My history with Zvi Mowshowitz goes back over 20 years to our days as teammates on the Magic Pro Tour, where we won a Grand Prix and top-8ed a Pro Tour together. After his competitive gaming career and a stint designing games at Wizards of the Coast and heading up a Cyberpunk TCG design team in Denver, Zvi took his unique systems-thinking mind into high-stakes finance. He managed risk as a professional bookmaker in sports betting, traded crypto for a hedge fund, and worked quantitative trading desks at firms like Jane Street. Today, he’s focused his incredible intellect on the world of artificial intelligence, writing five times a week at his blog, Don’t Worry About the Vase, tracking the breakneck evolution of large language models and the critical safety challenge of AI alignment. In this episode, we dive deep into the math of pattern recognition, our wild days on the Pro Tour, the high-stress realities of trading, and how to navigate the massive societal shifts coming with AI. Zvi delivers insights on rationality and adaptability that will resonate with anyone trying to think clearly in a rapidly changing world.

Nate Heiss is a true game design chameleon. His 25-plus year career spans from competitive Magic: The Gathering play to designing iconic cards like Goblin Guide at Wizards of the Coast. He then took those skills into the AAA video game world, working as a designer and creative director at studios like LucasArts and PopCap on massive mobile hits like Plants vs. Zombies Heroes. Nate and I have been geeking out about game design since we met on the Magic Pro Tour in the late 90s, and now we’re finally teaming up on Gundam Assemble, an upcoming tabletop skirmish miniatures game. In this episode, we dive deep into the differences between physical and digital design, the ethics and realities of free-to-play business models, and how to capture the elusive magic of discovery in an internet age. Nate delivers profound insights that will resonate with anyone building games or trying to navigate a creative career.

Justin’s Ah-Ha! Moments

* The Shift From Player to Designer Mindset: Nate and I discuss a classic trap many pro players fall into when they start designing: trying to "beat" the players. It's easy to bring a competitive ego into R&D and focus on squashing dominant strategies to prove how smart you are. But great design isn't about winning; it's about crafting a fun experience. Once you soften that competitive edge, you realize your true goal is to empower players to make their own discoveries.

* The Economics of Free-to-Play Dictate Design: We tackle the controversial topic of free-to-play games. Nate points out that companies succeeding in this space aren't necessarily making "better" games; they are mastering live service and content costs. If a studio can "turn the crank" and produce engaging content at a fraction of the cost, they gain a massive competitive advantage. It shifts the design problem from just making an great game (which is table stakes) to efficiently delivering ongoing value over time.

* Roguelikes are the Modern Gold Rush: I've always wanted to recreate the feeling of opening an early Magic pack—when nobody knew the optimal strategies and everything felt like an untamed frontier. Nate brilliantly identifies that roguelikes are where this feeling lives today. By taking a core loop and exploding it into a massive, randomized possibility space on every run, roguelikes force players to adapt and experiment, capturing that communal feeling of discovery over and over again.

Mark Rosewater is the Head Designer for Magic: The Gathering and one of the most influential voices in modern game design. With decades of experience shaping one of the most successful and enduring games in the world, Mark has led the design of countless sets and pioneered many of the systems that define Magic today. Known for his deep understanding of player psychology and his ability to translate complex ideas into elegant design, Mark has spent his career exploring what makes games resonate on an emotional level. In this episode, he shares hard-earned lessons about creativity, audience connection, and why great design starts with how you want players to feel.

* Check out Mood Swings, a new game by Mark Rosewater

* Making Magic

* Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast

* Mark Rosewater Tumblr

* Mark Rosewater Bsky

Justin’s Ah-Ha! Moments

Why You Should Fear Indifference More Than Criticism: Strong negative reactions mean people care about your game. Indifference means it didn’t land at all. The best games spark emotion, even when that emotion is mixed or uncomfortable.

The Real Goal of Game Design Is Emotional Impact: Mechanics are only a means to an end. What players remember is how the game made them feel: tension, excitement, surprise, or triumph. The most effective designs start with the emotional experience and use mechanics to deliver it.

Why Complexity Can Be a Strength When Used Correctly: Magic: The Gathering continues to grow as a game because of its depth and the space it offers for expansion. Yet the secret to a complex game is that it still needs enough clarity for new players to enter. When creating a game with complexity, the goal is to preserve what makes your game compelling while making it accessible.

Show Notes

“Good design is all about making wrong choices.” (00:11:17)

Becoming a great designer requires exploring, testing, and discovering what doesn’t work. Every wrong choice teaches you something. The faster you’re willing to be decisive and commit to your ideas, the faster you get to something that actually works. Don’t hesitate—commit and learn from it.

“The data is so essential.” (00:20:50)

Mark explains how much of Magic’s success comes from constantly listening to players and analyzing behavior. There’s no shortage of data (playtests, player feedback, sales trends, format popularity) but the challenge is knowing what to do with it. He says that data is all about finding patterns and understanding what’s actually driving player behavior. Players will tell you what they like, but not always why. Part of the designer’s job is to interpret those signals and turn them into better decisions about what to build next.

“The idea essentially is can we sell somebody a basic game that is expandable if they want it to be expandable, but not if they don’t.” (00:45:52)

Here Mark is talking specifically about the structure of his new game. The goal is to create a complete experience out of the box, while still allowing for expansion over time. That’s a difficult balance. If the base game feels incomplete, casual players drop off. If expansions feel unnecessary, engaged players lose interest.

“I’ve had 28 years of iterative loops.” (01:12:33)

Mark has been revisiting Mood Swings for nearly three decades, refining and rethinking it over time. While this is an extreme version of iteration, it highlights a broader truth, which is that some ideas take years to fully realize. Sometimes the idea for a game will evolve alongside your skills and perspective. The lesson is to hold onto ideas that matter, keep testing them, and recognize that the right version may only emerge much later.

“If you can make your audience see themselves in your game, you will be very successful.” (01:30:17)

Mark and I discuss how the way a game ties to a player’s identity drives replayability. Systems like colors in Magic or classes and races in Dungeons & Dragons give players a way to express who they are through play. That sense of self-expression creates a deeper connection, turning the game into a space where players can explore different versions of themselves in a safe and meaningful way.

If you’ve ever had a game idea but didn’t know how to turn it into a real, playable design, my Design Labs program walks you through the entire process. With 60+ lessons, practical assignments, and a private Discord community, you’ll learn how to move from inspiration to prototype, playtesting, iteration, and publishing.

Drew Corkill is a UI/UX designer with nearly 15 years of experience and a deep background in graphic design, who has quietly become one of the most prolific creators in tabletop gaming. Alongside Gabe Barrett, Drew is the driving force behind the “Solo Game of the Month” initiative, he’s launched more crowdfunded games than almost anyone in the industry, building a system that prioritizes speed, iteration, and consistent output.

Drew first connected with me as a student in the Think Like a Game Designer Course, where his early work on Small Time Heroes evolved into a breakout success with multiple expansions and campaigns. In this episode, Drew shares how his background in UX shapes his approach to game design, what makes solo games uniquely powerful, and how community, structure, and relentless iteration can turn creative ambition into a sustainable career.

Justin’s Ah-Ha Moments:

* Threats, Timers, Treats: Drew had one of the clearest frameworks I’ve heard for solo game design. If you want a solo game to generate excitement, you need pressure (threats), urgency (timers), and reward (treats). Miss one, and the whole thing feels more like a puzzle than a game. This is a simple checklist, but it’s deceptively powerful.

* You Don’t Build Alone: What stood out to me in Drew’s story is how much of his success came from the environment around him. Community, feedback, and deadlines are force multipliers. Left on your own, it’s easy to stall, but put yourself in a room with people who are building, and everything speeds up. This is true whether it’s a course, a group, or just a few people you trust.

* Cut to the Experience: When you take something digital and try to make it physical, all the excess gets exposed. You can’t rely on automation or hidden math, instead you have to decide what actually matters. Drew’s approach is to strip things down until the fun is obvious. That’s a useful lens for any design. If something is slowing the player down without adding value, it’s probably not pulling its weight.

If you’ve ever had a game idea but didn’t know how to turn it into a real, playable design, my Design Labs program walks you through the entire process. With 60+ lessons, practical assignments, and a private Discord community, you’ll learn how to move from inspiration to prototype, playtesting, iteration, and publishing.

Show Notes:

“I was like, well, I’ll just make my own version of what I want.” (00:07:01)

This is one of those deceptively simple origin moments. Drew couldn’t find the experience he wanted, so instead of waiting, he built it. That impulse, where you’re moving from consumer to creator, is where a lot of design careers actually begin. If something feels missing in the games you’re playing, consider it a compass, and try to fill the gap.

“If it’s distracting from the fun […] then it’s a baby that has to be killed.” (00:27:30)

This is Drew being brutally honest about design discipline. It’s easy to fall in love with clever mechanics, complex systems, or ideas that felt great during development, but if they slow the game down or pull players out of the experience, they have to go. Prioritization is key, because not every good idea belongs in the final product. Remember, most of the time you should be removing anything that doesn’t serve the core experience, no matter how much time you’ve invested in it.

“To design a solo game is much easier than it is to design a multiplayer game.” (00:42:47)

Drew loves to design solo games. Late in the conversation, he gets tactical about why his “game a month” system works. Solo games reduce complexity, which makes them faster to design, test, and ship. Solo games are easier to iterate on, because until very late in the process, you are the only designer and playtester needed to refine the prototype.

You can find Think Like a Game Designer on these platforms:

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

* Youtube

* Keith Baker

* Monty Cook

* Raph Koster

* Richard Garfield

* John Zinser

* Elizabeth Hargrave

* Eric Lang

00:03:06 — Keith Baker

Lesson: Creating a world that becomes a playable game.

Baker explains how he designed the Eberron setting and why fantasy worlds need recognizable hooks that players can quickly understand.

00:17:31 — Monty Cook

Lesson: How RPG worlds and systems come together in design.

Cook discusses the process of building role-playing games and the interplay between storytelling, mechanics, and player experience.

00:23:24 — Raph Koster

Lesson: Designing games through structured creative practice.

Koster explains his ideation process, how he takes notes and prototypes ideas, and why constraints and deliberate practice help designers develop new game concepts.

00:33:18 — Richard Garfield

Lesson: Spend your “complexity points” wisely.

Garfield talks about balancing innovation and accessibility, emphasizing that too much novelty can make games harder for players to understand.

00:40:33 — John Zinser

Lesson: A successful game needs a strong hook.

Zinser explains how publishers evaluate games and why clear differentiation is critical when pitching or launching a new title.

01:04:36 — Elizabeth Hargrave

Lesson: Passionate themes can unlock new audiences.

Hargrave discusses how Wingspan succeeded by pairing a unique theme with mechanics that reinforce that theme.

01:17:03 — Eric Lang

Lesson: Great games come from iteration and cutting what doesn’t serve the design.

Lang discusses engine design, playtesting, and how cohesion between theme and mechanics strengthens a game.

If you’ve ever had a game idea but didn’t know how to turn it into a real, playable design, my Design Labs program walks you through the entire process. With 60+ lessons, practical assignments, and a private Discord community, you’ll learn how to move from inspiration to prototype, playtesting, iteration, and publishing.

Learn More at JustinGaryDesigns.com

Eric Lang is one of the most influential designers in modern tabletop gaming, known for bold thematic systems and highly interactive play. Over his career, he has designed or co-designed titles including Blood Rage, Rising Sun, Ankh: Gods of Egypt, Chaos in the Old World, and numerous licensed and collectible card games. His work spans hobby and mass-market audiences alike, blending deep strategic frameworks with strong narrative identity. In this episode, Eric shares how he approaches conflict-driven design, why player psychology matters more than mechanics alone, and what it takes to build games that feel both competitive and emotionally resonant. If you’re interested in designing for tension, identity, and memorable table moments, this conversation offers a masterclass from one of the industry’s most distinctive voices.

Jaimie Wolanski has over 20 years of experience in the games industry, with a career spanning major brands and mass-market hits. She’s worked as a sales rep bringing games into stores like Target and Barnes & Noble, and has helped launch titles like Shopkins, Catan, Ticket to Ride, Bananagrams, and Exploding Kittens. She even worked with Justin to bring You Gotta Be Kitten Me to market. In this episode, Jaimie shares what it takes to succeed in a crowded space, how to build teams you can trust, and why knowing when to let go of a project can be just as important as seeing one through. If you care about the business of games—especially the part that happens after the prototype—this conversation is packed with sharp insights and real-world experience.

Vlaada Chvátil is one of the most influential game designers of the modern era. As the creative force behind classics like Through the Ages, Codenames, and Galaxy Trucker, and a co-founder of Czech Games Edition (CGE), he’s built a career defined by curiosity, craft, and an uncompromising commitment to making games he actually wants to play. Vlaada’s path—from programming and digital game development to shaping some of the most enduring tabletop designs of the last 20 years—has given him a rare perspective on iteration, collaboration, and long-term creative sustainability. In this episode, we explore how he chooses projects, why great development beats marketing every time, and how designing for joy has fueled both his games and his company.

Ah-Ha Moments

We Sell Games So We Can Make Games: Vlaada reframes the entire business of game design. The purpose of publishing is to fund the next act of creation, not to chase sales targets. This mindset frees designers to make bolder, more honest games, because success is measured by creative momentum, not quarterly performance.

The Best Marketing Is Ruthless Investment in Development: CGE spent its early years with no marketing team at all, because they didn’t need one. Vlaada’s long-term strategy is simple and difficult: invest heavily in development and let quality do the work. Great games create their own momentum. Word of mouth, sustained sales growth, and long tails are the natural result of excellence.

The Golden Rule of Collaborative Design: When collaborators disagree, Vlaada avoids persuasion entirely. Instead of fighting to prove one idea right and the other wrong, the goal is to find a third solution neither person originally proposed, but that both genuinely like. This reframes disagreement as a creative engine, not a conflict, and almost always leads to stronger, more resilient designs.

Carly McGinnis is the driving force behind one of the fastest-growing tabletop companies in history. As CEO of Exploding Kittens, she’s helped lead the company to over 25 million games sold and dozens of successful launches, all while keeping the promises of the most-backed crowdfund ever. Carly’s path—from surviving the Hollywood talent-agency grind to building a global game business—has given her a rare blend of resilience, humor, and no-nonsense leadership. In this episode, we discuss how she scales teams, navigates creative chaos, and builds a culture that can actually deliver on big ideas.

Related episodes with Elan Lee, Creator of Exploding Kittens

Justin’s Ah-Ha Notes:

* Slow Down to Grow Faster: Carly reminds us that speed isn’t the same as progress. When you rush just to keep moving, you create confusion, rework, and stress that ultimately slow you down. The real skill is learning to pause long enough to think clearly, set the right priorities, and avoid doing things simply for the sake of doing them. When you give yourself and your team permission to slow down, you actually create the conditions to grow faster and make better decisions.

* Define “Good Enough” and Move Forward: One of Carly’s superpowers is knowing when to push and when to ship. Perfection can quietly kill momentum, especially inside a fast-scaling company. By clearly defining what “good enough” means for a project, she empowers her team to keep moving, learn in the real world, and avoid getting stuck polishing details that don’t matter. Progress comes from clarity and clarity starts with setting a bar everyone understands.

* Leadership Is Repetition: Carly makes this point beautifully: leadership isn’t about a single breakthrough moment, it’s about reinforcing the fundamentals again and again. Whether it’s reminding the team of the mission, encouraging fast feedback loops, or surfacing hard conversations, the job is to repeat what matters until it becomes part of the culture’s DNA. A great leader is patient, and presents enough to help their teams grow in the right direction.

Kyle Thiermann is a professional big-wave surfer, journalist, and creative director whose career bridges storytelling, advertising, and adventure. He’s written for Men’s Health, Surfer, and Outside Magazine, and helped shape campaigns for brands like Patagonia, Yeti, and Mudwater, with his ads and viral spots reaching over 100 million people. Kyle is also the author of One Last Question Before You Go: Why You Should Interview Your Parents Now, a deeply personal exploration of family, curiosity, and conversation. In this episode, Justin and Kyle dive into the fear that drives creativity, the lessons of surfing six-story waves, and how to use curiosity and courage to build a more meaningful creative life.

Think Like A Game Designer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways

Deadlines create gravity: Surrounding yourself with people you respect and setting clear deadlines are two of the most powerful tools for getting things done—it is the engine of creative work, which turn ambition into action and ensure you finish what you start.

Proximity is an accelerant: Kyle’s learned, both in the ocean and in his creative career, that the fastest way to improve is to surround yourself with people already doing the thing you’re learning. Mentorship and shared goals create a rhythm of steady progress that’s hard to find alone.

Better questions equal better understanding: We’re trained to have answers, but not to ask better questions and that’s where understanding truly lives. Whether you’re exploring a design challenge or rebuilding a relationship curiosity has the power to turn conversation into insight. Kyle’s book about interviewing his parents is a masterclass in curiosity.

Show Notes

“The power of deadlines and more specifically, the fear of disappointing people I respect has driven my career.” (00:04:55)

We start by talking about the writing group where Kyle and I met, guided by New York Times best-selling author Neil Strauss. Together we dig into how essential structure and accountability are for any creative project including the value of mentors, peers, and most of all, deadlines. If you’ve listened to this podcast before, you’ve heard me say it: deadlines are magic. They turn vague ambition into finished work.

“Find the people that are doing the thing and hang out with them as much as possible.” (00:15:58)

Kyle connects his life as a big-wave surfer to his creative process, showing that fear and mastery follow the same pattern. Whether you’re paddling into six-story waves or starting a new creative career, the fastest way to grow is to surround yourself with people already doing what you aspire to do. Mentorship, proximity, and shared accountability accelerate progress more than any course or tutorial ever could.

“Copywriting is much more like stand-up comedy, where you’re trying to take an idea and distill it down to its most essential form that’s going to get someone’s attention and connect them to this thing that you are selling.” (00:34:49)

Kyle compares copywriting to stand-up comedy and it’s a perfect analogy. Both rely on timing, clarity, and emotion. Every word has to earn its place. For designers, writers, and storytellers, the lesson is simple: your job isn’t to explain, it’s to distill. When you can make someone feel something in a single line, you’ve revealed its essence, making it easier for your audience to understand, and therefore, to buy.

“We’re taught to have the right answers, but never taught to have the right questions.” (00:51:56)

Kyle wrote a book about interviewing his partents. His book grew out of realizing that curiosity—especially toward the people closest to us—is a learned skill. We train for answers, but not for questions, and that leaves entire parts of our relationships unexplored. As Kyle discovered, interviewing is about transforming judgment into curiosity. Asking better questions of our parents, our collaborators, or ourselves is how we rediscover the people we thought we already knew.

* Kyle’s Upcoming Book: https://geni.us/onelastqbeforeyougo

* Kyle’s Website: https://www.kylethiermann.com/

In this episode, we explore the hidden value of juggling multiple projects, how to prototype without rules or components, and why a playful mindset is essential, especially when the work gets tough.

About this Episode

This episode is a little different from the usual Think Like a Game Designer conversation. Instead of a freeform discussion, I came prepared with a curated list of questions to guide the conversation, giving us a structured look into Jordan’s creative process, his philosophies on innovation, and the lessons he’s learned over decades of building worlds. The result is a fast-paced, insight-packed episode that feels like sitting in on a masterclass in game design.

About Jordan Weisman

Jordan Weisman is a legendary figure in interactive entertainment, whose career spans tabletop games, video games, theme parks, and beyond. As the creator of Battletech, Shadowrun, and Crimson Skies, and the founder of iconic companies like FASA and WizKids, Jordan has shaped generations of players and creators alike. His work is defined by boundless curiosity, fearless experimentation, and a lifelong commitment to collaborative storytelling.

In this episode, Jordan and I explore what it means to think small, fail boldly, and keep learning no matter how much success you’ve had. We discuss how curiosity drives innovation, why emotional courage is more important than financial risk, and how respect—for yourself, your team, and your audience—is at the heart of great creative work. Whether you’re just starting your design journey or looking to rekindle your passion after decades in the industry, Jordan’s insights offer a masterclass in staying creative for life.

Think Like A Game Designer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Justin’s Questions

What’s something that you’re passionate about outside of your career, and what do you love about it? (00:01:33)

* During the pandemic, he rediscovered model building and diorama crafting, a childhood hobby that brings him therapeutic joy.

* He enjoys it because it’s tangible, visual storytelling where you can actually see progress, a much different process than game design, which often feels abstract or slow.

What do you love about that kind of model building and creating? (00:04:05)

* It aligns with Jordan’s love of world-building and storytelling when creating small, detailed scenes that tell a story visually.

* It’s satisfying because each session produces visible progress, reinforcing creativity and immersion.

What is advice that you would give to someone that’s just starting out in your industry? (00:04:06)

* Think small. Beginners often aim for massive projects like the ones they admire.

* Start with something you can finish using your own limited resources.

* Completion and execution teach more than ideas ever will.

* Focus on learning through doing, not imagining.

Now let’s flip to the other side of the equation: what do you see as an important lesson that industry veterans need to learn? Or put another way, what advice do you think your older self might give to you? (00:06:30)

* Avoid hubris. Experience can blind you. Everything you know might be wrong.

* Listen to young minds. Youth brings creativity because it hasn’t learned what’s supposedly impossible.

* Over time, past failures make people too cautious; veterans must keep their beginner’s mindset.

* Innovation demands courage to look foolish publicly; fear of embarrassment kills creativity.

* Stay humble, keep experimenting, and reassess old assumptions regularly.

Are there any practices or rituals or ways that you try to keep yourself in that beginner’s mind? How can one get the advantages of experience and minimize the disadvantages? (00:08:09)

* You must be willing to “go face first into the mud.”

* As he said in the previous question, public embarrassment is the price of innovation.

* Surround yourself with young thinkers, question assumptions, and resist dismissing ideas based on past failures.

* Always check whether past lessons still apply, because markets and contexts change. Jordan gives an example of a failed company born from his overconfidence, where he didn’t re-research the market because he assumed he already knew it.

What do you consider the most important skills to cultivate for your profession, and how do you cultivate these skills? (00:15:13)

* Endless curiosity: Study adjacent fields like comics, fiction, tech—anything that feeds creative cross-pollination.

* Build a box: Instead of “thinking outside the box,” define constraints clearly to evaluate ideas. For example: He designed Mage Knight by creating a checklist of problems (ease of entry, low cost, retailer needs) and solving within that “box.”

* He values self-education: when he didn’t know toy manufacturing, he paid a small company to teach him the process.

So let’s get to the areas where the industry or you have been dead wrong. What common advice do you hear about your industry that is dead? (00:24:26)

* “Nothing is ever dead.” Genres, mechanics, and IPs always come back (vinyl, RPGs, etc.)

* When people say something’s over, it’s actually ready for reinvention.

* He used to believe in-person collaboration was essential, but remote work proved him wrong.

* He often misjudged products (like thinking Funko Pops would flop).

* Absorb wisdom but not edicts.

* Success and failure are cyclical, making timing and humility matter more than certainty.

What books, articles, or learning resources have had the biggest impact on you? And if there are any key takeaways that stuck with you that come to mind? (00:30:53)

* Mentions Reed Hastings’ book (Netflix culture) and Creativity, Inc. by Ed Catmull (Pixar). The value here is the small-team principles and leadership lessons, though he’s skeptical of the “find five geniuses” model.

* His biggest lessons came from mentors, not books: Mark Miller (creator of Traveller): taught him kindness and professionalism. His father, Mort Weissman: joined FASA, ran the business side, and kept it alive.

* He emphasizes mentorship, respect, and kindness as lasting business principles.

What is the right way to find a partner? (00:33:14)

* Finding a partner is like finding a life mate: talk about goals, work habits, expectations.

* Negotiate the “prenup” early, meaning you should decide how you’ll split if things go wrong.

* Avoid the naive approach he took (asking friends at the table).

What about systems, software, and tools that have had a big impact on your workflow?(00:38:18)

* Internal tool: his “box” process for evaluating ideas.

* Software: Slack (no internal email, all communication centralized), Google Docs (collaboration), ClickUp/Jira (task tracking).

* Avoid “Not Invented Here” syndrome: don’t build tools you can buy.

* Focus on your core innovation; outsource or use existing solutions for everything else.

* Reuse mechanics unless your innovation demands new ones.

* Let your team choose tools bottom-up instead of enforcing top-down.

What’s your favorite project, and what lessons did you learn from it? (00:45:46)

* His favorite is always the one he’s working on now, but emotionally, Shadowrun and Crimson Skies stand out. Shadowrun came from trying to differentiate from Cyberpunk and combining fantasy with cyberpunk via the Mayan calendar. Crimson Skies was born from personal burnout after his wife pushed him to rediscover his passion. It led to reinvention and eventually Microsoft’s acquisition of his company.

* His lesson here is that passion and reinvention are crucial; listen to loved ones and know when to move on from stale success.

You can find the previous episode with Jordan below:

Jonathan Grant is a creative director at Zynga, founder of Orbital Games, and co-host of We Thought It Would Be Easy with Jordan Weisman. His career spans startups, acquisitions, and AAA environments, where he’s pitched ideas in Zynga boardrooms, built risky new projects, and collaborated with legends of the industry. Jonathan’s work is defined by his willingness to experiment, his honesty about failure, and his belief that great games hide secrets waiting to be discovered. In this episode, we dive into what it means to make the right bets, how to use criticism to grow, and why experimentation and mystery are essential tools in game design

Think Like A Game Designer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways

* Your Critics Are Right About You: Jonathan challenges us to let go of ego by acknowledging that criticism often contains truth. Instead of fighting it, use it as fuel to grow. Accepting this mindset helps designers take risks, embrace feedback, and move forward without fear of failure.

* The Power of Experimentation: At Zynga, Jonathan saw firsthand how structured experimentation can refine ideas—sometimes running a dozen tests at once. The key lesson: experimentation validates and sharpens vision, but it should never replace it. Use data to guide improvement, not dictate creativity.

* The Purpose of Gameplay is to Hide Secrets: Jonathan believes the most memorable games invite players to discover hidden layers. Secrets create mystery, turning mechanics into worlds worth revisiting. As designers, we should craft experiences that reward curiosity, giving players reasons to return again and again.

Show Notes

"Pain isn’t bad. Damage is bad." (00:17:57)

This framing really resonated with me. Creative projects often hurt, the late nights, the tough feedback, the near-misses, but that’s not the same as damage. Damage is when you burn out, ruin relationships, or risk your financial stability. Learning to distinguish between the two is essential. Pain can be a teacher or a compass; damage is a warning sign.

"Your critics are right about you." (00:27:14)

It’s a hard truth, but Jonathan is right. The ego wants to believe that critics don’t understand us, yet their words often hold a kernel of truth. When I apply this mindset, I can let go of defensiveness and see criticism as fuel for growth. Its a reminder to use feedback to sharpen both my work and myself.

"The thing that Zynga was incredible at was experimentation… sometimes a dozen experiments at once." (00:50:37)

At Zynga, experiments weren’t random, instead they were structured, frequent, and scaled. As a designer, I take from this that experimentation should validate vision, not replace it. Numbers can guide us toward sharper solutions, but they can’t generate the spark that makes a game truly special.

"Philosophically, the purpose of gameplay is to hide secrets." (01:08:29)

I love this idea. Secrets are what keep players coming back: hidden interactions, unexpected depth, and little discoveries that reward curiosity. A great tip for RPG game masters is to place a secret in every location so players always have something to unravel, with each secret offering a way to draw them back on track. In my own designs, I’ve found that the best games aren’t the ones that reveal everything up front, but the ones that invite players into a world where there’s always more to discover. That sense of mystery is what makes play feel alive.

Elan Lee (@elanlee) is the co-creator and chief executive officer of Exploding Kittens, a leading gaming and entertainment company. Under his leadership, Exploding Kittens has expanded its portfolio to nearly 30 different games with more than 60 million games sold in more than 50 countries since its founding in 2015.Before founding Exploding Kittens, Lee was the chief design officer at Xbox Entertainment Studios, where he led the Interactive Entertainment Portfolio. Prior to that, he was the founder and chief creative officer of Fourth Wall Studios and co-founder of 42 Entertainment. He began his career at Microsoft Games Studios as a lead designer on the original Xbox.Lee has won a Primetime Emmy for the series Dirty Work; Game Innovator of the Year for Exploding Kittens; a Peabody Award for the world’s first alternate reality game, The Beast; and an IndieCade Trailblazer Award for a distinguished career in interactive entertainment, among others.

In this episode, Elan and I discuss into how his company built their rigorous playtesting culture, why marketing is inseparable from product design, and how pitching to Target and Walmart is just another kind of game. Whether you’re trying to break into retail, sharpen your viral marketing instincts, or simply design games people can’t stop playing, this conversation will give you both insight and inspiration

Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways

* Execution is the Superpower: From manufacturing to social media strategy, Elan’s team treats execution as part of game design. Elan explains why 80% of his company are marketers, producers, and logistics experts, all aligned around making games irresistible to discover and play.

* Marketing is Product Design: At Exploding Kittens, marketers have veto power. A game might be hilarious to play in the room, but if it can’t be captured in a five-second social video, the game never makes it out of the room. Elan shares how his team tests hundreds of games at design retreats, then filters them through a marketing lens to ensure the product is not only fun but also instantly communicable and shareable.

* Play to Sell: When pitching to Target or Walmart, Elan doesn’t “sell” games—he plays them. He gets buyers into the experience, proving the fun directly. This approach yields extraordinary success rates, with most of Exploding Kittens’ pitched games picked up for retail. Elan reframes pitching as playing with new friends, making joy the ultimate sales tool.

Show Notes

"She said, ‘I just want you to take a moment and take a breath and realize you built this thing.’" 00:04:46

It’s easy as creators to focus on what’s broken or what needs fixing (I know I fall into this mindset myself) but sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is step back, practice gratitude, and recognize how far you’ve come. Elan’s wife reminded him of this during a board meeting, and it’s a lesson all of us can use to cultivate more joy in our creative journey.

"It doesn’t matter if it’s the best game in the world. If they don’t know how to sell it, it is not worth wasting our time on." 00:15:15

Sometimes as game designers, we feel like the job ends once the mechanics click. Marketing can seem like an afterthought, but the truth is that it’s part of product design. Elan bakes this into his process by giving his marketing team veto power at design retreats. It’s a powerful reminder: if you want your game to succeed, you must think not only about how it plays but also about how it will be discovered. For Elan, that means asking whether a game can be sold in five seconds on social media. He shares stories of projects he loved that never made it to market because his team couldn’t find a way to sell them. This strategy is tied directly to reaching the casual gameplay audience, which demands this very specific approach.

"All I do is I talk to my friends about how much fun they are about to have, and then I prove it." 00:32:25

Elan’s approach to pitching games is radically simple: instead of talking, play the game and let the experience do the work. Whether you’re pitching to Target or teaching your prototype at a convention, the best way to win people over is to let them feel the joy for themselves. Hearing this made me rethink my own approach, as I’ve often been guilty of trying to “sell” too much instead of simply playing.

“[Poetry for Neanderthals] is, in its purest form, a tool set to let you talk to other people in the room." 01:04:01Elan describes his games as tool sets that let players entertain each other, which is why games like Poetry for Neanderthals or Codenames can stay fun even after dozens of plays. My philosophy takes a different angle: I aim to design games that last a lifetime, so my team thinks deeply about what the 100th play will feel like, something Elan admits he never has to think about with his own games, designed for his casual gaming audience.

Whether your players stick around for ten plays or a hundred, the real secret is the same: Whether they’re crushing their opponents with clever plays or laughing together as they stumble through ridiculous challenges—great games create space for players to shine.

At Gen Con this year, we kicked off Ascension’s 15-year anniversary celebration. I had the chance to meet so many fans who have been part of this community for over a decade; the experience was both humbling and rewarding.

We just launched the Gamefound Campaign for the Ascension 15th Anniversary Collector’s Edition and I’ve been reflecting on the incredible journey that brought us here. What began as a casual prototype I created to play with friends between rounds of Magic tournaments has grown into a game that connects millions of players around the world.

Here are the five most important lessons I've learned, each has transformed Ascension from a prototype to a global phenomenon.

Lesson 1: Prototype and Iterate Fast

When I first started working on Ascension, I never expected it to become the success it is today. It was 2009, and I had just quit my job to start my own game company. The funny thing about starting a company is that until you’re making money and collaborating with others, the difference between “CEO/Game Designer” and “guy sitting on his couch” is mostly a matter of attitude.

At the time, I had spent over a hundred hours playing the deckbuilding game Dominion. This game pioneered the genre, offering the fun of deckbuilding without the hassle of collecting cards. As a Magic: The Gathering Pro, I loved that it delivered the joy of constructing a deck without buying packs or managing a collection. Eventually, however, the game became predictable. Because each setup of available cards was fixed from the start, I rarely needed to change my strategy. I also found that the game took too long to set up, impacting the ratio of fun to busy work in a way I thought could be improved.

The secret to creating Ascension was simple: remove the things from Dominion that get in the way of fun.

My first prototype was literally just a shuffled pile of Dominion cards, which instantly cut 20 minutes off setup time. Mind you, this prototype wasn’t good, but it gave me a quick sense of how the gameplay might feel, and I could see a spark of something great there. My next prototype was nothing more than sharpie scribbles on blank cards. Since my prototypes were quick and ugly, I had no problem throwing them out and making rapid changes. That freedom allowed Ascension to go from idea to store shelves in under 18 months.

The lesson: Your first prototype should be so ugly you're embarrassed to show it to anyone. That embarrassment is freedom—freedom to fail fast, change everything, and find the fun without falling in love with your first ideas.

Lesson 2: When in Doubt, Cut it out

Most new designers try to solve problems by adding things to their games. The correct answer is almost always to cut instead.

Ascension started by cutting Dominion’s purchase and play restrictions. This streamlined the game and gave players more choices each turn, but also required me to add a second resource [power] to keep tension high. This change was just the start, the biggest cut came much later in development.

Ascension’s signature innovation was the ever changing center row, which dramatically increased the variety in each game. At the same time, this mechanic also created the risk of a stalled board state, meaning that if players weren’t able to buy anything from the center, nothing would change and the game would drag on. My original solution was a “conveyor belt” mechanic, where, at the end of each turn, the rightmost card was banished and everything slid down. This guaranteed movement and created tension as cards neared the edge.

The problem was that players kept forgetting to slide the cards down. Every. Single. Game.

I tried everything: special cards that interacted with the conveyor belt, giant reminder text on the board, entire mechanics to make sliding feel essential. Nothing worked. Then one playtester asked the question that should have been obvious but I was blind to: "What if we just cut that rule?"

We shuffled up, played without it, and never looked back. The game was cleaner, faster, and more fun. Did the board stall occasionally? Yes, but we could mitigate that by subtly adjusting card costs and adding banish effects players could buy when needed. In this case, the conveyor belt cure was far worse than the occasional stalled board disease.

The lesson: Every mechanic costs mental energy. When facing a design challenge, always ask first: "What can I eliminate to solve this problem?" Remember, "dead now" doesn't mean "dead forever." Cut mechanics make great expansion content later.

Lesson 3: Perfect Your Pitch Through Repetition

Every game needs a killer hook, and the only way to find it is through repetition. Brutal, exhausting repetition.

I learned this the hard way at my first Gen Con booth, where we sold the first copies of Ascension 15 years ago. Over the course of the show, you pitch the game a hundred times. You refine, adjust, and figure out what works. By the end, I could pitch and demo Ascension in my sleep. I knew exactly how to get someone hooked, and the moment I no longer needed to be there (for Ascension, it’s usually turn three, when players start seeing the new cards they purchased and get excited about improving their decks).

Whenever possible, use things your audience already knows as a reference, combine two familiar concepts, or give a twist to something they’ve seen before. You need to get information about your target audience and customize the pitch to them. Once they’re hooked, you can guide them into a demo and, hopefully, into buying the game and sharing it with friends.

In 2010, if I knew my audience played Magic, my go-to pitch was:

“Imagine all the fun of drafting card packs in Magic, all with just one lifetime purchase.”

If they were familiar with Dominion, an effective pitch was:

“Ascension is like Dominion, but with a fun fantasy theme and you can play an entire game in the time it takes to set up a game of Dominion.”

If they weren’t familiar with either game category, I would usually start with a more theme forward pitch:

“Ascension is a 30 minute card game where you recruit mighty heroes and weapons to defeat monsters and earn honor.”

At first, pitching this way feels awkward. You have to train yourself to read the audience, adapt, and take feedback from their reactions. The best games also make it easy for players to teach friends, and those people become your best marketers. The more you practice pitching and running live demos, the more it will shape your design choices, helping you create games that are not only fun to play, but also fun to learn and teach.

The lesson: Practice pitching your game early and often. Alex Yeager’s 2-2-2 demo framework is a fantastic tool for game designers (you can hear more about it on my podcast with Alex here). Whether you need a two-sentence pitch, a two-minute overview, or a two-player demo, tailoring the level of detail to your audience is key. This approach prevents overwhelming your audience with too much information at once while still providing a clear and concise introduction to your game.

Lesson 4: Know Your Core Tension and Protect It

Every great game revolves around one central tension that hooks players.

* In Uno, you're trying to empty your hand without unlocking your opponents' cards.

* In chess, you protect your king while threatening your opponent's king.

* In poker, you want to win the pot but must risk chips without knowing what others hold.

* In Magic: The Gathering, the one-land-per-turn restriction forces agonizing tradeoffs about which spells to cast.

For Ascension, the core tension is this: adapting to an ever-changing market while your opponents threaten to snatch the exact cards you need.

The game sings when there are multiple exciting cards supporting your strategy, but your opponent might grab them first. Every choice matters because the board state is temporary. Purchasing a Mechana construct early makes each successive mechana construct better, but if your opponent cuts you off from the cards you need then your strategy could fall apart.

Understanding this core tension has guided 15 years of expansions. Every new mechanic is built to enhance this central dynamic, but never replace it. Our newest expansion, Ascension Legends, turns faction choice into a higher-stakes decision than ever with the Legendary Track system. As you climb each faction's track, you unlock powerful bonuses. Suddenly, that “meh” Lifebound hero becomes essential because it pushes you toward a game-breaking legendary power. Multi-faction cards become contested treasures. The tension ratchets up, but the heart of Ascension remains intact.

In the 15th anniversary campaign, I’ve designed an entirely new card type that impacts every game called Chronicles. Chronicle cards were an interesting challenge to design, because I wanted to make something that honored Ascension’s history, impacts every game, and could work with whatever expansion(s) you chose to play it with. But I’ve always believed constraints breed creativity and these constraints were no exception. There are 17 Chronicle cards available in this campaign. At the start of the game, you can select any two of them and set them beside the center row. Each one adds a new game rule or unique cards to the game. Each of these 17 cards was designed to highlight one of our previous expansions and compress its impact on the core tension into a single effect. Because they are promos and players can opt in to which ones they want to play with, I also felt more free to make more powerful abilities that I would never put into a normal set. For example, one card representing Darkness Unleashed, where we first introduced transforming cards, adds the rule: “At the start of the game, each player removes one Apprentice and one Militia from their Starting Deck and Transforms them into one Mystic and one Heavy Infantry.” These cards are a great way to radically shake up the game and have some fun reevaluating old cards and strategies in the light of new mechanics. You can learn more about the new card type in our update here.

The lesson: Identify your game's core tension in one or two sentences. Write it down. Frame it. Before adding any new mechanic, ask: "Does this enhance or dilute our core?" As your game inevitably grows more complex, staying true to its core ensures it evolves in the right direction.

Think Like A Game Designer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Lesson 5: Create Space for Community and Connection

At GenCon, a father approached me with his 11-year-old daughter in tow.

"I just wanted to thank you," he said. "Ascension has become our special thing. We play together almost every night, and it's given us this amazing way to connect."

His daughter beamed and jumped into the conversation, eager to tell me about her favorite faction (lifebound) and the strategies she'd discovered.

What struck me wasn’t just their enthusiasm—it was the math. She wasn’t even born when Ascension first released in 2010. Yet here she was, fifteen years later, experiencing the same joy of discovery that’s captivated players from day one. That’s when I realized we hadn’t just created a game—we’d built something that bridges generations.

From the beginning, Ascension was deliberately designed to feel less confrontational than other strategy games. You're not attacking other players—you're all racing toward your own goals while your opponent does the same. Only the shared center row and occasional monster effect encourage direct competition.

This makes Ascension approachable to partners, friends, and family members who might be intimidated by more aggressive games. I’ve heard from hundreds of players who say Ascension was their entry point into tabletop gaming. Even the partner of a hardcore gamer can enjoy Ascension because even when you lose, you still get to build something cool and feel progression throughout the game.

This design philosophy has created a community where parents can genuinely enjoy playing with their children, where couples can bond over evening games, and where someone whose only card game experience is Uno can sit down and have fun within minutes. The rules are simple enough to teach quickly, but the strategy is deep enough to reward returning players.

The secret to lasting community is making everyone feel welcome at the table. Even competitive card games like Magic have benefited enormously from more social formats like Commander which allow new players to enjoy the experience without as much direct conflict. Even for SolForge Fusion, the game I co-created with Richard Garfield as a very competitive game, we created a campaign mode and storyline tournaments that make players allies against a common cause, helping them root for each other and take on challenges that are less directly antagonistic with other players.

The lesson: Your game's community will outlive any individual player if you design it to include rather than exclude, to welcome rather than intimidate, and to create shared positive experiences rather than zero-sum conflicts. Think about how your design allows players of different skill levels to enjoy the journey together. The best victories are the ones you can celebrate with the person across the table, not at their expense.

Fifteen years ago, I was just a guy on a couch with a dream and a Sharpie. Today, Ascension connects hundreds of thousands of players across the world—parents and children, partners and friends, veterans and newcomers. As we launch our 15th anniversary campaign on Gamefound, featuring exclusive anniversary editions and the brand-new designs, I'm not just grateful for the game we've built. I'm grateful for the community you've helped us create.

I am beyond grateful for the community that has supported the last 15 years, and I can’t wait to continue to grow together over the next 15!

Join our 15th anniversary celebration at Gamefound and get exclusive anniversary rewards available nowhere else.

— Justin Gary

Tim Ferriss is a category of one. His innovative approach to life and business has helped him to launch 5 New York Times Bestellers, build one of the most influential podcasts in the world with over one billion downloads, become an early stage investor in companies like Uber, Facebook, Shopify, Duolingo and more. His #1 New York Times Bestselling Book, The 4-Hour Work Week, was part of the inspiration for me to quit my job and start my own company (you can here more of that story in my appearance on Tim’s podcast here). And now he has taken all of those skills and brought them to game design with the release of Coyote. We dive deep on all of these topics and learn how Tim selects and approaches each new arena he seeks to conquer. Tim deliver’s on many insights that will apply to you regardless of your creative field.

Think Like A Game Designer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Cole Wehrle is one of the most innovative minds in board game design today. Cole is a partner at Leder Games, but best-known as the creator of Root, the woodland war game that redefined asymmetric play. Cole’s work reaches far beyond cute meeples and clever mechanics, with a background in history and a career in academia, Cole approaches game design as a way to explore systems of power, narrative ambiguity, and the complexity of human behavior. In this episode, Cole and I dive deep into the tension between control and chaos, discussing how historical research fuels good design, and why the best games ask players to grapple with uncomfortable truths. Whether you’re designing your first prototype or searching for deeper meaning in your work, this conversation will challenge you to think differently about what games can do.

Amy Lowe is a marketer, strategist, and lifelong nerd whose career spans over two decades helping brands connect with audiences in meaningful ways. Though she’s worked across industries, Amy found her passion in the tabletop gaming space as the marketing and communications manager for the Game Manufacturers Association (GAMA). Now she’s bringing hard-won insights about brand strategy, customer research, and authentic positioning to help game publishers and designers not just sell more games—but build sustainable, trusted brands. In this episode, we explore why marketing isn’t just promotion but the vital bridge between your company and your community, how to identify your X factor, and why the courage to lean into your authentic voice is the key to long-term success. Whether you’re launching your first game or trying to grow a studio, Amy’s wisdom will give you a roadmap for connecting with players in real, human ways.

Derek Sivers has worn many hats, musician, entrepreneur, author, and philosopher, but his work maintains a single throughline: a relentless pursuit of living deliberately. He first found success by founding CD Baby, an indie music platform that revolutionized digital distribution before he sold it for over $20 million and donated most of the proceeds. Since then, he’s become a bestselling author of books like Anything You Want, Hell Yeah or No, and Useful Not True, each filled with punchy, poetic wisdom earned from experience. In this episode, we explore how to treat your life like a design problem, why marketing is part of the art, and how vulnerability and weirdness aren’t liabilities—they’re the keys to resonance. Whether you’re building a company, making games, or just trying to figure out how to live a more meaningful life, this conversation will challenge your assumptions and invite you to take that first small but deliberate step.

Think Like A Game Designer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

5 Quick Lessons About Crowdfinding

* Crowdfunding has changed: You need to bring your own audience and community. Success now requires months of preparation, including playtesting, reviews, and pre-launch marketing.

* De-risk your campaign: Validate your product ahead of time (e.g., with digital play), use scalable local manufacturing, and print to order to reduce financial risk.

* Offer meaningful, manageable exclusives: Make backers feel special with unique experiences or digital rewards that don’t overcomplicate fulfillment or inflate costs.

* Lead with gratitude and humility: Crowdfunding is hard and full of uncertainty. Transparency, community connection, and willingness to own mistakes are vital for long-term support.

* Build and contribute to community: Share not just your products, but your journey, learnings, and stories. That’s how you create lasting relationships and grow a global community around your games.

Dafna Pleban is a veteran comic book editor and narrative developer whose career spans over 15 years across original and licensed publishing. Best known for her work at BOOM! Studios, Dafna has overseen hundreds of issues, helping launch award-winning titles like Lumberjanes, Fence, Seven Secrets, and Goldie Vance. She’s worked with major creators including Tom Taylor, Mark Waid, and Kieron Gillen, and has shepherded beloved franchises such as Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Dune, Planet of the Apes, Star Trek, and Power Rangers.

Dafna’s creative journey began at UCLA, where she majored in English after pivoting from microbiology and discovering her strengths lay in storytelling, not science labs. A lifelong comics fan, she broke into the industry through sheer hustle—running a podcast to score a press pass to Comic-Con, then turning that passion project into a marketing job at BOOM! and eventually into an editorial career.

In this episode, Dafna reveals what it really means to be an editor in comics—from juggling creators and licensors to surviving the relentless pace of monthly publishing. We talk about the role of stress in the creative process, the economics behind launching a successful comic, and how great editors build trust, teams, and stories that resonate. Whether you’re looking to pitch your first comic or just want a glimpse behind the curtain of franchise storytelling, Dafna’s journey offers a masterclass in making creativity sustainable.

Find Some of the Comic’s Dafna’s Worked on Here.

Justin Ziran is a veteran of the collectible and strategy games industry. He has decades of experience shaping some of the most successful brands in tabletop gaming. He began his career at Wizards of the Coast, where he played key roles in product teams for Dungeons & Dragons, Magic: The Gathering, and the Pokémon Trading Card Game. In 2012, Justin became the President of WizKids, where he spearheaded the expansion of the company's product lines and reach. Under his leadership, HeroClix became a best-selling collectible miniatures game featuring Marvel, DC, and other licensed properties. He has overseen numerous board game releases and innovations across various product lines, blending business acumen with a deep passion for gaming.

With a business school background, Justin brings a unique approach to game publishing, combining data-driven insights, market analysis, and creative intuition to make impactful decisions. He firmly believes in "why not both?" thinking—seeking innovative solutions that challenge traditional trade-offs. His ability to merge strategic foresight with product passion has led to consistent success across multiple gaming categories. Throughout a highly successful career, Justin has focused his innovation and talent on the one metric I've always said matters most: player experience.

James’s journey into games began with a childhood love of D&D, a theater background, and a stint writing and producing for television, including Adult Swim and National Geographic. A former podcaster and blogger, he got his start in RPGs by self-publishing content on the Dungeon Masters Guild and building an audience through thoughtful commentary on 5e design. His freelance hustle and creative drive opened doors with Wizards of the Coast and later landed him a full-time role at MCDM.

In this episode, James shares lessons from his creative path—from making shark-themed heavy metal promos to designing some of the most beloved TTRPG content today. We talk about how to turn passion into a profession, the realities of freelancing in gaming, and what it really means to “get lucky” in the industry. Whether you’re a theater nerd, a math nerd, or someone dreaming of making your own RPG system, James’s story is packed with insights and encouragement for every kind of creator.

Jesse Alexander is an Emmy award-winning screenwriter and producer with over two decades of experience crafting iconic television series and groundbreaking game content. If you've watched TV over the last 20 years, you've likely seen some of Jesse’s work. His television credits include Alias, Lost, Heroes, Hannibal, Star Trek: Discovery, American Gods, and Citadel.

A pioneer in transmedia storytelling, Jesse has designed award-winning content that extends narratives across multiple platforms. His work in the gaming industry includes contributions to LucasArts, Predator VR, and animated trailers for Blur, as well as narrative design consulting for Valorant and other Riot Games titles.

In this episode, Jesse shares his incredible journey—growing up immersed in film and game culture, hustling as a screenwriter, and navigating the ever-evolving landscape of TV and interactive storytelling. We discuss the impact of AI on the creative process, how he channels ADHD into productivity, and the lessons he’s learned from decades of freelancing across television, film, and games. Jesse’s relentless passion for storytelling, genre innovation, and collaboration shines through, making this an insightful and inspiring conversation for creators of all kinds.

Find more about Jesse Alexander at: https://www.scribblejerk.com/

Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways

* As Creators, We Are the Product, Not What We Make: Jesse’s perspective on creativity was a huge lightbulb moment for me—he emphasized that formats change, tastes shift, and technology evolves, but the one constant in a creative career is you. Instead of being overly attached to any one project, Jesse has focused on honing his craft, staying adaptable, and evolving with the industry. This reminded me of how essential it is to keep learning and growing, no matter the medium or platform.

* Ikigai—Finding Purpose in Creative Work: Jesse’s career embodies the Japanese concept of ikigai—that intersection of passion, skill, and purpose. He spoke about staying humble, not taking creative work for granted, and grinding relentlessly to turn his love of storytelling into a career. It reinforced something I’ve long believed: success in any creative field isn’t just about talent—it’s about the work. If you love it, you have to show up every day and put in the effort to make it sustainable.

* Not Fearing Feedback is a Superpower: One of the biggest takeaways from Jesse’s story was how he developed an immunity to criticism early on. He grew up making Super 8 films with his friends, and the brutally honest feedback they gave each other shaped his ability to iterate without ego. This fearlessness allowed him to refine his skills, take risks, and navigate the competitive world of Hollywood and game writing. It made me reflect on how fear of judgment holds so many people back—if you can embrace feedback as a tool for growth, you unlock a creative superpower.

Think Like A Game Designer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Show Notes

“People started seeing that they could rely on me to generate content of a certain level of quality within a window of time.” (00:12:16)

Jesse reflects on his early screenwriting hustle, explaining how his relentless output and consistency helped him break into the industry. He emphasizes that success in creative fields isn’t just about raw talent—it’s about showing up, doing the work, and proving you can execute under pressure. This lesson is invaluable for aspiring creatives looking to establish credibility and build momentum.

“The truth is, you just have to decide how badly you want to succeed at the thing—and then turn everything else off.” (00:29:06)

Discussing the impact of ADHD on his creative process, Jesse shares how he managed distractions by eliminating them entirely. He credits his ability to stay hyper-focused on writing by avoiding TV, video games, and unnecessary noise. His disciplined approach serves as a powerful reminder that deep work requires conscious effort to remove obstacles and stay committed to the craft.

“I was the guy willing to talk back to executives and say, ‘You guys don’t get it, man—this show is great.’” (00:44:32)

Jesse recounts his time working on Heroes and how the network initially didn’t understand its appeal. He explains the importance of being an advocate for creative vision, even when facing skepticism or resistance. His willingness to challenge industry norms and fight for bold ideas is a valuable lesson for any creator looking to push boundaries.

“I just want to keep that beginner's brain activated—because we, as creators, are the product.” (01:03:45)

Jesse describes his philosophy of lifelong learning, from experimenting with AI to studying new storytelling formats like screen-life movies. He emphasizes that the entertainment landscape is always evolving, and staying relevant means continually pushing yourself to learn, adapt, and innovate. This takeaway is crucial for creatives who want to remain at the forefront of their industry.

Ryan Soave is a healthcare executive, therapist, coach, and speaker with over 14 years of experience in mental health consulting and counseling. Ryan has dedicated his career to guiding individuals navigating personal and professional challenges. His work spans one-on-one coaching, leadership consulting, and trauma-informed therapy, helping people unlock deeper self-awareness and achieve their best work.

In this episode, Ryan discusses his experiences with therapy and coaching, offering a practical framework for overcoming creative blocks, facing discomfort, and making progress in both work and life. He shares insights on how unconscious patterns shape decision-making, why emotional resilience is key to success, and how becoming more self-aware can transform personal and professional growth. Whether you’re a designer, entrepreneur, or simply someone striving for a more fulfilling life, Ryan’s wisdom provides invaluable tools to help you move forward.

Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways

* Embracing Discomfort as a Path to Growth: Ryan shared a game-changing perspective: the ability to sit with discomfort is what separates those who grow from those who stay stuck. We often try to avoid tough emotions, seeking distractions instead of facing what really needs to be addressed. Whether in creativity, business, or personal development, pushing through discomfort is what leads to breakthroughs. This hit home for me—some of my biggest successes, both in game design and entrepreneurship, only happened because I was willing to step into uncertainty rather than run from it.

* The Power of Clear Goals and Intentions: One of the most eye-opening moments in our conversation was Ryan’s emphasis on setting specific, actionable goals. He pointed out that broad ambitions like “I want to be happy” or “I want to be successful” are too vague to be useful. Just like in game design, where clear objectives improve player experience, defining concrete aims in life helps eliminate frustration and keeps you on track. The clearer the target, the more likely you are to hit it.

* Your Past Does Not Define Your Future: Ryan reframed trauma in a way that stuck with me—not just as major life events but as unconscious habits and strategies we develop that may no longer serve us. How often do we cling to outdated mindsets simply because they once worked? Whether in creativity, leadership, or personal relationships, we all have automatic responses shaped by our past. The key is recognizing when those responses are holding us back and having the courage to rewrite the script.

Show Notes

“We're helping people be able to lean into discomfort.” (00:07:01)

Ryan explains that therapy isn’t about making people feel good all the time—it’s about teaching them how to handle discomfort in a productive way. Too often, people avoid difficult emotions, which only reinforces their fears and anxieties. By embracing discomfort instead of running from it, we create the opportunity for growth. This lesson applies directly to game design, where pushing through creative blocks, iterating on ideas, and facing criticism during playtests (and after the game’s release) are all inevitable parts of the process.

“You’re not lazy. You just think you’re the ultimate authority of how your time should be spent.” (00:28:15)

Ryan shares a bit of wisdom from a mentor who changed his view on productivity: procrastination isn’t laziness—it’s allowing emotions to dictate actions instead of committing to long-term goals. In game design, discipline and clear objectives are essential for overcoming creative blocks and finishing projects. The magic trick? Set deadlines. Small, achievable deadlines keep you focused, help to build momentum, and push you forward.

“In the moments of the biggest discomfort, I'm not going to remember why I'm doing it. I'm just going to want to walk away.” (00:46:32)

Ryan describes the importance of keeping your core purpose front and center. People often lose momentum in business, relationships, or creative pursuits by focusing on immediate struggles instead of the bigger picture. Having clear, daily reminders of your “why” helps push through challenges and stay on track. A microcosm of this in game design is the core mechanic—staying focused on it ensures a cohesive experience and guides every design decision.

In my episode with Steven Pressfield, we explore similar strategies for managing this discomfort, which he calls Resistance. Check it out here:

“You’re not seeing the world as it is—you’re seeing it through the lens of your history.” (01:02:48)

Ryan explains how past experiences can unconsciously shape how we interpret new situations. To Ryan, the key to growth is recognizing when old patterns influence our current decisions and then learning to step outside of them. Self-awareness is the first step to real change in leadership, relationships, or personal development.

Matt Forbeck is an award-winning and New York Times-bestselling author and game designer with a career spanning over three decades. With more than 35 novels and countless games to his name, Matt’s projects have garnered critical acclaim, winning a Peabody Award, a Scribe Award, and numerous ENNIE and Origins Awards. He is also the president of the Diana Jones Award Foundation, which celebrates excellence in gaming. His work spans iconic brands like Marvel, Warhammer 40,000, Dungeons & Dragons, Minecraft, and Halo, as well as original creations such as Shotguns & Sorcery.

In this episode, Matt dives into his extraordinary journey, from freelancing fresh out of college to creating acclaimed projects like the Marvel Multiverse Role-Playing Game and Hard West 2. He shares lessons learned as a game designer, writer, and mentor, offering invaluable advice on building a sustainable creative career. Whether you're an aspiring creator or an industry veteran, Matt’s inspiring blend of passion, humility, and expertise is sure to resonate. Fun fact: he’s also the proud father of five, including a set of quadruplets—a feat that may rival even his most ambitious creative endeavors!

In this episode, Allie shares her journey from discovering card games during her final semester of college to becoming one of the most recognizable faces in the TCG streaming world. We discuss what it takes for an influencer grow a community, the discipline required to succeed as a full-time content creator, and the lessons she’s learned in handling criticism as a public figure. Allie’s take on both traditional and Web3 gaming shows how passion, hard work, and adaptability can really pay off. Whether you're interested in streaming, game design, or building communities around shared interests, Allie’s experiences lessons that can be applied to anyone navigating a creative industry.

Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways

* Keys to Community Growth: One of the biggest insights from Allie’s experience is how personal involvement fuels community growth. Whether it was through creating fun community events or simply building relationships with fans, she demonstrated the power of caring about your community. This reinforced something I’ve seen time and time again—when developers or creators become part of the experience as personalities, it transforms the relationship with the audience.

* How to Deal with Criticism: Allie’s journey to becoming a streamer wasn’t without obstacles, but what stood out was how she handled feedback—both the good and the bad. When you have a defensive response to criticism, it’s often a sign of insecurity. Allie’s ability to reflect and grow through early struggles mirrors a lesson I’ve written about before. (Check out my article on this here). Criticism, when approached with the right mindset, is one of the most powerful tools for personal and professional growth.

* Work Hard Every Day to Achieve Your Goals: Allie earned success by treating her passion like a full-time job. I loved the story of her PowerPoint presentation to her parents, laying out her streaming career as a structured experiment. From day one, she approached streaming with a full-time mentality, putting in the hours to make her dream a reality. This is a huge takeaway for anyone pursuing creative goals. Treating passion projects with the same discipline as a “traditional” job dramatically improves the odds of success, especially when combined with the previous to Ah-Ha bullets.

In this episode, Eric shares his journey from competing as a professional Warcraft 3 player—becoming the first French champion in a major esports tournament—to transitioning into business and marketing leadership. Before joining Equinox, he worked at massive companies like IBM and Webedia, where he honed his skills in sales, team management, and brand growth. Eric and I also discuss lessons learned from his diverse career, offering insights on the importance of being persistent, the value of experimentation, and how to align your passions with professional purpose. Whether you’re looking to crowdfund your dream game, build a career in gaming, or find your path in a creative industry, Eric’s story is filled with awesome, actionable advice.

Travis George joins us on today’s episode, bringing over two decades of experience in the video game industry. Travis has held leadership roles at renowned companies like Activision and Riot Games, where he served as the product lead for League of Legends, helping to grow the game into a global phenomenon with over 117 million monthly players. He later co-founded Vela Games, where he continues to innovate as CEO, focusing on designing new player experiences in the cooperative gaming space.

In this episode, Travis shares his journey from launching his first IT services company as a teenager to pursuing a formal education in game design and eventually playing a pivotal role in building one of the most successful live-service games in history. He offers critical insights into team building, the challenges of scaling a studio, and how to align your company around vision and priorities. Travis also discusses the lessons he learned from his successes and failures, including evaluating personal and professional growth, managing creative burnout, and pivoting when necessary. Whether you’re a novice designer or a seasoned creator, Travis’s experiences and philosophies provide a treasure trove of wisdom for navigating game development. Enjoy!

In this episode, Alex shares his journey, from his early days growing up in the 80s and programming on an original Mac, to founding Bungie and navigating the challenges of building and leading teams. He dives into what it takes to manage through failure, the lessons learned from his entrepreneurial ventures, and his thoughts on the future of gaming, including the roles of VR, AI, and Web3. Alex’s insights into game development, team building, and navigating the ever-evolving game industry provide invaluable wisdom for creators at every stage of their careers. Enjoy!

Nigel Roberts, one of Richard’s long-time collaborators, was involved in the development of MUD and has had a significant role in shaping the modern internet. He is a member of the ICANN Board of Directors and one of the founders of the .gg domain. Nigel also made history as the first person to win a lawsuit in the UK for unsolicited spam email. His legal and technical insights have been instrumental in building communities both online and in the gaming world.

In this episode, Richard and Nigel share their journey from developing the earliest multiplayer games to navigating the challenges of decentralized systems, community regulation, and virtual economies. They also discuss the power of “what if” in game design, the hero’s journey, and how both players and designers can express freedom and identity through games. Enjoy!

Alex Yeager joins us on today’s episode to bring his wealth of knowledge and experience from over 20 years in the board game industry. Alex is the Chief Operating Officer at Amigo Games, overseeing the company’s North American operations. Before his time at Amigo, Alex held various leadership roles at renowned companies like Mayfair Games, where he served as Vice President of Acquisition and Development, and Steve Jackson Games, where he contributed significantly to their demo programs. He also has a rich background as an event coordinator and demo leader, helping bring many games to wider audiences.

In this episode, Alex shares his journey, from falling in love with tabletop games like Cosmic Encounter and Illuminati to his deep involvement in demoing for Steve Jackson Games and CheapAss Games. He walks us through his innovative 2-2-2 demo method, explains what makes a game pitch successful, and dives into the marketing strategies that can revive evergreen titles like Bonanza. Alex’s insights into game development, pitching, and the mechanics behind building successful games provide a goldmine of advice for designers and developers alike. Enjoy!

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Scott Morris joins us on today’s episode to share insights into the world of game design and business development. Scott is the Chief Sales and Marketing Officer at Lucky Duck Games, where he has played a key role in the company's growth, including the recent acquisition by Goliath Games. Before his time at Lucky Duck, Scott held leadership positions at GTS Distribution and Passport Game Studios. He's also the designer of Firefly: Shiny Dice, a dice game based on the beloved Firefly universe, published by Upper Deck Entertainment.

In this episode, Scott walks us through his journey, from running the successful review site Crits Happen to transitioning into full-time roles within the board game industry. He shares valuable lessons on branding, including how to effectively pitch a game and the complexities of acquisitions in the gaming world. Scott’s deep dive into the business side of game design, along with his tips for navigating contracts and branding, provides essential advice for designers at all stages of their careers. Enjoy!

* Emotional Impact: Pay close attention to how games make players feel. Player experience is the most important metric for a game.

* Set Deadlines: Setting deadlines and doing your best to hit them will change your life—deadlines are magic.

* Core Design Loop: Focus on regular iteration and refining ideas.

* Community: Building solid relationships with other creators is essential for growth. Always ask what value you can add, and you’ll be headed in the right direction.

If these ideas resonate with you, join my Think Like A Game Designer Mastery Course to receive hands-on guidance and turn your game ideas into reality. You'll have the opportunity to pitch your game to real publishers, work with a creative community, and receive expert feedback as you bring your designs to life. Sign up now!

In this episode, Ethan takes us through his journey from working at MIT's Media Lab with AI pioneer Marvin Minsky to becoming a leading voice on the impact of AI on work and education. He shares practical advice on how creatives, including game designers, can wield AI to enhance their work while navigating its ethical complexities. Ethan and I reflect on co-designing the Breakthrough Game, which has been used by organizations like Google and Twitter to boost innovation and creativity. There’s a lot to learn from this episode, so get those notebooks out—Enjoy!

I'll be elaborating on these core attributes, which I believe are essential for success: Curiosity, Obsession, Resilience, and Empathy. My goal is to provide a deeper understanding of these attributes in your life, offering insights and practical advice.

CORE Attribute References:

Summary of CORE Attributes:

* Curiosity: The spark that drives learning and exploration. Stay curious and keep exploring.

* Obsession: The focus and dedication needed to dive deep into a subject. Find something you're passionate about and dive in, blocking out all distractions.

* Resilience: The ability to overcome challenges and use setbacks to fuel growth. Learn from your failures and keep pushing forward.

* Empathy: This point is about understanding others and adding value to people’s lives. Our creative work has to serve others to be truly meaningful and we need to enroll others into our projects by understanding and speaking to their needs.

These attributes have been crucial in both my personal and professional life. In this episode, I share personal anecdotes and practical exercises to help you cultivate these traits.

I’d love to hear your feedback and engage with you through my Substack and Twitter. I'm incredibly grateful for this community and the opportunity to share these insights with you.

Game Links:

* Ascension Legends

* You Gotta Be Kitten Me

* SolForge Fusion

Jonathan Tweet joins us today to share his 25-year journey through the gaming industry. His impressive portfolio includes titles such as Ars Magica, Over the Edge, Everway, and Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition. In addition to his work in game design, Jonathan is also a successful children's book author. His book Grandmother Fish is the first designed to teach evolution to preschoolers, blending his game design expertise with educational storytelling. In this episode, Jonathan takes us through his beginnings, from self-publishing Ars Magica in 1987 to freelancing for games like RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu. He provides insights into the development of Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition, explaining the open gaming license and its impact on the RPG industry. Jonathan also shares a personal story about a live event game he designed that significantly influenced my life. I can’t wait for you to dig into this episode—Enjoy!

Stephan Brissaud joins us today to explore his extensive career in navigating the gaming industry. With his roots beginning at Nintendo, Stephan has tackled roles from COO of Iello to President of the Game Manufacturers Association and Senior Director of Games at Funko. He’s not just a veteran; he’s a strategist and consultant who has mastered the art of bringing games from concept to consumer hands, navigating marketing strategies, distribution channels, and retail complexities. In today's episode, Stephan discusses how game design intertwines with marketing and expansion, sharing insights that creatives can't afford to ignore. Tune in to discover the depth of Stephan Brissaud’s impact on the games industry and the lessons from his journey that could redefine your approach to game design and creativity.

Want to support the podcast and get more design lessons?

Paying subscribers enjoy an abundance of extra game design content and an exclusive newsletter with new lessons, archive access, videos, and more! By opting for a free or paid subscription, you can get the latest articles delivered to your inbox and support this podcast!

Eric Price, a veteran in the tabletop gaming industry, joins us to discuss his extensive journey from localizing Japanese games to spearheading innovative projects. As the president of Japanime Games and GAMMA, the Game Manufacturers Association, Eric transforms how games are experienced globally. Under his leadership, both organizations have flourished, fostering strong relationships with publishers, retailers, manufacturers, and designers. In our discussion, Eric unveils his latest venture, Oshie Push, a trading card game featuring VTuber characters, set to launch simultaneously with this podcast episode podcast. Tune in to gain insights from a visionary who is reshaping the landscape of tabletop gaming.

Ben Robbins joins us to share his experiences creating acclaimed RPGs like Microscope and In This World. Known for his innovative approach to role-playing, Ben's work on Microscope has revolutionized how players build and explore vast timelines without a game master. In this episode, we discuss the creative processes behind his designs and his philosophy of making games that deepen connections among players to the use of Artificial Intelligence in games and creativity. Grab a notebook, because you won’t want to miss the lessons Ben has to share. Tune in to discover how Ben Robbins has been redefining the landscape of RPGs since 2005, inspiring gamers to see the people across the table in a new light.

Want to support the podcast and get more design lessons?

Paying subscribers enjoy an abundance of extra game design content and an exclusive newsletter with new lessons, archive access, videos, and more! By opting for a free or paid subscription, you can get the latest articles delivered to your inbox and support this podcast!

Jane Chung Hoffacker, an Emmy Award-winning producer for the acclaimed "Arcane" series based on League of Legends, is an incredibly accomplished jack-of-all-trades. She graduated from the Wharton School of Business with a degree in economics and then went on to get another degree in Game Design. She’s worked on everything from indy games to huge IPs like League of Legends and Guitar Hero. As CEO and Co-Founder of Incredible Dream Studios, she has channeled her passion into creating a game studio dedicated to bringing together communities through shared adventures. She’s an inspiration to me and I’ve waited a long time to have this conversation!

In this episode of "Think Like A Game Designer," we discuss the art of developing intellectual properties, thinking like you’re in a writer's room, founding an animation studio, and exploring the concepts of "Red Ocean" and "Blue Ocean" strategies. Get ready for an episode brimming with insights—you’re about to fill your notebook from the first page to the last!

Visit http://justingarydesign.com/ for show notes, game design lessons, and more!

Visit http://justingarydesign.com/ for show notes, game design lessons, and more!

Anthony Giovannetti, the co-creator of "Slay the Spire" and a pioneer in digital deck-building games, joins us for a discussion following our episode with his design partner, Casey Yano. He delves into their early days of game development, emphasizing the importance of completing and learning from projects, regardless of the outcome. Anthony also reflects on balancing work and life during the intense launch of Slay the Spire and discusses the positive impact of embracing fan-made mods like Downfall, which significantly boosted the game's popularity and sales. I highly recommend listening to Anthony’s episode along with Casey’s to glean every bit of wisdom from this incredible design team. Having Anthony on the Think Like A Game Designer Podcast was an absolute blast—enjoy!

In this episode, we unravel the layers of Morgan's creative endeavors, delving into his artistic pursuits and insights into harnessing one's creative juices. Whether you're a budding game designer, musician, or someone seeking to inject creativity into your daily life, this conversation promises a treasure trove of knowledge. Tune in and Enjoy!

In this episode, join us for an insightful discussion with Mark Otero, a true innovator in the gaming sphere. Starting with his humble beginnings founding KlickNation, an entity that caught Electronic Arts' attention, Mark's journey is one of risk, innovation, and striking success in game design. His unique perspective on community engagement, in-game economics, and narrative-driven experiences has reshaped how we think about interactive environments. Dive into a conversation exploring the challenges and triumphs that have defined his career, and glean invaluable wisdom from one of the industry's pioneering minds.