifteen years as a mechanical engineer before he ever sat in the founder’s chair. He came up through aviation and aerospace, then landed at SpaceX, where he did development, qualification, and testing on Starlink satellites, including the structural qualification of the first stack of 60. From there it was Amazon’s Project Kuiper for high rate satellite production, then Loft Orbital.

But despite this tour d’force through a who’s who of space companies, by his own admission, Brian was never a space nerd. It really bugged him that you would work that hard on something, and unless you happen to be an astronaut, you would never see the hardware again. You do not get to iterate on it. You do not get to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

An engineer who wants his hardware back. That frustration became a company.

About Lux Aeterna

Lux Aeterna builds fully reusable satellites. While there’s been lots of attention heaped on the rockets, Brian and Lux are focused on the satellite itself. The goal is to fly the mission, survive re-entry, land intact, refurbish it, put a new payload on it, and send it back up.

Brian founded the company in Denver in August 2024. It came out of stealth in June 2025 with a $4 million pre-seed led by Space Capital, and closed a $10 million oversubscribed seed led by Konvoy in March 2026, bringing the total to $14 million.

The company’s first vehicle is called Delphi. It is roughly 200 kilograms, built around a rigid conical heat shield that doubles as the satellite’s primary structure, with a parachute assisted return. It will fly on a SpaceX Transporter rideshare in Q1 2027, with recovery at the Koonibba Test Range in South Australia through a partnership with Southern Launch. The company holds a Space Act Agreement with NASA Ames and two CRADAs supporting the re-entry and thermal protection work, and has stood up a Defense Advisory Board.

The entire payload capacity for that first mission is already sold out, across civil, defense, and commercial customers, hardware and software, small companies and large.

Also worth noting for the culture watchers: he did this interview from inside a sauna. An actual, off the shelf sauna, sitting on the production floor, because it was cheaper than the fancy sound-proof pods that Google puts all over its offices. The idiot index on that thing has to be excellent.

For more on Lux Aeterna: https://www.luxaeterna.com/

Follow Brian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianjtaylor/

For more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

Cyber operations have always lived in the shadows of the national security conversation. In the wake of the Department of War suspending CMMC Level 2 guidance, this episode unpacks the essential, high-stakes, and rarely understood world of cyber security, as Sam Jones, CEO and co-founder of Method Security, joins Noah to talk about building autonomous offensive and defensive cyber capability for the U.S. government and the country’s most critical enterprises.

We go deep on why the “post-Mythos” moment has changed the calculus for every CISO in America.

About Sam

Sam Jones is the CEO and co-founder of Method Security. His path into cyber started early: an internship at GDIT the summer after high school introduced him to network penetration testing and defensive systems work, and a SMART scholarship later routed him into Air Force Cyber in San Antonio as a civilian operator, where he progressed from a GS-7 to a GS-11 …in just one year. He left convinced the government's real problem wasn't talent acquisition but talent retention. ("It's nice to have these short tour duties to get people in, but you want to create the criteria to keep people around.")

Sam had wanted to work at Palantir since he was 18, after stumbling on early Gotham demos on YouTube. Rejected from his first internship application in 2010, he came back and joined after leaving government in 2014, spending five years there building cyber products and meeting his two future co-founders, Sean and Dan. After Palantir, Sam joined Shield AI as roughly its 25th employee, working on autonomy for robots operating in real-world, no-fail missions. This experience planted the seed for Method’s core idea: applying that same flavor of self-directed autonomy to cybersecurity.

That idea sat dormant, passed back and forth between Sam and his future co-founders for years, until GPT-4 arrived in 2023 and gave them the technical ingredient they’d been missing. Within six hours of Sam raising the idea, both co-founders were in, and the three quickly quit their jobs to found Method Security.

About Method Security

Method Security builds autonomous cyber systems for the U.S. government and critical enterprises, applying autonomy to a blend of offensive and defensive missions, from red teaming to vulnerability research and penetration testing. The company’s core bet is that organizations need to move faster than adversaries without sacrificing trust, governance, or control, and that this capability needs to be operator-owned and enterprise-governed. The unifying question: how do you secure systems faster, in-house, to outpace adversaries, while keeping the human operator in command?

Founded in September 2023 by three Palantir alumni, Method quickly closed a seed round with Andreessen Horowitz within about a week of pitching. Rather than immediately going to market, they went heads-down for roughly six months focusing entirely on building the product they knew they needed. When they finally came up for air, they quickly landing their first Fortune 500 design partner (around nine months in), and their first federal contract soon followed, in the form of a direct-to-Phase-II SBIR with the Space Force (around eleven months in). Deliberately, Method has never split its team into separate commercial and federal go-to-market functions — Sam describes it as intentionally absorbing the “pain” from both markets into one product organization so that tension shapes the platform from the ground up.

Today, Method serves both government and Fortune 500 customers, with a particular focus on institutions that have the most to lose.

Top 5 Takeaways

* People are more important than the idea. Method’s founding team spent nearly five years trading startup ideas back and forth in shared Notion docs before landing on the one that stuck. The team and the working relationship mattered more than any single idea. Early stage investors are quick to highly cofounder pairings as a key determinant of success or failure, and Method’s team had de-risked their relationship through years of collaboration at Palantir and beyond.

* One team, two markets. It is rather unusual to see a single team tackle both sides of “dual use” simultaneously, without hiring differently. Cybersecurity is likely one of the few markets in which such an approach could succeed. Method intentionally runs a single product team that feels pressure from both markets simultaneously. Sam compares it to the strongman “Hercules Hold” — enduring the pain of both sides at once and translating it directly into product.

* Heads-down beats over-iterating. After closing their seed round, the founders deliberately limited outside feedback and focused on building conviction around what the market needed, rather than chasing every piece of user input. Too much feedback, too early, can pull a founding team away from the thing they were actually built to build.

* The “post-Mythos” moment reshaped the market. As frontier-class AI models become available to adversaries, boards are now directly asking their CISOs what their response plan is. That question has become one of Method’s most effective go-to-market unlocks. At the same time, Sam is wary of blanket regulation of large language models themselves, arguing the real risk lies in how models get wielded by software platforms, not in the models alone, and that overregulating relative to unregulated open-weight alternatives could put U.S. companies at a disadvantage.

* A correct prediction is worth more than a fast pivot.It’s worth reiterating that Method didn't iterate its way to product-market fit. The co-founders deeply studied the market for a decade, formed strong opinions, and stayed heads-down through a dark first year while outside voices pushed different directions. When the moment came, Method was an obvious answer with a deep, already-published technical answer. That kind of conviction is a massive unlock.

For more on Method Security: www.method.security

For more on Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

Follow Sam: LinkedIn | X

Follow Noah: LinkedIn | X

Crossing the Valley is a podcast on technology, defense, and national security. Watch the full conversation with Sam Jones on YouTube, and find Method Security’s careers page if you’re interested in joining their mission.

Before starting Turion, Ryan spent nine years as an engineer at SpaceX, joining not long after the company’s sixth flight and working under Kevin Wu — an engineering leader Ryan credits as one of the best of his generation (now leads engineering at Relativity Space). Ryan’s interest in space dates back to 2002, when he first saw an NPR segment about the discovery of exoplanets that set him on his life mission.

About Turion Space

Turion Space is a space technology company built around a long-term vision: extracting economic value from space beyond satellite communications — ultimately, asteroid mining. Rather than raising all of the (massive) capital that vision would require up front, Turion is executing what it calls the “Starforge” strategy: decomposing that future architecture into discrete, scalable business portfolios — tactical space, space logistics, geospatial/ISR, and an underlying mission software and ground-operations stack (branded Starfire OS) — each capable of generating revenue and proving technology on its own timeline.

Turion went through Y Combinator after months of rejection from accelerators and VCs unfamiliar with space’s capital requirements. Since then, the company has closed an oversubscribed $85M Series B, secured a STRATFI, and won a position on Space Systems Command’s RG-XX IDIQ — a program for next-generation proliferated surveillance and reconnaissance in geosynchronous orbit.

For more Turion Space: https://www.turionspace.com/

For more Crossing the Valley: LinkedIn | YouTube

Follow Ryan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rwesterdahl/

Follow Noah: X | LinkedIn

Jackie is the founder and CEO of Whitespace. She began her career supporting the counter-IED mission during the surge in Iraq, working as a red-team analyst. She was a threat emulator who studied the tactics, ideology, and bomb-making techniques of adversary networks, often in Arabic on the dark web, then fused that with classified collection. That experience, and witnessing what timely intelligence does for operators downrange, became the through-line of everything she’s built since.

Jackie returned to grad school to study what changed after 9/11, and got pulled into an R&D community around Activity-Based Intelligence (ABI) — a methodology that made trained analysts roughly 300x more effective. Notably, Jackie has a liberal arts background, not an engineering one. And, fun fact: she founded Whitespace in 2014 when her first child was six months old (there’s something about young parents as founders…)

About Whitespace

Founded in 2014 and headquartered in Alexandria, VA, Whitespace builds sensemaking AI for defense and intelligence. The company bootstrapped for roughly a decade, funding technology development through consulting revenue, before raising a small seed round in 2025 (~$3.2M per public reporting) backed by family offices and a few VCs.

Its early IP, Worldline, is a simulation engine that creates a digital twin of a city-sized population observed by a synthetic sensor architecture, to generate realistic, multi-sensor training data. That capability won Whitespace its first prime contract with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) in 2017 to build the ABI curriculum for the entire intelligence community, which the company then instructed for nearly eight years.

The flagship product today is Iris: an agentic AI “analyst” that lets operators self-serve pattern-of-life intelligence in natural language. Under the hood, Iris is built on ABI tradecraft translated into a toolkit of deterministic algorithms, wrapped in an agentic system carrying the persona and judgment of experienced analysts. Iris can run standalone, alongside human SMEs, or headless via API — and is designed for a future where her biggest user group may be other agents and autonomous platforms, not people.

Notably, by the time the company raised venture capital, it had flipped from ~80% services / 20% product to ~80% product / 20% services, 4X’d ARR, doubled revenue, and roughly doubled headcount.

For more on Whitespace: inthewhitespace.com

Follow Jackie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackie-barbieri/

For more Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com | youtube.com/@CrossingTheValley

Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

Phil Duong is the CEO and co-founder of Noda AI. The son of Vietnamese immigrants who arrived in the U.S. with little money and speaking little English, he grew up in a family of service members who had fought for their freedom. His heritage left him with a deep sense of patriotism and a drive, as he puts it, to repay the country “multiple lives’ worth.” He won a spot at West Point but walked away from it when a childhood medical issue blocked him from branching aviation, calling the Marine Corps instead because they needed pilots and were willing to give him a shot. After leaving active duty, he built a career at enterprise-AI company C3, rising to general manager of its federal practice before leaving to start Noda. He frames himself first and foremost as “a Marine and patriot,” a self-description that shapes how he runs the company and what he’s willing to say in public.

About Paige Craig

Paige Craig is the founder and general partner of Outlander VC. Growing up homeless, and raised in what he describes as a violent world, he was named for a grandfather who rose from enlisted soldier to an officer under General Patton. Paige was recruited to West Point — where he claims the distinction of being the most-punished cadet in his class — and left in his third year, recognizing he was “the wrong guy” for the institution’s barracks mentality. He moved on to the Marine Corps and the intelligence community, and in 2003 built a private military company operating at and beyond the forward edge in Syria, Afghanistan, and Africa, which he sold. As an investor, his entire lens is the founder and the mission, evaluated against a proprietary 38-point framework built around vision, intelligence, character, and execution.

About Noda AI

Noda AI is a startup building the orchestration and decision layer for autonomous warfare. Rather than building drones or vehicles, Noda aims to overlay government-designed tactics and strategy onto the autonomous platforms other companies are building. Their software seeks to re-create what a strike cell or operations center does today, fast enough to run in real time as robots take over more of the battlefield. The idea is that battle plays for defeating advanced threats need to be baked into deployable algorithms in advance, ready to push down to autonomous boats, planes, and submersibles the moment competition turns to conflict. The company started as a five-person team that prototyped for roughly a year unpaid, and is now working across what Phil will only describe as “very topical” combatant commands. Find them at NodaIntelligence.ai.

About Outlander VC

Outlander VC is an early-stage venture firm focused on writing first checks into exceptional, often low-signal founders others haven’t yet recognized. The firm runs a high-volume, high-selectivity funnel. Paige says that over 10,000 founders come in through the top of the funnel each year, with roughly 5,000 passing AI filters to a first call, a few hundred meeting the team in person, and 10 to 12 ultimately receiving funding. Paige keeps more than half his calendar deliberately unscheduled so he can take long walks with founders and go deep on the person rather than the pitch deck. The firm now has seven partners Craig has trained.

For more about…

* Noda AI: https://www.nodaintelligence.ai/

* Outlander VC: https://outlander.vc/

* Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

Follow:

* Phil Duong: LinkedIn

* Paige Craig: X | LinkedIn

* Noah Sheinbaum: X | LinkedIn

His appearance on Crossing the Valley has been a long time coming!

This week, John joined us to talk about Cape — a privacy-first cellular carrier he started in 2022 after a decade at Palantir and a tour as a Green Beret communications leader.

The simple version of the story is “ex-Palantir guy builds secure phone company.”

The truth, of course, is a whole lot more interesting.

For more on…

Cape: https://www.cape.co/

John Doyle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-doyle-48633227/

Crossing the Valley: LinkedIn | YouTube

Noah Sheinbaum: LinkedIn | X

Featuring Cameron McCord, CEO and co-founder of Nominal

About Cameron

Cameron McCord has seen the defense ecosystem from more seats than most. He started his career as a young submarine officer, operating, in his words, with “the best of 1980s technology” and learning what it feels like to be beholden to antiquated tech when the mission is on the line. He carried that frustration into operating roles at Anduril and Saildrone, where he watched fast-growing hardware companies scale and saw the same testing problem appear at every one of them. Then he went to Lux Capital, where he saw the same pain across a thousand more companies and turned a hunch into a thesis.

Today, that thesis is a company called Nominal, one of the fastest growing, well-capitalized, and highly touted defense tech companies in the industry.

About Nominal

Nominal is a software and data platform for hardware testing operations. The hardware test market is a bit anathema for us non-technical folks. But the reality is, anyone who builds anything in the real world, whether for a commercial market or the warfighter, has to test and validate it. Until recently, that was mostly done via spreadsheets, MATLAB scripts, and hard-to-reach data. Nominal took many of the processes that befuddle founders and seasoned executives alike, and automated them. The company was incubated at Lux Capital. They intended to serve both commercial and defense customers from day one. And they’ve been on a tear, recently announcing a sole-source $53 million IDIQ for the Air Force Test Center. Today, Nominal is active in the Navy at Pax River, developed partnerships with MIT, and has some exciting news with DARPA.

After speaking time with Cam, I left convinced that Nominal really is going after the single biggest (remaining) roadblock to meaningful acquisition reform. If we don’t solve test, we cannot meaningfully shrink the divide between cool ideas in R&D and capabilities that are validated and safe to deploy. If we’re entering a tech boom cycle (and if you’re even a slightly AI-pilled reader, it’s not hard to imagine that we are), then the need to quantify risk, readiness, and the value of a test (especially one you can skip) becomes a whole lot clearer. Cameron’s whole approach is a bet that the way across the valley of death is not to test less or test faster in a vacuum, but to finally be able to prove, with data, exactly how much testing is enough.

For more on Nominal: LinkedIn | Website | X

For more Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com | YouTube

Follow Cam: LinkedIn | X

Follow Noah: LinkedIn | X

About Ed Mehr

Ed Mehr is the CEO and co-founder of Machina Labs. A builder since childhood (he attended a school that emphasized welding, carpentry, and craft) Ed started his career in software before crossing over into hardware as an early engineer at SpaceX in the early 2010s. The cultural shock of moving from “ship a prototype in days” software to “wait months for a single iteration” hardware became the founding wound that drove him toward agile manufacturing. After SpaceX, he joined Relativity Space to work on 3D-printed launch vehicles, then founded Machina Labs to build the missing infrastructure he believed was the real bottleneck to America’s next industrial age: a general-purpose manufacturing platform that didn’t require part-specific tooling or CapEx. He’s a self-described capitalist and car guy, and prints small batches of his own shirts when an idea strikes him. Kinda badass.

About Machina Labs

Machina Labs is building “RoboCraftsman.” These are autonomous robotic cells that form sheet metal parts the way a potter shapes clay. Two robots come at a flat sheet of metal from either side and progressively deform it into complex 3D geometries, eliminating the need for the dies, molds, and multi-story stamping presses that have defined sheet metal manufacturing for a century. The company serves a dual-use customer base spanning commercial (Toyota is both a major customer and an investor) and defense (Air Force depots, missile primes, NASA). Machina has already deployed production cells at Air Force depots, where they’re making C-130 panels and other legacy aircraft parts that previously required hunting down donor airframes in junkyards or waiting four years for new tooling. The company is roughly 70–80 people, hiring aggressively, and approaching the end of qualification testing with parts on track to fly soon. Machina is now entering its scale phase, and Ed teases that a missile-program prime announcement is imminent…

For more on Machina:

* Careers: machinalabs.ai/careers

* Follow Ed: X | LinkedIn

For more Crossing the Valley:

* Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

* Substack: valleycrossers.com

* YouTube: https://youtu.be/_WN-GJaCbGs

About John Hong and Tallis Chang

John Hong is CEO and Tallis Chang is COO of Obsidian Sensors. The two have worked together for over 40 years, with backgrounds in aerospace before joining Qualcomm. At Qualcomm, they were part of the team that spent nearly a decade developing low-power displays using MEMS (Micro Electro Mechanical Systems) built on glass substrates. When Qualcomm decided the program no longer fit its core business, John and Tallis were given the runway to find a new application for the manufacturing know-how they had built. That pivot became Obsidian Sensors.

About Obsidian Sensors

Obsidian Sensors, headquartered in San Diego, manufactures microbolometers — the core sensor inside thermal imaging cameras — using a fundamentally different platform than the rest of the industry. Where incumbents builds them on silicon wafers, Obsidian builds these sensors on display glass, leveraging LCD fabrication infrastructure in Japan and Taiwan that already produces millions of phone and watch displays. This shift dramatically reduced unit cost while preserving sensor performance.

The company spun out of Qualcomm in 2017 with seed capital, transferred equipment, seven team members, and five patent applications. It initially targeted the automotive market before pivoting to defense after receiving a DIU OTA at the start of COVID. Today, Obsidian is a critical supplier of thermal cameras to the US drone ecosystem, with production scaling from 5,000 units in 2025 to a planned 1 million units per year by the end of 2026 at its Top Gun Street facility in San Diego. A Phase 2 facility targeting 10–20 million units annually is planned for 2028.

Follow John: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-h-973b372/

Follow Tallis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tallischang/

Learn more about Obsidian: https://www.obsidiansensors.com/

Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

Follow Crossing the Valley: YouTube | LinkedIn

Brian Spurlock is VP of Growth and Strategy at Persistent Systems, and a self-described “boomerang” employee, meaning he’s had two separate tenures at the company. He came up as a Special Operations acquisitions officer at Fort Bragg, which means he’s seen the Persistent Systems story from both sides: as the government buyer evaluating the technology and as the company executive selling it. He left for a stint at AWS, returned, and is now the one figuring out how to bring tactical mesh networking from Special Operations into Army divisions. He is based in the Fort Bragg / Pinehurst area of North Carolina.

About Persistent Systems

Persistent Systems builds tactical mesh networking hardware and software: specifically, the Wave Relay and Cloud Relay systems, delivered on hardware called the MPU (currently MPU5, with MPU6 in development). The idea is simple and hard: create a mobile RF network that moves with operators, passes real data at real speeds, and requires zero thought from the person holding the radio. Founded in 2007 by two Johns Hopkins PhDs — Herb Rubens and Dave Holmer — the company has never taken outside capital. It manufactures in Manhattan. It has customers across U.S. Special Operations, conventional Army (currently scaling into division-level exercises with 4th Infantry Division), the Air Force, NATO allies, and public safety. It is on the verge of Army program-of-record status after nearly 20 years.

Follow Brian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/spurs/

For more Persistent Systems: https://persistentsystems.com/

For more Crossing the Valley:

* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/crossing-the-valley/

* YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@crossingthevalley

ABOUT ARIYAN KABIR

Ariyan Kabir is the co-founder and CEO of GrayMatter Robotics. He started the company in early 2020 alongside two co-founders, building on PhD research conducted at USC’s Center for Advanced Manufacturing, where he and one co-founder studied the intersection of robotics and AI. The third co-founder, chief scientist Satyandra K. Gupta, has spent more than 35 years working at the intersection of AI, robotics, and manufacturing and sits on multiple national boards.

Ariyan’s framing of the problem is shaped by a realization that came from the academic environment: that manufacturing (long assumed to be “solved”) is in fact one of the largest unaddressed application areas for modern AI. The US is currently short half a million skilled manufacturing workers, a gap projected to reach four million in seven years and put $2 trillion of annual GDP at risk.

ABOUT GRAYMATTER ROBOTICS

GrayMatter Robotics builds the autonomy layer for high-mix, high-variability manufacturing, the roughly 90% of factory work that cannot be addressed by traditional pre-programmed robotics. The company’s robots perform tool-manipulation tasks: sanding, grinding, polishing, buffing, coating, blasting, and inspection. Underneath the robots sits the company’s real differentiator: a foundation model for materials and processes, trained on what Ariyan describes as the largest manufacturing process dataset in the world: 7 petabytes of multimodal sensor data spanning 14–18 modalities per cell.

The business is now six years old. This interview was recorded at the company’s 100,000 sq ft Physical AI Experience Center in Carson, California, which is the company’s fifth facility. Today, GrayMatter’s customers include Boeing, Raytheon, Oshkosh, Caterpillar, Riddell, the US Navy, the US Air Force, and Huntington Ingalls Industries, where GrayMatter is a partner on the HYPR (High Yield Production Robotics) program designing the next-generation American shipyard.

The company sells outcomes, not hardware. Robots are deployed on a subscription basis with multi-year commitments, and performance compounds quarterly through software updates, recipe upgrades, and hardware refreshes.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

1. Sequence the market. Commercial first, defense second.

GrayMatter spent its first three-plus years building almost entirely in the commercial world, despite the obvious dual-use relevance of factory automation. Their reasoning was that defense customers tolerate zero failure, and an unproven autonomy stack cannot debug itself inside an aircraft program. By the time the company turned toward national security work, they had already validated the technology, the business model, and the deployment muscle.

2. The business model can be the product.

Performance Composites — GrayMatter’s first customer — had been searching for a robotic sanding solution for five years before the conversation with GrayMatter. IT wasn’t so much a capability they were missing as it was a different risk appetite: manufacturers cannot tie up millions of dollars in Capex on unproven technology. GrayMatter’s response was to invert the deal entirely: zero upfront cost, deployment first, subscription payments only after the system was producing value in production. In exchange, the customer committed to a multi-year contract. The structure became the wedge that opened the entire Fortune 100.

3. Adoption became the geostrategic moat.

Asked how 7 petabytes of US manufacturing data compares to South Korea or Shenzhen, Ariyan reframed the question. The race isn’t about dataset size. The US ranks near the bottom of the top 10 in robot-to-worker adoption ratios; South Korea is #1 and China is climbing fast. Tonnage-wise, China has built more ships in the last 12 months than the US has built since WWII. This reframing has direct strategic implications: a defense industrial base strategy that focuses on technology sovereignty without obsessing over diffusion velocity will lose to one that does the opposite.

4. GrayMatter builds AI into every layer.

GrayMatter identifies eight distinct layers of engineering work that sit between a customer problem and a delivered outcome: industrial engineering, solution engineering, process recipe engineering, cell design, tool/fixture design, implementation, sustainment, and digital-twin operations. Most robotics companies put AI in one layer: the robot. This means the other seven can become bottlenecks. But GrayMatter is now deploying domain agents at every layer, coordinated by an orchestration layer the company calls Factory Super Intelligence (FSI). The focus on under-appreciated elements of the solution set has helped them differentiate.

5. Hire from the intersection. The mixing room doesn’t work.

GrayMatter’s most expensive hiring lesson was that you cannot assemble a great physical AI team by recruiting the best AI specialists, the best manufacturing engineers, and the best roboticists into a room. The translation cost is too high; each discipline optimizes for its own definition of the problem. What does work is hiring people who already live at the intersection of at least two of the three domains, then leveling them up on the third. The company’s head of customers came from Tesla. Their head of aerospace and defense was two steps below Boeing’s CTO. Their head of hardware also came from Tesla. This was a counterintuitive lesson, but one that stuck with me most from the conversation.

Follow Ariyan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ariyankabir/

For more GrayMatter: https://factory.graymatter-robotics.com/

For more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

Ben Cipperley spent 26 years in the Navy. The first 18 he served as an Explosive Ordnance Disposal office, with three tours across the Indo-Pacific, three years between Iraq and Afghanistan, and command in Guam. Which is to say, he has more experience than most.

What makes his background unusual isn’t the operational experience; plenty of veterans make the transition. It’s the Pentagon chapter that came after. A fellowship at the Stimson Center led to a resource sponsor role writing the Navy’s budget, which led to being pulled onto the team drafting the 2022 National Defense Strategy (mid-process, while Russian forces were marshaling in Belarus). Which led to working under the CNO on what became the Navy’s first force design document in 50 years. It’s a classified vision for the fleet in 2045 that, he notes, had quite a few robots in it.

He put an “Open to Work” banner on LinkedIn when he retired. The CEO of Havoc called him 20 minutes later.

About Havoc AI

Havoc AI is a collaborative autonomy software company. The pitch is deceptively simple: one operator, thousands of autonomous systems. The technology is the connective tissue, the software layer that lets a surface drone, an aerial drone, and a ground vehicle share a common operational picture and respond to commands from a single interface, rather than requiring separate operators, separate control systems, and separate data pipes for each platform.

The company was born from a conference convened by then-Undersecretary of Defense Heidi Shyu around the concept of “Hellscape,” IndoPaCom’s deterrence concept for a Taiwan scenario involving massive swarms of autonomous systems. The question in the room wasn’t whether the platforms existed. It was: how do you make thousands of them work together when a human brain can only track so many things at once? Founders Paul Lwin and Joe Turner quit their jobs the next day and started building the answer.

Early validation came through Silent Swarm, an exercise run by Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane. Havoc showed up with 12 prototypes of their Rampage platform. Representatives from NIWC Atlantic watched, then bought the prototypes on the spot. Those units shipped to Portugal to support Task Force 66. That’s the loop Havoc is now trying to close, and why they recently acquired Mavrik (air) and Teleo (ground) to make good on the multi-domain part of the pitch.

The business model is worth understanding clearly. The government is bad at buying software. It tends to need software wrapped in a hardware container before it can conceptually acquire it. Havoc has internalized this and partnered with eight different maritime platform builders, plus air and ground hardware partners, so that their autonomy stack arrives pre-integrated with best-of-breed hardware. They’re not trying to be the OS layer that makes everyone else’s platforms work together. But they’ll sell you the hardware too, because that’s how you get the check.

For more about Havoc AI: https://havocai.com/

Follow Ben: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bencipperley/

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Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

Crossing the Valley explores the journey from proof of concept to production in defense technology. New episodes weekly.

Luke Fischer is the CEO and co-founder of SkyFi. He is a former U.S. Army helicopter pilot and Special Operations veteran who transitioned through DIU (Defense Innovation Unit), Uber Elevate (as Head of Flight Operations), and Joby Aviation (leading government operations) before founding SkyFi in late 2021. He also spent time as an Entrepreneur in Residence in VC, which gave him direct exposure to what gets funded — and what doesn’t. That multi-domain journey across military, Big Tech, and venture is core to how he built SkyFi.

About SkyFi

SkyFi is a geospatial intelligence marketplace and platform that aggregates satellite imagery and analytics from hundreds of commercial satellite operators — making it accessible to any customer, anywhere, via web or mobile app. Rather than owning or launching satellites, SkyFi sits at the aggregation layer: abstracting away which provider owns the satellite and letting users task imagery or pull analytics with a button press. The business is currently approximately 80% government / 20% commercial, serving customers ranging from top global hedge funds and agriculture companies to Special Operations Forces, NATO, and allied governments across Asia. SkyFi closed its Series A in December 2024.

For more SkyFi: skyfi.com

For more Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com

Follow Luke: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukemfischer/

Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

Todd Stiefler is VP of Enterprise at WHOOP, overseeing the company’s B2B and B2G business lines. He brings an unusually cross-functional background to the role: a decade as a Senate defense staffer focused on missile defense and strategic nuclear deterrent, followed by product and commercial leadership roles at GE’s industrial IoT division, LMI, and Palantir. A self-described “tech nerd” and ultra-marathoner who finished the Leadville 100 in 27 hours, Todd found WHOOP the way most people find things that change their lives — by accident, scrolling LinkedIn late one night. He’s been building the company’s defense business ever since.

About WHOOP

WHOOP is a Boston-based wearable technology company focused exclusively on human performance and health optimization. Unlike general-purpose smartwatches, WHOOP does one thing: continuously measures high-fidelity physiological data — heart rate variability, resting heart rate, respiratory rate, skin temperature, and strain — and translates it into actionable metrics around sleep, recovery, and readiness. Its early customers included elite professional athletes, and it has since grown into a mass-market product worn by hundreds of thousands of consumers and, increasingly, military personnel. WHOOP is actively pursuing the DOD enterprise market, partnering with programs like SOCOM’s POTD and the Army’s Holistic Health and Fitness (H2F) initiative. The company’s enterprise division, led by Todd, handles everything from individual unit programs to large-scale institutional deployments.

Key Takeaways

1. Build for your most demanding user first.

In contrast to the “minimally viable product” framework, WHOOP’s early decision to build exclusively for elite athletes — with LeBron James and Michael Phelps among their first 100 customers — wasn’t a marketing stunt, but a product strategy. By targeting the most demanding performance environment, they built something rigorous enough to eventually serve everyone else. That same logic attracted special operators before conventional forces, and conventional forces before institutional DOD programs. They solved for the “edge cases” first rather than the average user, because they were solving their distribution challenge through their product design.

2. But the right product alone isn’t enough… you still have to solve the process.

Todd was direct about what WHOOP got wrong in its early defense push: they had a best-in-class product but hadn’t built the surrounding infrastructure. No contract vehicles. No data sharing agreements. No pricing architecture tuned to government procurement. “The DOD buys from people that solve their process, not their problem.” Getting that right — not just shipping a great device — is what actually enables scale. So while many of us laugh at high-ceiling IDIQs without real funding, the vehicle is a key ingredient.

3. The wearable itself is actually not the intervention.

This was one of the most important points from the episode: motivated, self-selected consumers who buy WHOOP on their own are signaling their desire to change their behavior. Warfighters handed a device in a conference room, with no context, no coaching, and no program design, often won’t. Even though the average warfighter may be more attuned to their body than the average civilian, in this case, if the warfighter doesn’t opt in, the product won’t deliver. This insight is why Todd never sees WHOOP going to a “push to all” rather than a “pull” based sales motion. If it’s foisted upon people, it will not produce the desired effect.

4. In federal sales, relationships and strategic partnerships beat conference booths.

Todd assesses that in the defense market, niche events where you can have real conversations, and partnerships with athlete management system providers who can pull WHOOP into their stack, have been the most valuable sources of leads. Trade show booths? Much less effective. As always, your mileage may vary, but it’s another reinforcing data point suggesting deep, niche relationships beat a larger breadth with high impressions.

5. Sell sustainable programs, not hardware deployments.

Todd’s north star for WHOOP’s next 12 months is helping customers build programs that will still be running in five years. That means bringing in WHOOP’s human performance experts and solution architects early, co-designing integration with existing data platforms, and being the vendor who asks, “What are you actually trying to achieve?” before taking the purchase order.

For more Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com | LinkedIn

For more on WHOOP: WHOOP.com

Follow Todd: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddstiefler/

Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

Byron Boots is the co-founder and CEO of Overland AI. Prior to starting the company, he was an associate professor in computer science at the University of Washington, where his research focused on machine learning and robot autonomy. Byron served as principal investigator on DARPA’s Racer program, one of the most ambitious off-road ground autonomy challenges the agency has run since its landmark Grand Challenge series in 2004–2005. It was in that role — out in the field, iterating under adversarial test conditions — that the insight and technology behind Overland AI took shape.

About Overland AI

Overland AI builds autonomous ground vehicle software and systems for the U.S. military. Their flagship platform, ULTRA, is a purpose-built unmanned ground vehicle with upgraded suspension, miniaturized compute, and a suite of sensors including stereo cameras, LiDAR, thermal cameras, and Starlink — capable of GPS-denied navigation in extreme off-road terrain.

The company operates across four primary concept of operations: ISR (intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance), logistics and resupply, layered protection (including counter-UAS), and breaching. Their go-to-market approach has been almost entirely driven by demonstrated field performance. Initially this came through DARPA experiments, then through DIU and direct work with Army and Marine Corps units. Overland has won contracts including the DIU Ground Vehicle Autonomous Pathways program and is currently focused on scaling into formations and establishing a permanent operational presence with the services.

Key Takeaways

Five principles from Byron’s journey that apply broadly to defense tech founders:

* Field, first. One of the most counterintuitive decisions Byron made at University of Washington was to hire strong vehicle mechanics as some of his first team members. It’s a simple but counterintuitive logic. You don’t have to build the perfect software in the lab before you put it on the vehicle because if vehicles could be repaired rapidly in the field, the software team could test more aggressively, fail faster, and iterate without fear. Thus, the vehicle mechanics gave the rest of the team leverage.

* The best BD is performance (with the lights on). Overland AI’s early business development was almost entirely organic. I pressed him on DARPA’s checkered history of transitioning programs, but in this case, DARPA invited the other services to watch their field experiments. Those experiments were credible, because the company often didn’t know what was coming. It wasn’t a PowerPoints brief or a table top conversation; it was an opportunity for customers to see the tech in action. That credibility dramatically accelerated their sales path.

* Build on top of what works. Byron’s framework for capability development is deliberate: get one robot working reliably, then add a second, then build multi-vehicle coordination. Don’t architect for the end state. Prove each layer before adding the next. This mirrors successful product development in commercial software but is even more important in defense, where integration failures in the field are immediately visible and costly.

* “If it’s not seamless, it won’t survive contact with the warfighter.” Despite the old saying “good enough for government work,” the operational bar for defense products is actually quite amorphous. Byron observed that “a slow or unreliable robot simply gets abandoned.” In other words, your project might die without you even knowing. The product actually has to perform well enough that operators don’t think about it. Only then can you expand the mission set, add payloads, or introduce multi-vehicle coordination.

* It’s not about your tech. The sooner you embrace this, the faster you’ll win.

Winning a contract gets you in the door, but a contract isn’t the same thing as winning warfighter trust. Byron draws a clear distinction between them. Overland's next 12 months aren't going to be defined by new contracts as much as they are going to be defined by creating "a permanent presence" with Army and Marine Corps units. I love this point because it suggests a totally different motion. It’s not about closing the deal or renewing it. It’s not about another slide or another meeting. It’s about doing things that don’t scale, having people side by side with the mission owners, and obsessing over the question of how to make your technology invisible inside existing workflows rather than celebrated as a novelty.

For more Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com

For more on Overland AI: www.overland.ai

Follow Byron: https://www.linkedin.com/in/byron-boots/

Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

In this episode, Forterra CEO Josh Araujo is joined by Ari Schuler, a returning CTV guest, to take us inside Forterra’s acquisition of goTenna.

Company Overview

About Forterra: Ground autonomy company enabling war fighters to shoot, move, and communicate more effectively. Technical stack includes autonomous driving systems, mission payload integration, and now mesh communications through the goTenna acquisition. Working with military customers across operational theaters. Founded 20+ years ago (as Robotic Research), recently closed Series C while simultaneously acquiring goTenna.

About goTenna: Mesh networking communications company providing interoperable comms, born from Hurricane Sandy in Brooklyn. Pivoted from consumer to military/public safety after discovering product-market fit with operators in Afghanistan, Iraq, and the southern border. Technology enables high node-count networks (100+ devices) sending low-bandwidth position/location data, critical for blue force tracking and preventing friendly fire.

About our Guests

About Josh Araujo: CEO of Forterra, building autonomous ground vehicle technology for military operations. Retired Marine, and Jefferies investment banker covering aerospace and defense. Joined Forterra (then Robotic Research) in 2021 as the first non-technical hire, now leading a company with 20+ years of autonomy innovation transitioning to programs of record.

About Ari Schuler: Former CEO of goTenna, now leading the communications division at Forterra. Built goTenna’s pivot from consumer to B2G, deploying mesh networking technology in conflict zones globally. Former DHS official who created Customs and Border Protection (CBP)’s innovation team, bringing government operator perspective to commercial tech development.

Key Takeaways

1. Skip the vitamin, find the medicine.

Ari’s mentor gave him a deceptively simple framework: are you selling something people want (vitamins), or something they can’t live without (medicine)? goTenna started as a consumer product, but product-market fit became unmistakable once the technology hit Afghanistan, Iraq, and the southern border. Ari explains that when you found the true medicinal use case, you go all in. Straddling consumer and government markets wastes capital and credibility that companies don’t have to spare.

2. The ability to sustain operations in the field is the real moat.

Both Forterra and goTenna had extraordinary technical pedigrees: Forterra’s co-founder holds 100+ patents, and goTenna’s mesh protocols are proprietary and deeply differentiated. But Josh was explicit: deploying at scale into combat environments is “miles apart” from having a cool demo. The muscle required to do customer success, field maintenance, and operational support in places like Afghanistan or Ukraine is not taught in any graduate program.

3. In M&A, cultural alignment is what ultimately determines deal success or failure.

The core of the conversation centers on how Josh turned a term sheet around in 72 hours, from a Friday morning coffee between Ari and Scott Sanders (another CTV alum), to an afternoon board meeting, to a signed term sheet by Sunday night. This kind of speed is not only a function of high caliber financial modeling and expertise, but of a clear strategic rationale and cultural fit. Josh talked about his view that even the best business alignment in the world can’t overcome a cultural mismatch. Culture doesn’t mean squishy values in this case. It refers to the companies’ shared mission focus, values, and tech stack (NetSuite, Arena, JIRA).

4. The defense VC funding model is creating a structural problem for which consolidation is the only solution.

Josh flagged a concern that most defense tech founders are quietly aware of: many of the best companies in this space have great technology, great teams, and genuine product-market fit, but lack venture-scale TAMs. VC math requires one in a hundred to go 100x. At the risk of sounding trite, that calculus alone will not support the entire ecosystem of mission-critical hardware businesses. As a result, if venture is the primary tool, companies that shouldn’t fail will fail because of capital structure problems. This is why Josh is shaping Forterra into a leading consolidator to create a home for these companies.

5. In a post-merger integration, the first priority is “do not break what’s working for the customer.”

Too many post-merger integration efforts try to move fast, combine everything, and extract synergies. In this deal, Josh and Forterra explicitly rejected this. The approach has been phased and deliberate: first, validate the technology combination (goTenna’s X2m module was physically integrated into Forterra’s Vector platform within 30 days, achieving 25x the range of the previous radio). Second, resource the acquired team to execute on their existing pipeline. Third, after the teams have developed organic trust, start to combine go-to-market and engineering functions. This cadence matters because defense vendors cannot afford to push artificial disruptions on their customers. As Ari explains, “We can figure out the HR systems. What we can’t do is mess up operational deployments.” The customer relationship is paramount.

For more:

* Website: Forterra | goTenna

* LinkedIn: Forterra | goTenna

* Follow Josh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-araujo/

* Follow Ari: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ari-schuler-1ab93239/

* Follow Crossing the Valley: https://www.linkedin.com/company/102082197/

Dino Mavrookas is the CEO and co-founder of Saronic. He served 11 years in the U.S. Navy SEALs (2004–2015), with his final five years on SEAL Team Six. After leaving the military, he transitioned to private equity at Vista Equity Partners, where he spent roughly five years before the pull of mission-driven work drew him back to defense. Dino describes his transition as a gradual realization, like being a “frog in boiling water,” that he wanted to dedicate his career to building solutions that protect the country. He founded Saronic in September 2022 with backing from 8VC and a slew of other high profile investors.

About Saronic

Saronic is a maritime autonomy and shipbuilding company headquartered in Austin, Texas. Founded in September 2022, the company designs, builds, and deploys autonomous surface vessels for the U.S. Navy and allied forces. In just over three years, Saronic has grown to approximately 1,000 employees across six U.S. locations and two international offices (Australia and UK). The company’s flagship products are Corsair, a 24-foot autonomous speedboat built at their 500,000 sq. ft. Austin facility (capacity: 2,000+ units/year), and Marauder, a 180-foot autonomous ship being built at their shipyard in Franklin, Louisiana. Saronic secured a $392 million contract with the U.S. Navy in late 2025, with the Secretary of the Navy publicly endorsing their approach as the model for future procurement. The company has announced Port Alpha, a $5B+ initiative to build the world’s largest and most advanced shipyard, with the goal of producing 10 million gross tons annually. This would effectively 100x current U.S. shipbuilding capacity.

For more on Saronic:

* Website: saronic.com

* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/saronic-technologies/

* Follow Dino: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dino-mavrookas-190244127/

* For Careers: https://jobs.lever.co/saronic

For more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

About our Guests

David Barboza is the CEO and Co-Founder of Wirescreen. Before founding the company, David spent over two decades as a journalist at The New York Times, where he served as Shanghai bureau chief for 12 years and won a Pulitzer Prize for his investigative reporting on the hidden wealth of Chinese political elites. A history major by training, David’s career was defined by painstaking, multi-year investigations that required connecting vast networks of corporate records, government documents, and financial data across borders. He also co-founded The Wire China, an independent publication covering the U.S.-China relationship.

Bradley Martinez is the Head of Go-to-Market at Wirescreen. Bradley’s career has centered on using data and analytics to drive risk-based and opportunistic decisions, primarily in financial services. Before joining Wirescreen (shortly after the company’s Series A), Bradley held roles at FactSet and other data-driven firms. At Wirescreen, he has overseen the company’s pivot from a financial services focus to a government-first go-to-market strategy, building the partner networks and sales infrastructure needed to scale in the federal market.

About Wirescreen

Wirescreen is a Sequoia-backed intelligence platform that maps Chinese business networks and their global connections for the U.S. government, defense contractors, and the broader national security community. The platform aggregates millions of Chinese corporate records (including ownership structures, investment flows, patent filings, supply chain relationships), translates them into English, and connects them to reveal hidden relationships between commercial entities and state/military actors. Originally conceived as a business intelligence tool for financial services, Wirescreen found its strongest product-market fit serving government agencies dealing with the complexities of great power competition. Use cases span export controls, IP theft investigations, CFIUS reviews, fentanyl precursor tracking, university research security, critical minerals mapping, and defense supply chain vetting. The company also operates The Wire China, a journalism division that both generates revenue and serves as a data quality feedback loop for the platform.

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For more on Wirescreen: https://wirescreen.ai/

Follow David: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-barboza-7bba4325

Follow Bradley: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradleymartinez/

Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

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AJ Piplica is the CEO and co-founder of Hermeus, a defense technology company developing hypersonic aircraft powered by air-breathing engines. His technical background centers on aerodynamics and hypersonics, with early career work on rocket engines and re-entry systems. Unlike many defense tech founders who come from software or commercial tech, AJ’s obsession with speed and aviation started in childhood and led him down the space track in college before gravitating toward the aviation side of hypersonics. He chose this path specifically because he wanted to push boundaries rather than spend a career optimizing incremental performance improvements on existing turbine technology.

Zach Shore was recently promoted from Chief Revenue Officer to President of Hermeus. After beginning his career as a Marine Corps Intelligence Officer, Zach served in a variety of industry roles, including as a consultant at Deloitte, Sr Director of Business Development for JAD C2 at Anduril, and Vice President of Product at Vertafore before joining Hermeus in 2022.

About Hermeus

Hermeus builds hypersonic aircraft designed to operate in what AJ calls “the final frontier of aviation.” The company focuses on air-breathing, reusable systems rather than expendable rockets or boost-glide vehicles. Their approach mirrors the commercial space industry’s transformation of launch: prove you can iterate rapidly on full-scale hardware by treating vehicle loss as an acceptable cost of learning when no crew is involved. Hermeus has won Other Transaction Authority (OTA) awards like Chimera and Antares, where the government pays for data and milestone achievements rather than traditional cost-plus development contracts. The company is building 30,000-60,000 pound aircraft, which requires substantial upfront capital and a production-first mindset from day one.

Key Takeaways

1. Separate mission assurance from safety to unlock hardware iteration

The most critical insight from the commercial space revolution applies directly to hypersonics: hardware risk and human safety risk are fundamentally different categories. Traditional aerospace culture treats hardware loss with nearly the same level of concern as human casualties, creating a risk-averse engineering environment that prevents the kind of rapid iteration required to advance into new flight regimes. The regulatory frameworks inherited from crewed aviation assume that preventing crashes is paramount, but autonomous vehicles enable a different approach where controlled crash scenarios become acceptable learning opportunities. This shift in mindset allowed SpaceX to iterate at full vehicle scale, and Hermeus is applying the same principle to air-breathing hypersonics.

2. Build products for operators from day one, not technology looking for a mission

The traditional research lab model follows a sequential path: develop interesting technology, demonstrate it works, then attempt to transition it to an operational program. This approach has a poor track record because it separates technology development from real operational requirements. Hermeus inverts this by starting with the operator and ensuring every development decision solves an actual warfighter problem that delivers substantial value. This explains why product companies often struggle to work with organizations like the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL), which see themselves as architects who design capabilities and expect contractors to build to spec. When you show up with your own product vision, there’s inherent friction with a “not built here” culture.

3. Concentration of capital beats diversification for hard tech at scale

The Defense Innovation Unit’s hedge strategy tapped into a fundamental reality of complex hardware systems: you cannot prototype your way to a 60,000 pound aircraft on Small Business Innovation Research funding. The temptation in government innovation programs is to spread risk by funding many small bets, but this approach fails for systems that require immense upfront investment to de-risk both technology and production scalability. While giving 25 companies $5 million each might work for low cost attritable systems, in capital intensive hard tech the Hermeus team would prefer to see the government fund five companies with $25 million and pick some winners. This requires clear accountability and transition pathways, but it enables companies to actually build hardware that can reach production scale.

4. OTA structures unlock speed by paying for outcomes instead of activities

Hermeus had success with awards structured as Other Transaction Authority contracts because they changed what the government was buying. Rather than paying for development activities and managing the technical approach, OTA programs pay for data generated along the way and for milestone achievements that deliver specific capabilities. This shifts the focus from process compliance to outcome delivery. For a company like Hermeus, this means the government isn’t dictating how to develop the aircraft or micromanaging spending decisions. Instead, they define what capability they need, and the company has the flexibility to build the infrastructure and processes required to deliver it efficiently.

Summary

Counterintuitively, the hypersonics race may not be about who has the most PhD researchers or the biggest simulation clusters. The Hermeus team suggests it will come down to who is willing to take hardware risk at full scale, iterate based on flight test data, and build products that solve real operational problems from day one. Hermeus represents a new generation of defense companies that learned from commercial space: embrace hardware iteration, separate mission assurance from safety, focus on operators instead of technology for its own sake, pursue concentrated capital rather than diffuse funding, and hold yourself publicly accountable through concrete metrics.

For more: hermeus.com

Follow AJ: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajpiplica/

Follow Zach: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zacharyshore/

Subscribe to Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com

Ian Cinnamon is the co-founder and CEO of Apex Space, which he launched to solve a fundamental bottleneck in the space industry: the lack of available, high-quality satellite platforms. Prior to Apex, Ian worked in aerospace engineering and identified the satellite bus as a critical constraint for the growing commercial and defense space ecosystem.

About Apex Space

Apex Space is a merchant supplier of satellite platforms (buses), building standardized, high-volume spacecraft that customers can purchase off-the-shelf and customize for their missions. The company has raised over $400M across its Series C and D rounds from investors including Andreessen Horowitz, 8VC, Shield Capital, and Interlagos. Apex differentiates itself through production speed, vertical integration, and a focus on unit economics. Surprisingly, they make money on every bus they sell. By mid-2026, the company expects to have approximately six satellites on orbit across various customer missions.

Key Updates (One Year Later)

1. DOGE Resilience: At the start of 2025, DOGE caused significant turbulence, cutting programs, shifting priorities, and forcing sales leaders to rebuild pipelines. Apex learned to “bend with the wind” rather than rigidly pursuing predetermined opportunities. Today, the company’s opportunity set is 10x larger than a year ago, but composed of entirely different programs than originally anticipated.

2. Raising Capital on Their Terms: Apex closed two major rounds in 2025, a $200M Series C and a $200M Series D. The Series D came unsolicited from Interlagos, who saw Apex’s execution and customer traction and pushed to invest even when the company wasn’t actively fundraising.

3. Vertical Integration as Strategic Imperative: As Apex scaled, external suppliers couldn’t keep pace. So they’ve brought almost everything in-house. By mid-2026, 70% of Apex’s subsystems will have in-space heritage. By year-end, the target is full vertical integration. This required significant capital investment but ensures supply chain resilience as production scales.

4. Betting Ahead of Demand: Apex announced Project Shadow, a self-funded ($15M) space-based interceptor technology maturation program. They are positioning for massive opportunities even before demand.

5. Building for the Bubble: Ian believes defense tech and space are in a bubble that will eventually pop. So his goal is to ensure Apex never needs another dollar of outside capital to survive. The company is profitable on every satellite bus it sells. This operational discipline means Apex can weather a market correction while competitors dependent on continuous fundraising may struggle.

Learn more: apexspace.com

Subscribe to Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

Ben Van Roo is the CEO and Founder of Legion Intelligence. He comes from a military family (his brother is currently on active duty), giving him both personal connection to and deep understanding of the defense community’s needs. His career encompasses a combination of academic rigor and operational execution.

ABOUT LEGION INTELLIGENCE

Legion Intelligence is an applied AI company that connects AI capabilities to the actual workflows, processes, and legacy applications used across the Department of Defense.

The Core Problem: AI models have gotten remarkably good, but they remain disconnected from how work actually gets done.

The Legion Product: Legion builds the infrastructure that makes any workflow, across any environment, AI-enabled. The company’s offerings runs on edge, cloud, or hybrid environments; connect to legacy applications without requiring expensive system integrator rebuilds; and are model-agnostic (e.g., work with open source, proprietary, and government models). Ben also says they are the first to deploy an agentic workflow platform in IL5 and IL6 classified environments.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

1. The Plumbing Problem Is the Real Problem

When Ben was at Primer in 2017, he watched open source models become “terrifyingly good.” But nobody was actually using them across their workflows. He realized it wasn’t as much about the model as it was about connecting AI to the six or seven systems people actually touch to get work done.

2. Find Champions Who See the Future

General Fenton at SOCOM was “light years ahead of everyone, including venture capitalists” in understanding enterprise AI. He wanted to bring AI across the enterprise before ChatGPT made it obvious. Legion secured their initial IDIQ contract because one visionary leader saw where things were going.

3. Get Technology Into Users’ Hands Immediately

The most important lesson Ben took from Primer was that feedback cycles are everything. At Legion, the philosophy became: “Any exercise, any event, anything where we can go—we’re going to be there.” Bring your own hardware, do all the work to get there, and prove it works.

4. Make Early Technical Bets That Seem Confusing

Legion was first to deploy GenAI on small form factors for national security. First on-prem. First on IL5. First on IL6. These investments seemed odd at the time, when others were just focused on the cloud. But they created defensible positioning as the market evolved.

For more on Legion: legionintel.com

Follow Ben: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanroo/

Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

Subscribe to Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com

Ben is the Chief Business Officer at Ursa Major, bringing over 22 years of government service to the defense tech startup. His career includes 10 years in the Coast Guard, legislative experience as a congressional staffer on appropriations, and corporate leadership at defense giants L3 and Honeywell.

At age 50, Nicholson made an unexpected leap from the established defense industrial base to a venture-backed startup, driven by a desire to give back and the realization that his experience and perspective could help bridge the gap between young engineering talent and the realities of defense procurement.

A self-described “constitutional geek” who signs half his emails simply “America,” Ben brings an unusual combination of technical credibility, government insight, and entrepreneurial drive to URSA Major’s mission.

About Ursa Major

Founded 11 years ago during the space launch “gold rush,” Ursa Major pivoted to focus squarely on defense propulsion, addressing what they see as the long pole in the tent for anything that moves fast in the battlespace.

The company is focused on three key mission areas:

* Homeland Defense: Hypersonic propulsion systems

* Munitions: Solid rocket motors

* Space Mobility: Propulsion for orbital applications

The Business Model: URSA Major is a products and systems company, not a services shop. They’ve received $250 million of private capital (including a recent $100 million Series E), opened a 400-acre test facility in Northeast Colorado, and can go from clean sheet design to hot fire in 29 days.

The Core Innovation: Ursa Major combines additive (3D printing) and agile manufacturing to achieve rapid iteration while building toward scale. Their philosophy is to use printing to lock designs fast and avoid costly mistakes before committing capital to production tooling.

Check out the Website: https://ursamajor.com/

Follow Ursa Major: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ursamajortech/

Follow Ben: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-nicholson-666257205

Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

Subscribe to Crossing the Valley: www.youtube.com/@CrossingTheValley

ABOUT TROY DEMMER

Troy is the co-founder and Chief Product Officer of Gecko Robotics. He started the company 12+ years ago as a college senior project at Grove City College in Western Pennsylvania, alongside co-founder Jake Loosararian. Troy came from a medical background and saw an opportunity to bring diagnostic thinking to industrial infrastructure. He personally led Gecko’s expansion into defense starting four years ago, and the company now manufactures robots in Pittsburgh while deploying them across power plants, refineries, naval vessels, and nuclear facilities.

ABOUT GECKO ROBOTICS

Gecko Robotics builds AI-powered climbing robots that inspect and assess the structural health of critical infrastructure. The company started by serving commercial clients — power plants, refineries, and manufacturing facilities — before expanding into defense. Today, their technology inspects ICBM silos, destroyers, submarines (including SSNs and SSBNs), and is moving into new construction for Columbia-class submarines and naval reactors. Sam Altman wrote their first check during their YC batch, and the company turned down an early acquisition offer from an OEM. Gecko manufactures in Pittsburgh, PA and emphasizes keeping robots “employed” rather than sitting unused.

TIMESTAMPS

[1:10] Origin story: The power plant problem that started it all

[2:35] How a college alumni connection led to Gecko’s first customer

[4:00] “You can’t build this in a lab”

[4:48] Two years in one boiler: Jake’s journey building the first robot

[6:33] Forward deployed engineering and the Palantir inspiration

[8:02] Finding product-market fit: The YC experience and Sam Altman’s first check

[10:00] “Hiding in plain sight”

[11:47] Transition to defense: From power plants to national security

[13:05] AFWERX and SBIR: Building the foundation for defense work

[14:24] What translated from commercial and what required rethinking

[16:21] Working with OEMs: Reverse scanning and the first acquisition offer

[18:35] First defense asset: The path to inspecting ICBM silos

[20:09] Inside the room: Getting robots certified for nuclear environments

[21:33] Current state: Scaling across destroyers, submarines, and new construction

[25:37] Business model: Robots as capability vs. permanent fixtures

[27:00] Manufacturing in Pittsburgh and scaling production

[28:07] “95% of robots are unemployed”

[29:35] Advice for startups: Think integration from day one

KEY TAKEAWAYS

1. Access to the Problem Is the Unfair Advantage

Gecko’s origin story embodies the ethos of building with not for a customer. A power plant operator came to their college with a specific problem: 70% asset uptime and constant unplanned downtime. He offered access to his facility. Co-founder Jake spent two years inside a single boiler refining the first robot. Troy is emphatic: “I don’t think you could build a technology like this in a lab. That was the unfair advantage — just access to the problem.”

2. Using SBIRs to Build Infrastructure

When Gecko decided to pursue defense, they started with AFWERX and SBIR programs — Phase 1, and a number of Phase 2 contracts. Beyond the funding, the value was in building what Troy calls “the semblance of a defense company”: registrations, certifications, procurement knowledge, and the operational credibility needed to scale. Jake and Troy recognizing Small Business Innovation Research for what it was: scaffolding for the larger business they wanted to build.

3. Target O&M Budgets to Bypass Procurement Timelines

Gecko made a strategic decision to enter defense through operations and maintenance cycles rather than new procurement. The reasoning was practical: O&M money already exists and can be spent in-year. “If we had a capability that could be used today to improve an O&M cycle, great. We can buy that in year. We don’t have to set up this longer cycle.” This let them demonstrate value quickly, build relationships, and expand scope from a single destroyer to entire platform classes.

4. Start at Forward Bases Where Urgency Is Higher

Gecko’s first naval deployment wasn’t at a major domestic shipyard — it was at SRF Japan, a forward-deployed repair facility. Troy’s logic: “You’ve got a little less capability at a forward base. The urgency to get things done with creativity and innovation might be a little bit higher than your mother shipyards here back at home.”

5. Design for Integration, Not Just Capability

Troy’s parting advice cuts to the core of why many defense tech companies struggle to scale: “In order to deploy technologies here, it’s not just pushing code. You’ve got to meet the physical realm where it’s at. If it doesn’t work for the people on the ground, if it doesn’t make their lives easier, you’re gonna get organ rejection.” Gecko succeeded because they thought about tech insertion from day one.

FOR MORE:

About Gecko: https://www.geckorobotics.com

About Troy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/troy-demmer-27037526

Crossing the Valley: youtube.com/@crossingthevalley

Dan Smoot is the CEO of Vantor, formerly Maxar Intelligence. He comes from a background in high-tech companies and has led major business transformations before. Since taking the helm, Dan has overseen the company’s transition from a publicly traded satellite imaging business to a private, solutions-focused company. He led the controversial decision to retire the Maxar brand — one of the most recognized names in commercial space — in favor of the new Vantor identity. Under his leadership, the company has launched six satellites, dramatically increase recurring revenue, and is expanding aggressively into international markets.

ABOUT VANTOR

Vantor (formerly Maxar Intelligence) is one of the world’s leading commercial satellite imagery and geospatial solutions providers. The company operates a constellation of satellites delivering 30-centimeter resolution imagery — the highest commercially available. After being taken private by Advent International and BCI, Vantor sold its manufacturing division and completely transformed its business model from transactional imaging sales to subscription-based solutions. The company’s products include maritime awareness, site monitoring, GPS-denied navigation, and 3D mapping. Vantor claims to be one of only two companies (alongside Google) with global 3D mapping at scale, and serves customers across defense, intelligence, and commercial markets worldwide.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

1. Sometimes You Have to Kill the Brand to Transform the Business

Maxar was one of the most recognized names in defense tech, synonymous with exquisite satellite imagery. But that brand equity became a liability. Customers saw “imaging company” and couldn’t see the new capabilities: AI-powered analytics, maritime awareness, GPS-denied navigation, and 3D solutions. The rebrand to Vantor was strategic: “You have to reorient the eyes of the customer to make sure they understand there’s broader modernization happening.” Add the complexity of Maxar Space being sold to Intuitive Machines, and leadership felt keeping the old name would only have created more confusion.

2. Going Private Creates Air Cover for Transformation

Vantor’s transition from transactional sales to 90% recurring revenue didn’t happen under public market pressure. When Advent International took Maxar private, it gave leadership something rare: time and permission to rebuild the business model. Dan is candid about this: “When you go private, you can actually take the time to reformat the business. Getting the sales motion, getting your customers to buy in a different way is not easy.” Today, the company boasts some of that predictability that public markets reward.

3. Acquisition Reform Opens Doors for Commercial Solutions

The recent push for acquisition reform means the government is looking to buy software and modern capabilities differently. Vantor has aligned its business model directly to this shift. Subscription-based solutions fit how the government now wants to buy: modern, updateable, and not locked into elongated contracts.

4. Allied “Sovereignty Panic” Is a Massive Growth Driver

With the US stepping back from certain international commitments, allied nations are suddenly realizing they lack organic intelligence capabilities. They’ve been dependent on American systems for decades. Now they’re scrambling. Dan sees this as Vantor’s biggest growth opportunity: “They’ve gotten ‘wow, we don’t really have our own capabilities.’ You can only build that through commercial. It’s almost impossible to have the funding and time to do it bespoke.” This is true across Europe, Asia-Pacific, and beyond.

5. Geospatial AI Is a Different Problem Than Language AI

Dan’s call for startups challenges the current AI hype: “Start thinking about the spatial side, not necessarily the language side. The mathematics is very different. We’ve kind of solved language with things like ChatGPT. Spatial recognition of change on the ground is a whole different way of thinking about data.”

TIMESTAMPS

[1:19] What brought Dan to RNDF and key takeaways from the day

[2:15] Acquisition reform and how it impacts Vantor's strategy

[3:24] Why Maxar Intelligence became Vantor

[5:42] The role of financial markets

[6:28] Breaking down Vantor's core products and capabilities

[8:08] Driving automation in geospatial intelligence

[8:42] The decision to be more public with capabilities on social media

[10:18] GPS-denied navigation: supporting drones in Ukraine

[10:43] The China satellite photo showdown

[11:43] Non-earth imaging and space domain awareness

[12:05] Current phase of business

[13:36] International expansion and allied sovereignty needs

[14:00] Transitioning to 90% ARR

[15:40] Going private

[17:31] 3D mapping

[19:48] Commercial applications

[21:32] Managing petabytes of data

[24:03] Dan's call for startups

Learn more: vantor.comFollow Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielsmoot/For more Crossing the Valley: youtube.com/@CrossingTheValley

Nick is the CEO and Co-founder of Pryzm. As a software engineer at Palantir Technologies, Nick worked on both Gotham and Foundry platforms, gaining firsthand exposure to building federal contracting systems and understanding the critical intersection of technology and national security missions.

A graduate of Colby College, Nick’s experience selling Palantir’s solutions to DOD and three-letter agencies provided him with intimate knowledge of the procurement pain points that would eventually inspire Pryzm’s founding mission.

Nick is part of a core founding team of four Colby College grads, each of whom experienced the pain of government acquisition: Matt Hawkins (president & COO), Justin Deckert (chief growth officer), and David Istrati (chief technology officer).

About Pryzm

Pryzm emerged from a deceptively simple observation: government procurement was drowning in PDFs and Excel spreadsheets. What started as a document processing solution has evolved into a comprehensive capture and relationship mapping platform that serves the entire defense contracting ecosystem.

The product’s core function is transforming traditional capture processes through intelligent automation and visualization. Their “Orion constellations” feature allows users to map influence networks, parse opportunities, and understand organizational relationships in ways that replace traditional whiteboards and Figma diagrams with dynamic, data-driven insights.

Pryzm serves both commercial defense contractors seeking to win government business and government agencies looking to improve their procurement processes. This dual-market approach creates network effects that strengthen the platform’s value proposition for all users. Their recent Seed funding ($12M+ led by Andreessen Horowitz’s American Dynamism team) puts them on an accelerated path across both commercial and federal segments.

This week, we are spotlighting a new podcast in the defense community, Rebuilding the Fleet.

This new pod covers all things Maritime Autonomy and shipbuilding, featuring repeat guest Austin Gray.

This episode is a discussion between Austin and HII’s Executive Vice President Eric Chewning, a former investment banker, management consultant at McKinsey, and senior advisor to the Secretary of Defense.

All part of our efforts to promote solid content from the next generation of defense disruptors. Have a listen and if you enjoy, we encourage you to follow along and subscribe.

Key Topics of Conversation

* Workforce Innovation and Outsourcing Strategy: HII’s ambitious plan to scale outsourced work from 2 million to 3 million hours annually, and rebuilding of the sub-tier industrial base across America

* Unmanned Systems Leadership: HII’s position as the world’s largest UUV producer, the evolution of the Lionfish program and autonomous launch and recovery capabilities for the Remus vehicle family

* Industrial Base and International Partnerships: Analysis of the Korea-Hyundai partnership and how to balance domestic production with international cooperation

* Technology Integration Challenges: assessing the state of AI implementation in legacy manufacturing environments and change management challenges in traditional shipbuilding operations

* Workforce Development Excellence: HII’s Apprentice School programs and strategies for attracting talent from other industries to maritime

* Defense Policy and Budget Outlook: FY26 defense program priorities, evolution of Navy unmanned surface vessel (USV) strategy, and long-term implications for naval force structure and capabilities

Subscribe to Rebuilding the Fleet at https://www.youtube.com/@RebuildingTheFleet

About Nathan Diller

Nathan Diller brings a rare combination of operational military experience, government innovation leadership, and private sector execution to the defense technology ecosystem. After 22 years of Air Force service as a test pilot, he transitioned to become Director of AFWERX, where he managed and expanded the SBIR budget, helping hundreds of startups navigate government contracting. His subsequent role on the House Appropriations Defense Subcommittee staff gave him legislative perspective on defense budgeting and acquisition. Now, as Head of Aerospace & Defense at Divergent, he’s applying this comprehensive understanding of the ecosystem to scale manufacturing innovation here in America.

About Divergent

Divergent has created the Divergent Adaptive Production System (DAPS), an end-to-end software and hardware production system for industrial digital manufacturing. The company’s approach combines digital engineering for structural optimization, software-driven printable design, efficient 3D printing with optimal part stacking, and robotic assembly. Initially proven in the automotive sector (building the world’s fastest production car at 253 mph), Divergent is now applying this technology to aerospace and defense applications. The company has raised approximately $700 million and maintains partnerships with automotive giants like Aston Martin, Bugatti, and McLaren, as well as defense contractors like General Atomics.

For more on Divergent: https://www.divergent3d.com/

For more Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com

Eric didn’t start as an entrepreneur. After serving 12 years as an infantry officer in the US Army, including deployments during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, he attended Stanford GSB while still on active duty. Exposure to business school thinking, combined with his frontline understanding of technology pain points, set him on an unexpected path. In 2017, he co-founded Key Square Labs with two technical experts, bringing a military veteran’s perspective to solving a critical but unsexy infrastructure problem.

About Key Square Labs

Key Square Labs addressed a scaling challenge that few people outside the defense community understood: the ATAK networking problem. Android Team Awareness Kit (ATAK) had become a critical situational awareness app for military users, but it relied on custom hardware with modified firmware to connect to military networks. This worked fine for a small, elite user base, but as adoption grew to hundreds of thousands of users across the joint force, the custom hardware became a bottleneck—expensive, hard to update, and limiting combat effectiveness.

Key Square’s innovation was reimagining firmware-level capabilities as application-layer software. This meant any Android device could run ATAK networking without custom hardware modifications. The company operated as a bootstrapped three-person team, funded by R&D contracts and direct sales to eight foreign governments. They never raised venture capital, yet they achieved real-world validation, including deploying with the 75th Ranger Regiment during the Afghanistan withdrawal to solve urgent communication challenges. In 2024, Key Square was acquired by Ditto, a Series B commercial company applying edge computing technology to defense problems.

So get out there and enjoy AUSA, CTV readers.

We’ll see you next week!

For more on Ditto: https://www.ditto.com/

Follow Eric: LinkedIn

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Dave Tuttle’s career reads like preparation for exactly one mission: building defense logistics software that actually works at the tactical edge. After commissioning as an Army officer and deploying to Afghanistan, he transitioned to aerospace and defense investment banking on Wall Street, where he learned to decode J-books and understand the intricacies of defense budgeting and color of money. A second stint on active duty at Fort Bragg leading software teams within the JSOC enterprise showed him the power of great engineering paired with operational problems. This led him to Anduril, where he spent several years building their command and control hardware business and developing relationships with world-class engineers. Today, he continues serving in the National Guard while co-founding and leading Rune Technologies. His philosophy: every experience, from selling beverages to analyzing balance sheets to leading special operations software teams, compounds into a unique toolkit for navigating the defense market.

About Rune Technologies

Rune Technologies builds software platforms for military logistics and sustainment operations. Their approach challenges decades of conventional wisdom. While legacy defense contractors have tried to push enterprise cloud software down to tactical units, Rune flipped the architecture entirely. Their platform starts at the tactical edge and works upward, recognizing that military logistics is inherently a bottom-up warfighting function. The company focuses on the Army and Marine Corps initially, tackling what Dave calls “the gnarliest problem”—how to sustain a 90,000-soldier force in near-peer conflict. Beyond simple dashboards and data visualization, Rune emphasizes automated course of action recommendations and machine-paced decision-making that enables logisticians to operate at the speed required in contested environments. The company raised a seed round led by Caffeinated Capital, achieved product-market fit in nine months (half their projected timeline), and recently closed a Series A led by Human Capital. Their recent announcements include a Marine Corps pilot contract through the Warfighting Lab, an Army CRADA focused on logistics data standards, and investment from In-Q-Tel.

For more Rune: https://www.runetech.co/

For more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

Follow Dave: LinkedIn

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Jeff Cole is the CEO and co-founder of Hidden Level, bringing 20 years of experience developing radar and sensing technology for defense, intelligence, and commercial customers. Before founding Hidden Level, Jeff worked at Saab and SRC (a not-for-profit defense company), where he developed cutting-edge systems for customers including the Army, FAA, and NASA. He also collaborated with commercial giants like Google, Apple, Disney, and Amazon on early drone delivery initiatives, working directly with Astro Teller and Sergei Brin on what would become Wing.

Born and raised in Syracuse, New York—an epicenter for radar and electronic warfare technology—Jeff built his expertise in an ecosystem surrounded by companies like Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and Saab. This background gave him rare insight into both the technical challenges of advanced sensing systems and the procurement realities of government customers. At SRC, he co-founded Griffin Sensors, a wholly-owned subsidiary focused on commercial applications, which shaped his vision for a commercial-first defense company.

Jeff’s approach combines technical depth with an entrepreneurial mindset learned from working with fast-moving commercial partners. His guiding principle: “If it wasn’t hard, it wouldn’t be worth doing.”

About Hidden Level

Hidden Level provides airspace awareness through passive radar and RF sensing technology that detects objects ranging from small, non-emitting drones to fighter jets and balloons. The company’s vertically integrated approach means they design and build everything in-house—software, firmware, phased arrays, and mechanical systems—using a modular “Lego” architecture that enables rapid deployment and reconfiguration.

Founded with a commercial-first strategy, Hidden Level initially focused on enabling safe drone delivery and urban air mobility through subscription-based airspace monitoring services. Early customers included NASA, Joby Aviation (formerly Uber Elevate), and commercial enterprises. This commercial foundation proved critical when transitioning to defense applications, as the technology was designed from the start for exportability, interoperability, and rapid scaling.

The company’s breakout moment came through a partnership with the U.S. Army. After starting with small SBIR contracts, Hidden Level progressed through an IDIQ vehicle with Booz Allen Hamilton as lead systems integrator, won APFIT funding in May 2023, and achieved program of record status under urgent capabilities in January 2024—just 18 months from initial prototype to fielded production systems. During the December 2024 drone crisis in New York, Hidden Level deployed sensors at Stewart International Guard Base in under 24 hours, enabling the apprehension of unauthorized drone operators within minutes.

The company has raised over $100 million from investors including Quest Ventures, DFJ, Costanoa Ventyres, Washington Harbor, Lockheed Martin Ventures, and Booz Allen Ventures. With 130+ employees and growing, Hidden Level is scaling both commercial infrastructure deployments across U.S. cities and defense applications globally.

Key Takeaways

1. Commercial-first beats defense-to-commercial for dual-use companies

Hidden Level’s approach didn’t take defense technology and try to commercialize it; instead, they built with commercial intent from day one and then adapt to defense needs. Hidden Level designed for subscription models, exportability, and interoperability—requirements that made government adoption easier, not harder. The modular architecture that enables rapid deployment in commercial settings (like the 24-hour Stewart AFB installation) directly translated to defense value. This approach avoids the vendor lock-in and compliance baggage that makes defense-to-commercial transitions so difficult.

2. Reputation and relationships create momentum that capital alone cannot

Before Hidden Level existed, Jeff and his team had delivered advanced radar systems to demanding customers for two decades. This track record meant NASA, Joby, and Army customers believed in their ability to execute even when working from a basement. When first investor Tom Moss tripled his commitment within 48 hours and introduced Jeff to other VCs, it wasn’t just about the technology—it was about backing a team with proven delivery capability. For defense tech founders, past performance and domain expertise can be more valuable than a perfect pitch deck.

3. APFIT and other bridge funds are really important to bridge the valley of death

Hidden Level used small SBIR awards to maintain customer relationships, moved to an IDIQ through partnership with Booz Allen Hamilton, then leveraged APFIT funding to procure systems when the Army customer had validated demand but lacked budget. This represents a careful understanding of which funding mechanisms match which stage of technical maturity and customer pull. APFIT worked because Hidden Level had already proven the technology and had an evangelizing customer; it wouldn’t have worked two years earlier.

4. Partnerships with primes require clear-eyed understanding of incentives and terms

Jeff’s advice on working with integrators like Booz Allen Hamilton and strategic investors like Lockheed Martin is notably nuanced. These relationships can be powerful but require understanding contractual vehicles (FAR parts 12 vs. 15), IP ownership, colors of money, and compliance requirements upfront. The relationship with Booz Allen worked because roles were clear—they were the lead systems integrator doing C2, Hidden Level provided sensors and integrated into their architecture. Going in eyes-wide-open about what the partnership actually entails prevents later frustration about doors not opening or unexpected IP constraints.

5. Intentional product architecture enables speed at scale

Hidden Level’s “Lego modular” design philosophy is a strategic choice that enabled their 18-month prototype-to-production timeline and 24-hour deployment capability. Components designed for one product line work across different applications, reducing development time for new variants when the Army wanted a vehicle-mounted system half the original size. This modularity also supports the dual-use model: the same core technology serves commercial airspace monitoring subscriptions and military counter-drone applications. Speed in defense tech isn’t about cutting corners—it’s about making architectural choices that create optionality and reduce integration friction from the start.

For more on Hidden Level: Website | LinkedIn

For more Crossing the Valley: Substack | YouTube | LinkedIn

Follow Jeff: LinkedIn

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About Jonathan Rowntree

Jonathan Rowntree brings three decades of materials commercialization experience to his role as CEO of Niron Magnetics. His background spans scaling technologies across consumer electronics, industrial applications, automotive, and defense sectors. Before joining Niron in 2022, Rowntree led global businesses and specialized in taking new material technologies from development to market-scale production. His experience includes both successful ventures and instructive failures in solar thermal materials and heat transfer applications. Rowntree describes his 30-year career as an "apprenticeship" that prepared him to tackle the unique challenges of scaling breakthrough magnet technology during a critical geopolitical moment.

About Niron Magnetics

Founded in 2013 and spun out of University of Minnesota research, Niron Magnetics has developed the world's most powerful rare earth-free permanent magnet using iron nitride technology. The company's breakthrough material delivers 2.4 Tesla magnetic strength compared to 1.4 Tesla for traditional rare earth magnets, while using abundant materials (iron and nitrogen) that can be sourced anywhere. Niron has raised over $150 million in development funding and secured strategic investments from automotive OEMs (GM, Stellantis), tier-one suppliers (Magna, Allison), and technology companies (Samsung). The company serves multiple markets including audio, industrial motors, automotive, and defense applications. Their first commercial manufacturing facility breaks ground in fall 2025 in Minnesota, with plans for global expansion to meet tripling demand by 2030.

For more Crossing the Valley: https://www.linkedin.com/company/crossing-the-valley

For more on Niron: https://www.nironmagnetics.com/

Dan combines deep operational experience with strategic thinking about technological competition. Starting his career as a lawyer at Goodwin Proctor, Wright made the transition to technology by joining AppDynamics as one of the early employees, eventually becoming COO. He then served as CEO of DataRobot before co-founding Armada in 2022.

Dan combines three critical elements that prepared him for building Armada: legal expertise that taught him to understand complex regulatory environments, operational experience scaling enterprise software companies, and a data-centric worldview developed across three technology companies focused on extracting value from information.

About Armada

Armada has positioned itself as "the hyperscaler for the edge" - building distributed cloud infrastructure for the 70% of the world not served by traditional data centers. The company's core product line consists of modular data centers called Galleons, ranging from suitcase-sized units (Beacon) to megawatt-scale facilities (Leviathan).

The company's strategy centers on three technological convergences: Starlink bringing fiber-quality connectivity to remote locations, the explosive growth of edge data generation (75% of all data by 2025), and the rise of AI capabilities. Armada combines these trends into a full-stack platform that processes data locally rather than sending it to centralized cloud facilities.

Operating across 70+ countries with over 10,000 connected assets, Armada serves both defense customers (including active work with the US Navy) and industrial clients in energy, mining, and manufacturing. The company has raised over $200 million from investors including Founders Fund, Lux Capital, and Microsoft, with their latest $131 million round announced alongside their "American AI Dominance" strategic framework.

To learn more about Armada: https://www.armada.ai/

Follow Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wrightdh

Follow Crossing the Valley: https://www.linkedin.com/company/crossing-the-valley

About the Guests

Rylan Hamilton is Co-founder and CEO of Blue Water Autonomy, bringing a unique combination of naval service and commercial robotics expertise. After his Navy career, Hamilton spent years in the commercial robotics space focusing on warehouse and logistics automation, giving him deep understanding of both military requirements and commercial-scale robotics deployment.

Austin Gray is Co-founder of Blue Water Autonomy and a prominent voice in the maritime autonomy and defense technology movement. Gray combines operational understanding of defense acquisition challenges with strategic thinking about how commercial innovation can reshape military capabilities.

About Blue Water Autonomy

Blue Water Autonomy is developing medium unmanned surface vessels specifically designed for U.S. Navy operations. Based outside Boston, the company is building on the region's robotics expertise, drawing talent from successful companies like Amazon Robotics and iRobot.

Their vessels are approximately half a football field in length - large enough for cross-ocean operations but small enough to be manufactured at dozens of mid-tier shipyards rather than requiring major naval facilities. The company focuses on creating "attritable" platforms that balance capability with cost-effectiveness, designed around cost-to-kill ratios rather than pure survivability.

The team has grown rapidly from stealth to over 50 employees, including key hires like COO Tim Glinatsis (20+ years in naval shipbuilding) and ship designer Ryan Maatta (formerly on a DARPA autonomous ship program).

About Jon Gruen

Jon brings a unique combination of operational experience and defense industry knowledge to his role as CEO of Fortem Technologies. After graduating from the U.S. Naval Academy, he served 10 years on active duty as a Navy SEAL, including multiple deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq during Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom.

His transition to the private sector began in 2007 when he joined the Navy Reserve while simultaneously building his commercial career. He spent 11 years at Lockheed Martin learning acquisition processes and big program management, while concurrently commanding unmanned aerial system units in the reserves for four years. This dual perspective gave him front-row seats to both the traditional defense contracting world and the emerging defense innovation ecosystem.

Before joining Fortem, Gruen worked as an operational consultant helping multiple aerospace and defense startups navigate the valley of death. He took the helm at Fortem in 2022.

About Fortem Technologies

Founded in 2016 by Adam Robertson, Fortem Technologies began as a radar company leveraging Robertson's decades of experience developing military radars, particularly for IED detection during the Wars on Terror. Robertson's breakthrough was creating an architecture that enabled very low size, weight, power, and cost (SWAP-C) radar systems.

The company's evolution accelerated when DARPA recognized the potential of their small radar technology and suggested mounting it on drones in 2018. This led to Fortem developing comprehensive counter-UAS solutions spanning the entire detect-to-mitigate spectrum:

* Ground-based and airborne radars with edge computing and AI

* Command and control software integrating multiple sensors

* A family of counter-UAS drones using various effectors (nets, explosives, future high-powered microwave)

* Man-portable systems that fit in commercial trucks for tactical mobility

Fortem has been operationally deployed in Ukraine for over three years, working with border guards and other units while providing real-time intelligence on electronic warfare environments to U.S. government agencies. They've also developed significant homeland security capabilities, becoming the only approved kinetic solution for safely removing drone threats in the continental United States.

For more on Fortem: fortemtech.com

For more Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com

About the Guests

Nik Seetharaman and Grace Clemente represent perhaps the most elite defense tech pedigree possible. Between them, they've touched the holy trinity of modern defense juggernauts: Palantir, SpaceX, and Anduril.

Nik's journey began in special operations before transitioning to the private sector. At Palantir, he learned the art of aggressive execution and brutal feedback loops that forge high-performing teams. His stint at SpaceX reinforced the culture of rapid iteration and learning from failure. But it was at Anduril where he faced his defining challenge: becoming the first security engineer at a company scaling from 100 to 4,000 people while building weapon systems under constant foreign adversary attention.

Grace built her expertise in the most sensitive areas of corporate security—insider threat and counter-espionage programs at both SpaceX and Anduril. She witnessed firsthand the daily reality of nation-state adversaries attempting to penetrate critical infrastructure and defense technology companies. Her experience shaped a deep understanding of what real security looks like versus the theater of compliance checkboxes.

Their pain points weren't academic—they were personal and professional crises. Waking up at 3 AM to alerts, logging into 40+ different security tools, spending hours gathering context for simple decisions, and watching talented security professionals burn out from cognitive overload and poor tooling.

About Wraithwatch

Wraithwatch emerged from a simple but profound question: What would we have wanted to gift ourselves as lone security engineers told to "protect the company" with 100,000 possible next steps?

The company addresses a fundamental market shift in defense technology. Security has evolved from a cost center to a revenue generator. Defense companies literally cannot sign government contracts without robust security controls, making cybersecurity teams direct contributors to revenue generation rather than overhead expenses.

Wraithwatch's core innovation is a unified security platform that breaks down the data silos plaguing modern cybersecurity. Instead of forcing teams to operate 40+ point solutions, Wraithwatch creates a "digital twin" of customer environments and runs thousands of attack simulations to identify the most critical vulnerabilities and provide actionable remediation steps.

Their "gain of function" approach uses advanced AI offensive capabilities to continuously improve defensive strategies—a co-evolution process that mirrors how nation-state adversaries actually operate. The platform deploys in as little as 22 minutes and immediately begins autonomous threat modeling without executing actual attacks against production systems.

The user experience philosophy is radical for cybersecurity: make defenders feel like Tony Stark commanding an intelligent system rather than helpless operators drowning in alerts. This includes features like AI-generated daily briefs with voice narration, 3D network visualization, and one-click remediation capabilities.

For more on Wraithwatch: https://www.wraithwatch.com/

Follow Nik: On X | LinkedIn

Follow Grace: On X | LinkedIn

Follow Noah: On X | LinkedIn

James Boyd is the archetype of a mission-driven founder. Born in California but raised in the UK, his trajectory changed completely on September 11, 2001, when he was a Stanford computer science student. Instead of following his peers into consulting or investment banking, Boyd made the contrarian decision to enlist in Army Special Forces—a choice that would define his entire career.

Boyd was in the First Special Forces Group for about three years. It was during these deployments that he experienced firsthand the friction between cutting-edge intelligence systems and the analog processes that dominated day-to-day military operations. This experience led him to Palantir, where he spent nearly seven years building and deploying data analytics platforms across special operations units.

The combination of Stanford computer science education, Special Forces operational experience, and Palantir's high-velocity startup culture created a unique skill set: deep technical capabilities paired with intimate understanding of military operations and bureaucratic navigation. This intersection would prove invaluable when founding Adyton.

About Adyton

Adyton was founded in early 2020 with a simple but powerful thesis: while defense organizations had invested heavily in enterprise systems and data analytics, the actual warfighters—the people doing maintenance, training, and operations—remained trapped in analog processes using paper notebooks, clipboards, and manual data entry.

The company's flagship product, Adyton Operations Kit (AOK), transforms these analog workflows into seamless digital experiences optimized for mobile devices. Rather than requiring new government-furnished equipment, AOK leverages the smartphones that service members already carry, addressing everything from personnel accountability to digital asset management to training coordination.

Adyton's growth trajectory has been impressive: 500% growth in 2024, deployment across 39 of 59 Army Brigade Combat Teams, adoption by seven Special Forces groups, and recent expansion to multiple Navy aircraft carriers. The company achieved this scale through organic, bottom-up adoption—end users demanding the product rather than top-down procurement mandates.

Follow James Boyd: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-alexander-boyd/

Learn more about Adyton: https://www.adytonpbc.com/

Subscribe for more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

About Tony Frazier

Tony Frazier joined LeoLabs as CEO after a distinguished career scaling technology companies in complex government markets. At Maxar Technologies, he served as Executive Vice President and General Manager of Earth Intelligence, overseeing partnerships with over 60 allies worldwide and supporting critical missions from humanitarian assistance to the Ukraine conflict. His earlier experience includes leadership roles at Cisco Systems and Infor, plus startup experience during the late 90s internet boom. Tony's unique combination of product expertise, P&L management, and deep government market knowledge made him the ideal leader to scale LeoLabs from innovative technology to mission-critical infrastructure.

About LeoLabs

Founded in 2016, LeoLabs commercialized radar technology from Stanford Research Institute to create the world's most comprehensive space domain awareness platform. The company operates a globally distributed network of 11 radars across 7 countries, tracking over 24,000 space objects daily and providing persistent monitoring services to government and commercial customers. LeoLabs has raised over $140 million through Series B funding and serves a diversified customer base spanning US government (33% of revenue), international governments (60%), and commercial space operators (7%). With recent wins including a $60 million STRATFI award and $4 million TACFI award, the company is positioned to scale its next-generation "seeker" class radar technology as space activity explodes toward 100,000+ trackable objects in the coming decade.

For more about LeoLabs: https://leolabs.space/

For more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

Ross Coffman represents a rare breed in defense innovation - a senior military leader who transitioned directly from the Pentagon to startup leadership. During his final seven years in the Army, Lt Gen Coffman was deep in technology, serving as director of the next generation combat vehicle cross-functional team before becoming deputy commanding general for combat development at Army Futures Command from 2022 to 2024.

His portfolio at Army Futures Command spanned satellite payloads to vaccines for monkeypox - giving him a unique perspective on how the military evaluates and adopts new technology. After 35 years of military service, Lt Gen Coffman joined Forward Edge-AI as president, a company building cybersecurity products for the quantum age.

About Colonel Dan Cormier

Colonel Cormier brings the operational perspective as both a seasoned warfighter and current educator at the Naval Leadership and Ethics Center in Newport. His focus on senior leader development provides crucial insight into how bureaucratic processes shape military thinking, particularly the tension between compliance-based junior leadership and the dynamic thinking required at senior levels.

About Forward Edge AI

Forward Edge AI is an early-stage startup focused on cybersecurity for the quantum age. The company's core values align with national defense, public safety, and national security - a mission alignment that drew Coffman from his military career to startup leadership.

For more on Ross Coffman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ross-coffman

For more on Daniel Cormier: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-j-cormier

For more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

About the Experts

Becca Wasser and Phil Sheers from the Center for New American Security (CNAS) authored "From Production Lines to Front Lines: Revitalizing the U.S. Defense Industrial Base for Future Great Power Conflict." Wasser specializes in defense strategy and great power competition, while Sheers focuses on defense budgets and acquisition policy. Their research combines strategic analysis with practical policy recommendations.

About CNAS

The Center for New American Security is a leading defense policy think tank that bridges the gap between government and industry through rigorous research and strategic analysis. CNAS's defense industrial base work examines how America's manufacturing capacity intersects with national security strategy, and makes recommendations for policymakers and industry leaders on navigating the transition from “Pax Americana” to great power competition.

Dr. Alex Miller serves as the Chief Technology Officer of the United States Army, a position that oversees technology modernization across one of the world's largest and most complex organizations. An intelligence professional by trade, Miller was elevated to this strategic role to drive the Army Transformation Initiative—the most significant military modernization effort in decades. Working directly with Army Chief of Staff General Randy George and Secretary Dan Driscoll, he manages everything from organic industrial base operations (e.g., production of ammunition for the Joint Force) to next-generation command and control systems.

About the Army Transformation Initiative

The Army Transformation Initiative represents a fundamental shift in how the military acquires, tests, and fields technology. Directed by an April 30th memo from the Secretary of Defense, the initiative focuses on two critical areas: divesting outdated systems and investing in war-winning capabilities. The program encompasses everything from holistic soldier fitness to counter-drone warfare, magazine depth for missile systems, and close combat force equipment. What makes this transformation unique is its emphasis on real soldier testing through the "Transforming in Contact" program, where three brigades serve as beta testers for new technologies in demanding training environments. Rather than relying on contractor demonstrations, the Army is letting soldiers determine what works in actual field conditions—from Louisiana swamps to freezing German winters.

Timestamps:

[00:01:33] Army 250th birthday celebration and family military legacy

[00:03:15] Role and scope of Army CTO - "The Army does everything, everywhere, all the time"

[00:05:51] Army Transformation Initiative focus areas and modernization priorities

[00:07:45] Counter-drone warfare: "This generation's IED flying at 100 mph"

[00:10:01] "Transforming in Contact" - fixing broken Pentagon procurement process

[00:14:02] Learning from ABMS failures and structuring top-of-funnel experimentation

[00:18:30] The divestment challenge: divesting old equipment and congressional battles

[00:20:40] RQ7 Shadow case study: $77M for sub-50% readiness rates

[00:22:30] Humvee divestment after 40 years and 103,000 vehicles

[00:24:45] Detachment 201 deep dive: Big Tech executives commissioning as Lieutenant Colonels

[00:33:28] Final thoughts: Building irreversible momentum beyond personality-driven change

Check out the full interview on YouTube and follow Crossing the Valley on LinkedIn!

About Brian Drake & Bill Wall

Brian Drake serves as Federal Chief Technology Officer at Accrete AI, bringing deep government intelligence experience from his time at Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA). Bill Wall leads federal operations, managing the complex dance between classified and unclassified work across government contracts. Together, they've built a successful dual-use AI company that serves both commercial and government markets effectively.

About Accrete AI

Accrete AI develops decision analytics platforms that process massive information flows to identify patterns and predict outcomes. Their technology began in the commercial music industry, helping record labels identify viral talent from millions of social media posts. This same capability now serves government customers for information operations, supply chain risk assessment, and cognitive warfare applications. The company recently secured a $15M strategic financing agreement from the Air Force.

For more on Accrete: www.accrete.ai

For more Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com

Brian Streem is the founder and CEO of Vermeer, a company building vision-based navigation systems for GPS-denied environments. His unconventional path began at NYU film school, where a screenwriting teacher taught him that good stories are "both unpredictable and inevitable" – a principle that would define his entrepreneurial journey. Streem became one of the first legal drone cinematographers in America, working on Fast & Furious movies and Steven Spielberg films before pivoting to defense tech.

About Vermeer

Vermeer develops hardware-software systems that enable drones to navigate without GPS by using computer vision and locally stored terrain databases. Their solution combines cameras, NVIDIA chips, and neural networks to match real-time imagery with pre-loaded 3D maps, creating jam-proof navigation for military applications. The company has secured millions in product sales and works with tier-one defense contractors across the US, Europe, and Asia.

Key Takeaways

1. Customer Discovery at Scale Beats Perfect Pedigree: The story that defines Brian’s hustler ethos takes place in a cabin on a lake during COVID. Brian scraped 50,000 .mil emails for DoD personnel, emailed every one, and conducted over 2,000 individual conversations to understand the market before he started his business. This aggressive customer discovery revealed that GPS-denied navigation was the #1 problem across multiple military branches. Customer discovery is the way. In his own words: "Don't build a goddamn thing. Speak to a thousand people who have a lot of money in your market and ask them what their biggest problem is."

2. Naivety Can Be Your Greatest Weapon: Brian’s lack of defense experience became an advantage. While experts said solutions already existed, he asked simple questions: "If it exists, where is it? Why do they tell me it's still a problem?" His outsider perspective led him to pursue solutions that insiders had dismissed, ultimately winning five Phase II SBIRs in his first year.

3. Test in Real Conditions or Risk Building Fantasy Products: Instead of raising venture capital, Streem moved to Ukraine for 14 months to test his product in actual combat conditions. "There's no point of wartime technology if you don't fight in a war," he argues. This real-world testing revealed critical issues – like the challenge of testing $30,000 systems on one-way drones – that he simply wouldn’t have learned as quickly back home in the comforts of the United States.

4. Services Revenue Can Fund Product Development: Vermeer is not Brian’s first startup. He previously funded software development by running a drone cinematography service company, which generated millions in revenue. But like many founders who start with services and aim to pivot to products, he hit a wall — he captured most of the Hollywood market, and realized that he couldn’t scale himself as fast as he wanted to grow his business. At the same time, he saw that "investors would rather fund your product from zero" than hear about “distracting services revenue.” They wanted him to focus.

5. Solve the Hardest Version of the Problem First: Brian discovered that in some ways, "Hollywood drone cinematography is actually harder than military drone missions" because of their highly specific aesthetic requirements and demands around precision. Learning to fly for Hollywood actually made it easier to handle the military applications. Just like Tesla started with the high-end car, and SpaceX started with bespoke missions, solving the complex use case first created competitive advantages that have proven sticky.

Brian is a star in the making — honestly, listen to this on 1.5x if you have to, but don’t delete this email. You can thank me later.

For more on Vermeer: getvermeer.com

For more on Brian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianstreem/

For more Crossing the Valley: Valleycrossers.com

About our Guests

Repeat guests from Episode 43, Lt Colonel Tommy Burns and Lt Colonel Aaron Ritzema are completing their tours with the 2nd Multi-Domain Task Force in Germany, where they've spearheaded some of the Army's most innovative experimentation efforts. Both officers bring operational experience to the challenge of transitioning emerging technologies from concept to battlefield capability.

As they prepare to transition to new roles, they re-joined Crossing the Valley to share their experience leading the Arcane Thunder exercise, and to give a candid look into what worked, and what didn’t, as we look toward the future.

Key Takeaways

1. Network Architecture Enables All Other Capabilities

The exercise's biggest breakthrough was achieving real-time data sharing between operations in Poland and Arizona. This network integration became the foundation for every other success, enabling live video feeds across continents and coordinated multi-domain operations. Without robust network architecture, individual technologies remain isolated capabilities rather than integrated systems.

2. Honest Assessment Accelerates Innovation Cycles

Despite multiple drone crashes and weather setbacks, the team gave themselves a "passing grade" because they proved the core digital signal flow concept. This honest evaluation—celebrating successes while acknowledging failures—enabled rapid iteration and course correction. Organizations that hide failures slow their own progress.

3. Training Systems Must Evolve With Technology

The unit broke Army records by launching 10 micro-HABs in one day (previous record was 5) because they developed deliberate training progressions from individual to collective tasks. Their success came from building human proficiency alongside technological capability.

4. Performance Standards Need Development for New Capabilities

Unlike traditional military capabilities with established time and accuracy standards, multi-domain operations lack comparative benchmarks. "We still don't even really know what good looks like yet," Burns explained. Building evaluation criteria and collecting baseline performance data must happen in parallel with capability development.

5. Human Judgment Remains Critical in Automated Systems

Even with sensors automatically connecting to shooters across domains, empowered junior leaders remain essential. The exercise reinforced that technology should enhance human decision-making rather than replace it. "There's absolutely room for empowered junior leaders to execute within commander's intent," Ritzema emphasized, highlighting the enduring importance of the "humans over hardware" philosophy.

For more on Arcane Thunder 25: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/496977/exercise-arcane-thunder-25-press-release

For more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

About Tory Bruno

Tory joined United Launch Alliance as CEO in August 2014, bringing four decades of aerospace experience and a track record of over 400 rocket launches. Previously at Lockheed Martin, he led programs in hypersonics, directed energy, and missile defense while running one of the company's largest and most profitable business units. Bruno initially resisted the ULA opportunity, preferring to work on critical national security technologies, until his wife (also a rocket scientist) convinced him that taking on the ULA mission would be too important for the nation’s space capabilities to pass up.

Bruno is known for his technical depth, strategic foresight, and unconventional approach to business challenges. He is a steady hand in stormy waters. The contrast to his fellow space executives at SpaceX and Blue Origin is quickly apparent.

About United Launch Alliance

United Launch Alliance was formed in 2006 as a joint venture between Boeing and Lockheed Martin, combining their Delta and Atlas rocket programs. Created to solve a national security crisis when both companies threatened to exit unprofitable space launch, ULA became a "monopoly of service" focused on mission success over commercial competition.

When Bruno arrived in 2014, ULA faced existential threats: Senator McCain had outlawed their primary Atlas rocket by 2017, SpaceX was emerging as serious competition, and the company culture was unprepared for competitive markets. The 50-50 ownership structure prevented traditional equity financing, requiring creative approaches to fund development of the new Vulcan rocket.

Today, ULA maintains a 100% mission success rate, has achieved National Security Space Launch certification for Vulcan, and holds major contracts including a multi-billion dollar government award and 47 launches for Amazon's Kuiper constellation.

For more on the United Launch Alliance, visit their website at https://www.ulalaunch.com/

Tory recently launched the Burn Sequence Podcast - you can check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2XFxZO6iLo

Please subscribe and share with friends — we’d love to keep doing this sort of in-depth, on-site work if you enjoy it!

Joshua Steinman brings a unique combination of operational military experience, senior policy leadership, and entrepreneurial drive to the challenge of securing America's industrial infrastructure. A retired naval officer, Josh was one of the original "10 heretics" tasked by the Chief of Naval Operations to find asymmetric opportunities for the Navy - an effort that helped catalyze today's defense tech ecosystem.

During the first Trump administration, Steinman served as Senior Director for Cybersecurity on the National Security Council staff, where he was responsible for all cyber, telecom, crypto, and supply chain policy. This role gave him intimate knowledge of the vulnerabilities in America's critical infrastructure and the sophisticated threats targeting these systems.

After leaving government service, Josh co-founded Galvanick with Brandon Park (former Amazon global OT cybersecurity lead) and Feliks Pleszczynski (hedge fund trader). The team brings together expertise from military operations, large-scale industrial cybersecurity, and zero-failure financial environments.

About Galvanick

Founded just over three years ago, Galvanick focuses on securing operational technology (OT) - the industrial control systems that manage physical processes in manufacturing facilities, power plants, and other critical infrastructure. Unlike traditional IT cybersecurity, OT security requires deep understanding of industrial processes and the unique constraints of manufacturing environments.

The company has developed a platform that provides real-time visibility and automated threat detection for industrial control systems. Rather than requiring defenders to manually correlate data across multiple systems - a process that can take hours, days, or weeks - Galvanick automatically generates comprehensive investigations in real-time.

With a lean team of 14 people, Galvanick already protects manufacturing facilities for some of the world's largest companies. Their platform can be deployed in as little as 2.5 hours and operates with the passive monitoring approach required in zero-failure industrial environments.

The company represents a commercial-first approach to a fundamentally dual-use problem. While their current customers are primarily large manufacturers, the same vulnerabilities exist across defense industrial base companies and military installations.

For more on Galvanick: https://www.galvanick.com/

Last week, we connected with the founders of EdgeRunner AI, Aurum Systems, and Distributed Spectrum before they made their way to Tampa for SOF Week.

In this follow-up episode, we hear how they performed.

Edgerunner AI: From Education to Validation

Original Objective: Meet "shot callers" (decision-makers at multiple levels) and educate the market about edge AI capabilities that operate without internet connectivity.

Results Achieved:

* Secured high-level meetings with SOCOM J3

* Generated immediate follow-up meetings scheduled in Tampa

* Validated that operators were "blown away" by internet-free AI capabilities

* Announced Series A funding during the event

* Demonstrated product at both their own booth and through Second Front Systems partnership

Key Learning: "Try to line up as many meetings as you can. Let people know you're going to be there and ask them to set aside time." The educational component worked—operators immediately wanted the technology once they understood it was possible.

Evolution: The company is moving from "zero to one" in their market presence and aspires to use conference presence as a yard stick as they scale up (“we want to be on the big stage right next to Anduril.”)

Aurum Systems: Discovery Through Direct Engagement

Original Objective: Achieve a "public launch," validate technology with operators, and receive initial feedback from acquisition professionals.

Results Achieved:

* Received validation that they were "20 to 30% ahead of anything else we've seen" from acquisition professionals

* Discovered entirely new use cases for their 3D reconstruction technology through direct operator conversations

* Successfully demonstrated their Atlas platform for UAV autonomy

* Participated in pitch competitions and secured good booth traffic in Accelerator Alley

Key Learning: The value of unexpected discovery—Jason noted that "everyone sees [our products] in a different light" based on their specific problem sets. This led to previously unconsidered applications of their technology.

Resource Constraint: Myles identified a critical limitation: "We had us and one of our coworkers helping us. That was still not enough." They plan to bring more team members next year to maximize event value.

Distributed Spectrum: Operational Efficiency at Scale

Original Objective: Connect with three stakeholder groups—acquisition teams, operators, and potential partners—while maintaining operational flexibility.

Results Achieved:

* Conducted real-time product demonstrations that led to immediate UI improvements

* Received specific technical feedback that refined their user interface presentation

* Maintained strategic flexibility without booth commitments

* Successfully navigated the event solo due to last-minute team constraints

Key Learning: Alex Wulff's approach of finding "good places to sit down with people to actually have a real conversation" proved more effective than previous years' ad hoc lobby meetings.

Strategic Evolution: As a more mature company (third SOF Week attendance), they're considering booth space once they have "enough resources beyond just me and my co-founders."

For more on the companies:

* Aurum Systems: https://aurum.systems/

* Distributed Spectrum: https://www.distributedspectrum.com/

* EdgeRunner AI: https://www.edgerunnerai.com/

In this special edition of Crossing the Valley, we sit down with three promising defense technology companies ahead of their trip to SOF Week—one of the defense industry's premier events. Each company represents a different stage in the journey across the "valley of death" from concept to production, providing valuable insights for founders navigating the defense ecosystem.

About Edgerunner AI

Company Overview: Edgerunner AI is building domain-specific AI agents for warfighters that can operate without internet connectivity. Their technology enables military personnel to access ChatGPT-like capabilities that are tailored to their specific military occupational specialty (MOS), all while functioning in disconnected, degraded, intermittent, and limited bandwidth (DDIL) environments.

Founders:

* Tyler Saltsman: Former Army logistician who served in Operation Atlantic Resolve. Previously at AWS where he first encountered Stability AI, helping to build their infrastructure before eventually joining them.

* Colton Malkerson: Former Capitol Hill staffer for Speakers Boehner and Ryan, Stanford Business School graduate, and held positions at AWS and Stability AI.

Company Stage: Edgerunner AI has secured a CRADA (Cooperative Research and Development Agreement) with the Air Force Research Lab (AFRL) to power NIPR GPT. They recently closed their Series A funding (announced during SOF Week) and partnered with Second Front Systems. The company is less than a year old.

About Aurum Systems

Company Overview: Aurum Systems is developing the Atlas platform, designed to transform existing UAVs into independent intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, and targeting assets. Their software works completely at the edge and in the field, enabling operators to complete missions autonomously with minimal input.

Founders:

* Jason Ashton: Founder and CEO with a background in robotics and self-driving technology.

* Myles Spencer: Founder and CTO with product development experience at Google (YouTube's data warehouse) and Wayfair.

Company Stage: Aurum is approximately one year old, having raised a small angel round in September 2023. They recently demonstrated their technology publicly for the first time at the Avon Park Air Force Range for US SOCOM. They currently operate as a two-person team.

About Distributed Spectrum

Company Overview: Distributed Spectrum focuses on helping warfighters understand what's happening across the radio spectrum. Their technology adds intelligent software to existing hardware systems, enabling both trained experts and frontline operators to identify adversary communications and detect jamming without requiring expensive equipment or specialized training.

Founders:

* Alex Wulff: Co-founder and CEO with a background in electrical engineering and a deep fascination with radio waves. Started the company with Ben Harpe (COO) and Isaac Struhl (CTO) while in college at Harvard.

Company Stage: Approximately 4.5 years since founding, with significant momentum since 2022 after graduation. They've raised a Series A round of $25 million, secured over $7 million in DoD contracts, and their RF sensing platform is already deployed in Ukraine and with U.S. special operators. The company currently has 16 employees.

About our Advisors

Dave Rolen is a combat developer for US Army Special Operations Command. He identifies, captures, and develops resourcing strategies for emerging requirements and Program Objective Memorandum (POM) products for key emerging capabilities.

Scott Moore is a recently retired Green Beret, most recently serving as the R&D NCOIC, and previously Director of Operations with the 3rd Special Forces Group. He’s now with SBIR Advisors and brings a wealth of recent insider knowledge after many years as the target customer and planning industry engagement events.

To hear how the show went, tune in next week for Part II of this special episode!

For more about the companies:

* Aurum Systems: https://aurum.systems/

* Distributed Spectrum: https://www.distributedspectrum.com/

* EdgeRunner AI: https://www.edgerunnerai.com/

About our Guests

Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Burns serves as the Deputy Commander of the 2nd Multi-Domain Task Force (MDTF), headquartered in Germany in support of US Army Europe and Africa. With a background in traditional Army operations, Burns brings a task force-level perspective on how new capabilities need to integrate into joint warfighting concepts.

Lieutenant Colonel Aaron Ritzema commands the 2nd Multi-Domain Effects Battalion (MDEB), which serves as the primary sensing and non-kinetic effects arm of the task force. His battalion comprises specialized companies focused on space, cyber, electronic warfare, and unmanned systems. Ritzema's role involves organizing, training, and equipping soldiers across multiple technical specialties that historically have been siloed across different parts of the Army.

Together, these officers represent the operational leadership of one of the Army's most innovative organizational constructs - a unit specifically designed to counter anti-access/area denial (A2/AD) capabilities that potential adversaries have developed to keep U.S. forces at bay.

About the Multi-Domain Task Force

Established through Army Chief of Staff General James McConville's 2021 vision paper "Army Multi-Domain Transformation," the MDTF concept represents the Army's primary organizational innovation for multi-domain operations. The Army is currently building five such task forces, with three currently established - two focused on the Indo-Pacific and the 2nd MDTF focused on Europe.

The 2nd MDTF, activated in late 2021, consists of a headquarters element, an intelligence/cyberspace/electronic warfare/space detachment, and a brigade support company. At its core is the Multi-Domain Effects Battalion, which is organized into specialized companies:

* A signal company providing mission command networks

* A military intelligence company for target analysis

* An extended range sensing and effects company with unmanned aerial systems, electronic warfare, and high-altitude balloon platoons

* A space company with modular and fixed space control capabilities

* An information defense company with defensive cyber and electromagnetic attack platoons

What makes the MDTF concept unique is that it brings capabilities previously reserved for joint or national-level commands down to the tactical level, enabling field commanders to integrate and synchronize effects across domains. As LTC Ritzema explains, the task force's mission is fundamentally about finding adversaries faster than they can find you, then delivering effects - whether kinetic or non-kinetic - to enable broader joint operations.

For more on Arcane Thunder 25: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/496977/exercise-arcane-thunder-25-press-release

For more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

About Justin and Artem

Justin Fanelli serves as the Navy Chief Technology Officer and has earned a reputation for dismantling bureaucratic barriers that traditionally slow defense innovation. Coming from a technical background, Fanelli has developed new mental models for technology adoption within the Department of the Navy, including a structured approach to piloting, evaluation, and scaling of emerging technologies. His work focuses on creating transparent, outcomes-driven processes that empower change agents across the department.

Artem Sherbinin serves as the CTO for the Naval Surface Force, implementing modernization strategies on the front lines. His operational background as a navigator and operations officer on a Navy cruiser gives him a warfighter's perspective on technology risk. This experience has shaped his approach to innovation, with an emphasis on addressing real operational needs rather than satisfying bureaucratic requirements. Sherbinin works three echelons below Fanelli in the Navy's organizational structure, yet their collaborative approach demonstrates the cross-functional alignment driving today's modernization efforts.

For more Crossing the Valley:

* YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@crossingthevalley

* Substack: ValleyCrossers.com

Grant DeMaree founded Onebrief after serving on joint task forces in Liberia during the Ebola crisis and later in Iraq. As a second lieutenant in Liberia, Grant witnessed how the military's decision-making processes were lagging three months behind the movement of the Ebola virus, resulting in treatment units being built in locations where they were no longer needed. This experience led him to sketch his first solution concept on a napkin, driven by the realization that "these are human lives being lost because of decision speed."

Grant took the unconventional path of founding a company immediately after leaving the service, despite receiving advice to pursue graduate school or gain experience at an established company first. His conviction came from deeply understanding the problem: military staffs are the decision engines of the Department of Defense, but they're slow, inefficient, and larger than they need to be.

About Onebrief

Founded approximately six years ago, Onebrief has created a collaborative software platform designed to transform how military staffs plan operations and make decisions. The company's product enables faster decision cycles, improved decision quality, and greater staff efficiency across echelons and commands.

It took a few years of iteration for Onebrief to achieve product-market fit, but today their solution is deployed on multiple networks including NIPR, SIPR, JWICS, and CENTRIX. They've experienced explosive growth, with operational usage increasing at a 5,700% annualized rate in the most recent quarter. According to one study the company conducted, staffs using Onebrief operate approximately twice as fast and twice as efficiently as those using traditional tools.

For more on Grant: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gkdemaree/

For more on Onebrief: https://www.onebrief.com/

For more Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com

After serving 26 years in the Air Force, where he commanded the 480th Intelligence Surveillance and Reconnaissance Wing, Jason became deeply involved in defense innovation initiatives. He founded the Air Force AI Accelerator at MIT and helped stand up the Joint AI Center before transitioning to the private sector.

Prior to joining Applied Intuition as General Manager of their defense business, Jason led Google's professional services business for defense—a notable position given Google's complicated history with defense technology following the Project Maven controversy. Throughout his career, Jason has consistently focused on bringing software and data capabilities to the warfighter, driven by early experiences watching his airmen create innovative Python scripts to solve intelligence challenges.

About Applied Intuition

Founded in 2017, Applied Intuition has become a market leader in autonomy software. While initially focused on the commercial automotive sector, providing software tools to major OEMs developing autonomous vehicles, the company has expanded into defense applications across multiple domains.

About Blue Water Autonomy

Founded in spring 2024 and based in Boston, Blue Water Autonomy is designing and building autonomous ships with a "defense first, dual-use" approach. Their first customer is the U.S. Navy.

What distinguishes BWA from other players in the space is their focus on developing autonomous vessels that can operate without chase boats or constant human maintenance—something the founders identify as a critical gap in current capabilities. Rather than building small $100,000 unmanned surface vessels, they're targeting multi-million dollar platforms that can truly complement the Navy's manned fleet.

The company has already put a test vessel in the water outside Boston where they're testing hardware and software integration. They aim to have their first prototype vessel in the water sometime in 2025, with the ultimate goal of building autonomous ships at scale.

Their vision is to help the Navy implement "distributed maritime operations" through a disaggregated architecture—similar to how the satellite industry evolved from a few hundred expensive satellites to thousands of smaller, distributed ones.

As our first Launch Day feature, they'll be back on the show to keep us appraised of their progress.

To learn more:

Website: https://blw.ai

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/blue-water-autonomy/

Twitter: @BlueWaterShips

Founded to develop autonomous flight technology for existing aircraft, Merlin Labs is taking a fundamentally different approach to the challenge than many competitors. While most autonomous systems try to augment human pilots, creating a potentially dangerous shared control situation, Merlin's system operates as the primary pilot with human supervision. The "Merlin Pilot" is responsible for flying the aircraft, communicating with air traffic control, and making operational decisions, with a human supervisor available to take control if necessary..

Merlin's strategy involves dual certification paths, working with both military and civilian regulators to certify their core autonomous pilot system. Once certified, this core capability can be adapted to specific aircraft with only incremental certification work required. This approach has recently yielded a significant milestone: the first approved airworthiness plan for integrating autonomy onto a mainline Air Force aircraft.

Check out the show notes at ValleyCrossers.Com

For more on Merlin: https://merlinlabs.com/

Jesse Kallman is the founder and CEO of Danti, bringing deep industry experience from his extensive career in the defense and space sectors. With a strong background in unmanned systems and Earth observation, Jesse has worked at major defense primes including Booz Allen Hamilton, Northrop Grumman, and Airbus, giving him a comprehensive understanding of both the technical and operational aspects of intelligence analysis

About Danti

Founded just over two years ago, Danti is building a "search engine for Earth observation data." The company's core technology is an AI-powered knowledge engine that helps users discover, analyze, and utilize vast quantities of information captured from diverse sources including satellites, drones, social media, news, and analyst reports.

For more on Danti: https://danti.ai/

For more on Jesse: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessekallman/

For more Crossing the Valley: YouTube | Substack | LinkedIn | X

Phillip Buckendorf is the co-founder and CEO of Air Space Intelligence, bringing a unique perspective shaped by his education in political science and international relations in Germany. Frustrated by what he describes as Europe’s "degrowth mindset,” Phillip moved to the United States in his early 20s, seeking out the hotbed of innovation and technological progress.

About Air Space Intelligence

Founded after extensive research into air operations centers across commercial airlines, government agencies, and maritime organizations, ASI develops predictive software that transforms how logistics planning occurs in both commercial and defense contexts. The company's core innovation is shifting from static displays showing current conditions to dynamic simulations that predict how operational environments will change over time.

For more on Air Space Intelligence: https://www.airspace-intelligence.com/

For the Air Space Manifesto: https://www.airspace-intelligence.com/thesis

For more on Phillip: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillipbuckendorf/

For more Crossing the Valley: LinkedIn | X

A serial entrepreneur, Ian's journey began right after college when he worked as a technology advisor to Mark Pincus at Zynga, later starting a gaming company that was acquired by Zynga. He went on to found Synapse Technology (acquired by Palantir), invest at Village Global, and then co-found Apex Space with Max Benassi, a veteran of SpaceX who had worked on both the Falcon 9 and Starlink programs.

Founded in 2022, Apex Space is the world's first manufacturer of productized, configurable satellite bus platforms. Unlike traditional aerospace companies that custom-build each satellite bus for specific missions, Apex has standardized the design and manufacturing process to create what is essentially an off-the-shelf product.

For more on Ian: @IanCinnamon on X, LinkedIn

For more on Apex: @ApexSpacecraft on X, LinkedIn

For more Crossing the Valley: @NSheinbaum on X, LinkedIn

Peter is the Chief Product Officer of Maxar Intelligence, bringing his passion for maps and 12 years at Palantir Technologies to this renaissance story. At Palantir, Peter developed the famed “ontology” and mapping technologies, helping transition the company's defense business from intelligence operations to real-time operational support. His background in theoretical chemistry gives him a distinctive lens through which he approaches the relationship between models and reality—a tension at the heart of both cartography and defense technology.

About Maxar Intelligence

Maxar Intelligence began as DigitalGlobe, a pioneering Earth observation company. In 2017, Digital Globe was acquired by MDA, which was renamed Maxar. The company underwent significant transformations—being sold in 2019, taken private in 2022, and split into two business units (Maxar Intelligence and Maxar Space) in 2023.

Maxar's bread and butter is high-resolution satellite imagery, specifically 30-centimeter class resolution data. This exquisite imagery serves as a foundation for more sophisticated data products. The company's Legion satellites represent their newest generation of sensing technology.

But beyond imagery collection, Maxar has invested heavily in creating deep integrations with classified government systems—expertise they're now leveraging to create partnership frameworks for smaller, newer space companies. For example, their Direct Access Program allows international customers to install radio antennas and directly task satellites locally, embodying the shift from centralized to distributed space architecture.

For more about Maxar: https://www.maxar.com

For more on Peter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterwilczynski/

For more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

Josh Lospinoso isn’t your average hacker. Most hackers aren’t Rhodes Scholars. As a kid growing up in New Jersey during 9/11, Josh was drawn to service - but he had no idea he’d soon be hacking military weapon systems. As an Army Cyber Officer, he discovered critical vulnerabilities in mission essential platforms that revealed a sobering reality: these sophisticated weapons systems (flying computers!) were dangerously vulnerable to cyber threats. So after spending years building cyber tools at the National Security Agency, he founded (and exited) his first startup, a cybersecurity outfit called Red Owl Analytics. And then, he dove into an even bigger challenge, head-on. His background - Rhodes Scholar, PhD in Statistics, veteran - gave him unique credibility with both the defense establishment and the venture community. And today, he’s at the forefront of one of the most important missions: securing our operational technology systems.

For more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

For more on Shift5: https://shift5.io/

Follow Josh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jalospinoso/

Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/

When Thomas "T-Rob" Robinson joined Domino Data Lab eight and a half years ago, the company was focused on helping pharmaceutical companies and financial institutions build better AI models. With a background in math, computer science, and enterprise finance technology, he understood that the hardest problems in AI weren't about algorithms - they were about enabling domain experts to build trustworthy systems at scale. Meanwhile, Joel Meyer was at the Department of Homeland Security, leading their first AI task force and grappling with fundamental questions about how government could effectively adopt AI technology. Joel, like a number of government-to-startup guests before him, recognized a vendor that held the potential to address the very problems he was working from the inside. Today, T-Rob and Joel are working toward the shared vision of bringing enterprise-grade MLOps to critical national security missions.

For more about Domino: domino.ai

For more about T-Rob: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomassrobinson/

For more about Joel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joeltmeyer/

Often discussed but rarely understood, Palantir has emerged as a defining company in defense technology. With just 4,000 employees, they've built a business that surpasses traditional defense primes in market value. Their secret? A ruthless focus on hiring exceptional people, maintaining a flat organization, and putting engineers directly in the field with users. The company's forward-deployed engineer model has become the gold standard for defense tech startups, while their success with Project Maven has shown how commercial AI capabilities can be effectively deployed for national security.

For more about Palantir: palantir.com

For more Crossing the Valley, subscribe on Substack, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts!

Founded in November 2020, Varda Space is revolutionizing manufacturing by taking it off-planet. Their thesis is remarkably straightforward: microgravity enables the creation of materials impossible to make on Earth, and pharmaceuticals—the most expensive chemicals per kilogram—are the perfect starting point. In less than three years, they've designed, built, and landed the world's first commercial space factory. They're one of only three companies globally with commercial reentry vehicles, alongside SpaceX and Boeing. The difference? Varda's capsule, unburdened by human rating requirements, can do it cheaper and more frequently than anyone else.

Founded in Hood River, Oregon, Overwatch Imaging is changing how the industry processes aerial sensor data through automation. Rather than building another drone company, they're creating technology that makes every aerial platform smarter. Their automated sensor operator software tackles a critical challenge: helping small teams process massive amounts of aerial data efficiently. The company, now 30 people strong, has evolved from supporting emergency response to providing crucial capabilities across defense and commercial applications. They're proving that you don't need to be in a traditional tech hub to build world-changing technology.

For more about Overwatch: https://www.overwatchimaging.com/

For more Crossing the Valley: LinkedIn | X | YouTube

Follow Greg: LinkedIn

Follow Noah: LinkedIn | X

Formerly known as RRAI, Forterra is revolutionizing ground autonomy for both defense and commercial applications. Their mission is simple but ambitious: get humans out of harm's way. While many startups chase flashy features, Forterra focuses on building autonomous systems that work "nearly every time" in the most demanding environments. Their approach is working: they've secured major programs like Rogue Fires with Oshkosh, where they're helping the Marine Corps project force with minimal human footprint. With 265 employees and growing, they're proving that deep tech startups can successfully navigate the complex journey from R&D to production-scale deployment.

For more about Forterra: forterra.com

For more about Scott Sanders: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottbsanders/

For more Crossing the Valley: YouTube | Apple Podcasts | Spotify

Spun out of a major Bay Area VC firm, Fairwater Labs is productizing the defense innovation process. Unlike traditional venture studios that retain majority ownership, Fairwater gives founders control while providing deep operational support. They've developed a systematic approach to identifying market opportunities, matching them with the right founders, and supporting early growth. The model is working: their first company achieved a successful exit within 36 months, and they're on track to launch four new companies in 2024.

For more on Fairwater: fairwaterlabs.com

For more about Kyle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-o/

For more Crossing the Valley: https://youtube.com/@crossingthevalley

Founded with technology developed at Stanford, Datashapes brings a unique approach to electronic warfare and signals intelligence. Their platform processes spectrum data at the tactical edge, enabling operators to make real-time decisions. With 21 patents and deployments spanning special operations to commercial venues, they're proving that signal processing innovation can serve both battlefield and civilian use cases. Rather than organizing by service branch, they've taken a unique domain-first approach that's enabling adoption across space, maritime, and land domains simultaneously.

For more on Data Shapes: datashapesai.com

Founded two years ago in Nevada, Strike Solutions is seeking to make sense of the IoT data explosion. Their flagship product, Thunderdome, is a multi-modular sensor fusion platform that processes spectrum data at the tactical edge. By correlating signals with video feeds for facial and license plate recognition, Thunderdome provides crucial situational awareness for operators.

Strike also recently launched Prism, a packet capture solution that helps customers identify compromises in their tech stacks. Both products demonstrate Strike's ability to rapidly develop and deploy capabilities that solve immediate operational needs.

For more:

On Strike Solutions: strikesolutions.io

On Emma: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmaprz/

On Chris: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-%E2%80%9Cpacman%E2%80%9D-spach-4ab077111/

In 2019, Marine reconnaissance veteran Garrett Smith looked at tactical operators' challenges and saw something most others missed. While the industry chased large, networked systems, Smith recognized a fundamental gap: warfighters at the tactical edge lacked the software tools to make sense of their growing data streams. As a former Reconnaissance, Intelligence, and Infantry Officer, a graduate of Stanford University's Ford Dorsey Program in International Policy Studies, and a former head of business development at Kespry, Garrett had the perspective, network, and know-how to do something about it.

He’s joined on this episode by Dave Caudle, Reveal’s VP of Defense and Security, and an Army infantry veteran in his own right.

Notably, both Garrett and Dave continue to serve in reserve units, maintaining direct connection with their user base. Their technical leadership includes a number of additional Silicon Valley operators who bring deep technical expertise to these defense challenges.

For more on Reveal: https://www.revealtech.ai/

For more on Garrett: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wgarrettsmith/

For more on Dave: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dave-caudle-10223270/

For more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com

Founded in 2019, Bazze is an intelligence platform designed to transform how the defense and intelligence community accesses and utilizes commercial data. The company's platform enables users to know everything about a person, place, or thing using exclusively commercial data sources. Users of Bazze technology can quickly identify potential security risks and gather comprehensive intelligence using publicly available information.

For more on Bazze, or if you’re interested in checking out their products, head over to bazze.io

For more on Sammy, you can follow him on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/semwangu/

Today’s episode dives deep into the case, highlighting a crucial illustration of successful defense innovation.

Christopher Kirchhoff has been a key figure in many major developments in defense and national security over the past decade. He served as Obama's director for strategic planning at the National Security Council, was a senior civilian aide to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and authored influential reports on America's war in Iraq, the space shuttle Columbia disaster, and the Ebola response. Crucially, along with Raj Shah, Kirchhoff helped establish the Defense Innovation Unit Experimental (DIUx), which has become a vital piece in bringing modern technology into the mission of national defense.

Key topics covered:

- Ian's diverse background from Navy counterterrorism officer to tech entrepreneur

- The mission of Turbine One and its focus on edge AI for warfighter safety

- Navigating the complex landscape of defense contracting and acquisitions

- The importance of exercises and field testing in product development

- Overcoming obstacles in the "frozen middle" of defense procurement

- The key elements needed for success in defense tech startups

Ian shares candid insights on the realities of building a defense tech company, including dealing with industry incumbents, protecting intellectual property, and aligning with warfighter needs. This episode offers valuable lessons for entrepreneurs and innovators looking to make an impact in the defense and national security space.

Timestamps:

00:00-00:45: The Evolution of Deception in Warfare and IT

03:04-03:26: Spanish Cybersecurity Startup's Unique Approach

04:37-06:10: Countercraft's Deception Platform

09:16-12:43: Early Days: From Commercial to Government

13:39-16:52: Scaling through Partnerships

29:06-31:38: Democratizing Deception Technology

35:33-36:12: What's Next for Counter Craft

36:31-37:43: Advice for Startup Founders

For more visit: https://www.countercraftsec.com/

Ben Kohlmann is a retired F-18 pilot, former consultant, founder, and current investor at Cubit Capital. Ben has touched it all, and has a well-rounded, thoughtful, and purpose-driven perspective on defense investing.

Dan Magy is a repeat defense founder and the co-founder and CEO of Firestorm Labs. Dan's experience includes starting a counter-UAS company and working closely with special operations forces, giving him deep insight into the defense innovation landscape. He’s also prolific on LinkedIn, where his near-daily drone videos are wildly popular with the defense community and beyond.

Timestamps:

00:39-01:40: Introduction to Modular, Attritable Systems in Defense Tech

01:56-06:41: The Emergence of Drone Swarms in Modern Warfare

07:06-08:47: Asymmetric Warfare Advantage: Countering High-Tech with Low-Cost Solutions

09:08-10:53: Challenges in Adapting US Military Innovation and Procurement for Modern Conflicts

11:40-13:48: US Missed Opportunity to Innovate and Learn in Ukraine Conflict

13:48-14:46: The Importance of Real-World Testing and Rapid Innovation in Military Technology Development

16:30-17:58: Leveraging Battlefield Experience for Innovation

18:20-19:33: Navigating the Government Procurement Process for Startups

19:34-23:09: The Importance of Lobbying and Customer Discovery for Defense Startups"

23:47-24:58: Finding the Right Customer

26:01-30:58: The Keys to Successful Defense Tech Startups: Relationships, Go-to-Market Strategy, and Building Credibility

31:13-34:34: Navigating the DOD Innovation Ecosystem

36:02-36:25: DIU's Evolution

36:59-38:11: Firestorm's Progress and Future Milestones

38:12-39:15: Effective Storytelling for Congress in Defense Appropriations

42:32-45:51: Finding Alignment and Purpose in Your Role

Timestamps:

00:00-03:59: A Journey through Defense Technology Development

03:59-07:04: Moving from Investing to Operating in a Growing Company

07:55-08:47: Navigating Strategy Roles in Startups

10:00-12:38: From Commercial Markets to the Defense Space

18:45-22:02: Leveraging RDTE Funding

22:50-24:23: Navigating the Trade-offs in Counter-UAS Systems

26:10-27:00: International Expansion

27:30-28:45: Next Steps in Defense Contracts and Counter-UAS Innovations

Vannevar Labs is building the next-generation “non-kinetic defense prime.”

Today, they're mentioned in the same breath as defense behemoths like Anduril and Palantir. Since founding the company in their Stanford dorm room in 2019, CEO Brett Granberg and President Nini Hamrick have grown the company dramatically. From $3.5 million in annual contract value in 2021, they did $25 million in 2022, before growing to $49 million last year.

What's even more crazy is, unlike most of their peers, they're already profitable. Brett and Nini know that defense modernization is not a fight that's going to be won by one company alone.

Check us out at ValleyCrossers.com and frontdoor.substack.com for the full writeup!

Timestamps

00:00:00-00:00:34 - Introduction to Vannevar Labs

00:00:34-00:01:50 - Founding Story

00:04:22-00:05:55 - Reactions to Starting a Defense Tech Company

00:09:29-00:11:55 - Building Trust with Customers

00:13:17-00:17:41 - Selecting and Working with Champions

00:26:30-00:28:51 - Transitioning to Larger Programs

00:36:30-00:39:58 - Future Plans and Growth of Vannevar Labs

00:40:09-00:45:50 - Talent and Hiring at Vannevar Labs

Jade shares the story of how VISION came to be, starting with their participation in an Air Force pitch competition, with twists turns and pivots along the way. The end result is Vision, a data platform, has changed the way data is used in the defense “innovation” and acquisition communities to match buyers and sellers.

For more on the Mobilize team, check out mobilizevision.com

I’m excited to bring you this timely episode of "Crossing the Valley." I had the opportunity to sit down with Kara Kramer, the Director of Business Development at AeroVironment, and winner of the first Replicator award!

In this episode, Kara spills the beans on AeroVironment's recent win, and goes in depth on the Switchblade loitering munition. We dive into the details of the program, the future of autonomy in the defense industry, and AeroVironment itself.

Kara shares valuable insights on the importance of focusing on customer requirements, the benefits of working with both startups and large companies, and the significance of scalability in defense innovation.

If you're interested in learning more about AeroVironment, their role in the Replicator initiative, and the future of autonomy in defense, this episode is a must-listen.

If you’d like to learn more about AeroVironment, or to join the team, check out avinc.com!

Unlike many founders, Michael actually turned down the first opportunity he had to start a company.

Why?

He felt he wasn’t prepared.

So he focused on acquiring the skills and experiences he knew he would need, to be able to succeed when he finally stepped into the role.

Fair to say, that bet is paying off!

For more on IronEagleX: https://ironeaglex.com/

For more on Michael Grochol: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-grochol/

For more Crossing the Valley: https://www.youtube.com/@FrontdoorDefense

Marc Frankel is one of the few people on earth to have worked at not one but TWO successful defense tech companies: Palantir, and Expanse. Now he's taking on the problem of software supply chain vulnerabilities with his new venture, Manifest Cyber. In this conversation we dive into what he's applying from past experience, what he's learning fresh for the first time, and what the future holds.

For more on Manifest:

Website: Manifestcyber.com

BOM Working Group Slack: info@manifestcyber.com

YouTube:  @manifest-cyber 

For more on Firehawk Aerospace, check out: https://firehawkaerospace.com/

Timestamps:

2:22 - Tyler's background and the journey to the C-suite

6:30 - The Second Front team and Kessel Run origin story

9:00 - Tyler reacts to the Defense Ventures Fellowship news

12:20 - What Second Front is doing and why

16:45 - How Second Front went to market initially

20:54 - You are not at a startup unless...

23:20 - "Mo ways for mo apps is mo better"

26:40 - Federal vs commercial business

31:16 - How to structure the government business for growth

33:55 - Startup culture vs big DoD culture

42:48 - Why a Prime didn't build Second Front's product

44:40 - Tyler's hopes for the industry

For more on Second Front: secondfront.com

To learn more about Offset Symposium: secondfront.com/offset-symposium 

To read the case study: frontdoordefense.substack.com

CFD Research is a small business founded in 1987 in the Singhal family garage in Huntsville, Alabama. Today it is a $75M business that has received more than $100M in SBIR funding, with one of the highest commercialization rates in the business.

We spoke with CEO and President Sameer Singhal about the company's business model, and how they go about delivering for the mission of national defense.

For more:

* On CFD Research: www.cfd-reserach.com

* On Sameer Singhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sameer-singhal-304b6018/

* Crossing the Valley: https://www.youtube.com/@FrontdoorDefense 

I met Blake Hall in 2020, during COVID, as my nonprofit organization was looking to help surge healthcare professionals into the fight against the pandemic. One of the key challenges was identifying and verifying user credentials. Enter ID.me; Blake and team offered to do it for the healthcare facilities who were vetting our volunteers - and incredibly, to do it for free. His heart for service runs deep. I’m excited to share his story - the ID.me story - with you.

For more info:

* On Blake Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hallblake/

* On ID.me: https://www.id.me/

⏲️ Timestamps ⏲️

2:23 - The ID.me founding story

6:40 - Finding their first users

11:55 - Early funding, the power of serendipity, and the burden of expectations

14:55 - The power of niche: focusing where others had flared

18:25 - ID.me's approach to product

26:20 - Approaching the federal government

30:55 - Commercial as a launchpad for federal

33:15 - The first government grant

38:10 - The cautionary tale of Connect.gov

43:00 - Blake's take on adversity

47:20 - The fatal sin of entrepreneurship

48:25 - The value of certifications and testing

54:15 - The first $1 trillion identity company?

58:50 - Blake's friendship with Elon Musk

1:02:20 - Blake's advice to people entering the federal market

ZeroEyes was founded in 2018 by a team of Navy SEALs and technologists: Mike Lahiff, Sam Alaimo, Tim Sulzer, Rob Huberty and Dustin Brooks. The company launched following the school shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas elementary school to prevent future school shootings.

In this episode, we speak with James “JT” Wilkins, a Marine who served fifteen years until he was medically retired. As he prepared to retire, JT had a management consulting offer in hand, and was preparing to move into the analytical lifestyle when COVID hit. What seemed like a disaster at the time turned into a blessing: when the firm pushed his offer back six months, JT knew he had to go back to work. So he discovered defense technology, and a firm called Immersive Wisdom, which gave him his foray into the industry, and an opportunity to continue the national security mission by other means. Over time, as his work brought him into contact with the ZeroEyes team at Tyndall Air Force Base, he decided to join forces with their remarkable team (more on that later).

For more on:

JT Wilkins: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameswilkins610/

ZeroEyes: https://zeroeyes.com/about-us/

Crossing the Valley: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsYH_WbObFJwM3IkLx1UyUQ

In this episode I spoke with David Gerson, the firm’s Vice President, about how they engineered from transition, how building for defense is different, and what the future may hold. Check it out and let me know what you think! And if you like it, please don’t forget to share and subscribe!

⏲️Timestamps ⏲️

2:43 – Introduction to Apogee Research

6:36 – The Apogee model

13:00 – What it means to build for transition

17:00 - Helping program managers craft great programs

20:28 – How Apogee partners

26:07 – Why interoperability is hard for DoD

29:20 – The genesis of DARPA’S SoSITE Initiative

33:59 – How DARPA works

37:50 – Why global standards fail

46:36 – The STITCHES customer discovery process

50:00 – Running the Gauntlet: Building buy-in among user communities

54:20 – Finding a transition partner

57:30 – Contracting for transition

1:04:49 – The future of defense technology

I’m excited to bring you Accrete AI’s story of tech transition. It’s a story about a commercial-first bootstrapped company finding its way in the defense market. The interview was super interesting, as our two guests have such different backgrounds: Prashant was a financial trader, while Brian had a 20+ year career inside the government. But they play off each other incredibly well, and have some absolute truth bombs for our listeners. This case study includes key takeaways, timestamps, company contracts (thanks to our friends at Procure FYI), and much more.

If you like the audio version, check us out on YouTube, and read on for the Case Study highlights!

And please let me know what you like and what you want more of! noah@frontdoordefense.com.

⏲️TIMESTAMPS⏲️

00:00 - Intro

01:43 - Prashant's Background and Accrete's Founding

08:47 - Brian's Background and Transition from Government

13:37 - Accrete's Commercial-first Strategy

17:47 - The DIU Application Process

24:24 - DIU's Acquisition and Transition Process

29:53 - How Accrete Built with the Customer to Pass Technical Milestones

32:44 - The First Transition

35:42 - Expectations vs. Reality of Transition

43:02 - Advice to Small Companies

50:17 - What Does the Future Hold?

But so few make it across the “Valley of Death” from pilot to production.

The ones who do?

Their stories are rarely told.

Until now.

In this show, we go deep into the stories of the companies that have blazed a path in the federal market, to understand the tools, tips, and playbooks to getting to scale inside the Department of Defense.

Each episode will be accompanied by an in-depth case study - subscribe to never miss an episode!