My first guest is the fantastic writer behind one of my favorite newsletters, Antiracist Dietician. Anjali Prasertong's writing has that extra oomph that hits you in the gut and can make you feel uncomfortable (that’s the best kind of writing in my opinion). Her writing focuses on dismantling the systemic barriers and biases within the field of nutrition. For Anjali, food is not just about nourishment; it is a gateway to cultural expression, community, and equity. Her mission is to challenge the status quo and promote inclusivity by highlighting the ways in which race, culture, and socioeconomic factors intersect with our food choices and access.

I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did and please be sure to subscribe to her newsletter or peruse her archive of writing.

P.S. There’s no transcription for this episode, but if you really need one just let me know.

Cook. Eat. Repeat.

Natalie 💗✨

Today’s episode of the BURNT podcast features incredibly talented cookbook author Leah Koenig. We dive deep into the world of Shabbat dinners, Jewish food culture, and the joys of learning culinary history.

In today’s new episode of the BURNT podcast, I’m interviewing Zakia Spalter from Occasionally Impervious. Zakia is a New Yorker living in Japan with her family and writes about the nuances of living in a monoculture country as an ex-pat. Her writing is the best kind of personal. It’s the kind that takes you on a journey of discovery as if you’re experiencing it in real time with her. Her writing is light as a feather and has supreme depth at the same time. I can keep gushing about her, but I’ll let you listen to our conversation instead. Before listening, go and subscribe to her newsletter. She’s currently on hiatus, but when she comes back you will be so happy that you’re reading and supporting her work (it also gives you time to read her archive)!

Natalie: Welcome to the Burnt Podcast, where we talk about mess-ups, kitchen failures, and advice on keeping it all together. Today we have Zakia, the fabulous writer behind the Occasionally Impervious newsletter. How are you doing today, Zakia?

Zakia: I'm doing really well. It's good to be here. Thank you, Natalie.

Natalie: Awesome. I'm so excited. Well, Zakia lives in Japan. Everyone, we are so jealous. And it's 7:00 PM my time and she's in the future. It's past 9:00 AM her time in Japan. Can you let us know a little bit about your background and why you started your Substack newsletter?

Zakia: Sure. Um, yes, I am in the future. It is the following day here in Tokyo. I started, okay, well lemme start. My background is in writing and in editing. I got my career started as a writer and editor back in the late nineties, back when AOL discs were ubiquitous and were like used as coasters for everything. And when you had to like, send DVDs back and forth to Netflix, so that long ago, but in new media and in publishing. I worked as an editor and content manager for a few startups during the dot com boom basically. So it was kind of a fun place to be at that time. In New York, mid-2000’s, my family started to grow. My husband and I have four children, so I turned my attention to parenting and that's pretty much what's been occupying my time for the time being.

Zakia: I started Occasionally Impervious last year because I wanted to focus on my writing discipline again and having a Substack that required that I work for a deadline for myself was a way for me to sort of get that happening again. So that's pretty much my background. Occasionally Impervious, I chose the name, because impervious is one of my favorite words. I remember watching Inside the Actor's Studio a million years ago. James Lipton, he, you know, does his little PR questionnaire at the end and [asks], what's your favorite word? And impervious was a word that popped into my head and it basically means, you know, incapable of being harmed and incapable of being bothered. And sometimes I feel that way, you know? Sometimes I feel that way and that's what I strive to feel. So occasionally I feel that way. And occasionally I publish. So that's where we have it. I treat each newsletter as a personal essay. And I pretty much chronicle my time here in Tokyo or pretty much anything that I'm turning my attention to. And it's just been a pleasure actually to write. [laughs] It's not always a pleasure to write, but I enjoy it once it's done and once it's published.

Natalie: That's awesome. Well, let's deep dive into what we're here for. We wanna know what is your story.  What is your particular story about a kitchen failure that's happened to you?

Zakia: Sure. Lots and lots of kitchen failures. I am a home cook and I have a lot of hungry people in my life that look at me every day to eat multiple times a day. I think my latest kitchen failure is actually a couple of years old. And the reason why I say that is because I don't even really see my failures as - I don't feel bad about my failures in part because I'm in Tokyo and I go into grocers. And when I first moved here in 2019, I would walk into the store and not only could I not read the signage and [I’m] basically illiterate here because I don't read, can’t speak Japanese. I also couldn't identify just visually a lot of the produce or products that were on the shelves in the store. And being vegetarian I have to be adventurous about my food choices because I need to know how to cook and so I have to try things that are unfamiliar.

Zakia: So yeah, the constraints of being vegetarian sort of gives me more room to try more things to figure out how I can put together a meal. I think my biggest kitchen failure was a sort of sense of pride kind of thing. It was Fall and I needed to make sweet potato pie and I was like, I know how to make sweet potato pie. I can make sweet potato pie in my sleep. I make a really good sweet potato pie. And I'm up for the challenge of trying to locate, you know the ingredients that I need. Sweet potatoes are really big- sweet potatoes are really popular here. People really like sweet potatoes. They're all over the place. So I was like, no problem. I got sweet potatoes, no problem. The hardest thing that I was going to find was condensed milk.

Zakia: I used my grandmother's recipe, that's what she calls for. Finding condensed milk it actually was harder for me than I thought it would be. You can't buy like a big old can of it. You have to- you can buy these little sorts of tubes. Tubes of it that look kind of like toothpaste because people generally use it during strawberry season. They use it during strawberry season to like, you know, to dip the strawberries or add like a little bit to their tea, but you're not like cooking and baking with it. So I finally found it in a store that caters to like an international crowd. It was like a million dollars, like the stupid $3.99 cans, were like a million dollars, but whatever. I was gonna make my sweet potato pie. I was excited about it. I had to make the pie crust from scratch because they didn't have, you know, frozen pie crust.

Zakia:  Fine, no worries. All good. Problem is I just grabbed some sweet potatoes and right then and there is stupid because they're all kinds of sweet potatoes. 

Natalie: Oh yeah. 

Zakia: Sweet potatoes come in a million different types of varieties. Sweet potatoes come in a million different kinds of consistencies, and sweetness levels, especially here in Japan. They take it very, very seriously. I know when I was back in the states, it was like garnet jewel and then Japanese sweet potatoes. Which again was not really truly just a Japanese sweet potato, but the ones with the purple flesh- the purple peel and the white starchy flesh on the inside, that's all I knew. Here the variety is kind of overwhelming and I just grabbed a handful of good-looking sweet potatoes. Turns out that they were absolutely the wrong kind of sweet potatoes to use for pie.

Zakia: They were overly starchy. They were, they just, it was just wrong. The pie was inedible. It was like, I kept trying to fix it. I kept trying to like add, I kept trying to do all these things and it just, it was just a dud. And like my entire family was- we had just moved here. We were looking for home comfort and they were like just looking at me like, “oh great, that's just, thanks”. That failed. That was so bad. I was like, I let everybody down. But at the same time, it sort of helped me dive into the world of sweet potatoes here, which has actually been super, super awesome. Roasted sweet potatoes are called yaki imo here. And people generally during the Fall season, people roast them, the same time they would be making pie. You can eat them just without any other addition or anything to them.

Zakia: And they're so sweet and they're so, so delicious. They're just incredible. They're so delicious. They have yaki imo trucks where people sell just roasted sweet potatoes, different varieties, and different sizes much in the same way that ice cream trucks are in the United States. It's kind of amazing. But one thing I wanted to back up and say, like, going back to this kitchen failure with the sweet potatoes, in particular. The lesson that I learned about it was to just pay more attention a little bit. Like, just don't assume that just cuz you think, you know, you don't always really know. And it was a good humbling experience. Also one of the things that I've learned about food and cooking, living out here in Japan is this concept of washoku. Washoku, and forgive me, I may be mispronouncing it, but washoku is this notion that food can not only be nutritional, but it also can be appealing aesthetically.

Zakia: There's so much intentionality around it. So dishes- not everything has to be this way all the time, it's just a concept. But the idea that you use the five senses. It should be the five tastes sweet, savory, umami, and salty. Bitter. The senses, sight, sound, touch, taste, feel like all of these are things, even the colors- five colors. Even seasonality these are all things that you think about when you're preparing your meals. So seasonality is a really big thing out here. Like you definitely, you would not serve, you know, X dish during this time. I mean, there are things that are here all the time, like ramen, you can get ramen all day any day. But even that, you might look at the way that it's presented and what is on top of the ramen? What is the ramen served with? I think this failure has forced me to be more intentional with my choices and to not make assumptions like, “oh, I know how to do this”. And it's like, actually you don't.

Natalie: I love that you feel like you learned the outcome from your failure was essentially kind of just to take your time and to kind of be patient, so to speak in a way. Just while you're cooking and shopping for groceries, I guess, at least from like me, a New Yorker point of view, it's just like, I just wanna be in and out. I don't even wanna look at what I'm putting into my shopping cart. It's just whatever. But I love that idea of, you know, seasonality is a thing here, but I love the way it sounds where it's like, even just the ramen. Like what's on top of your ramen? What seasonality are they bringing to something that's a dish that's 365, you know, all year round? But maybe in the Spring, it's something else. Maybe a piece of lotus root or something. I may be saying lotus root and it might not be lotus root. I dunno what's in season in Spring in Japan. But it might be something like a specific ingredient that correlates to the seasons or to the taste of the five senses. Like I really love that idea and that that's like kind of one of your takeaways that you got from just that one particular pie that didn't work out for you.

Zakia: Yeah, I mean, trust me, I've had lots of other failures, but that particular one stood out just because we were so disappointed. [laughs] But I haven't- we haven't made pie. I haven't made that pie since and I probably won't make it again. Even though I make it all the time until I get back to the States. But that doesn't mean that I can't, you know, make a different kind of sweet potato pie, and I probably will, you know, handle that here. But for now, that particular recipe is in the states, and I also just have to say real quick, I know there's a difference between yams and sweet potatoes. I just don't quite know exactly what it is. But again, when I was back in the US we used those words interchangeably. 

Natalie: Yeah. 

Zakia: And I know that they're not interchangeable. 

Natalie: Yeah, if you went to Africa they'd be like, “what?!”. Cause yams look like- yams almost look like elephant feet. They're really weird. They're huge. Number one they're huge and they look like elephant feet. They don't look like the little pretty sweet potatoes that are so interchangeably called yams and sweet potatoes. But yeah, that's, it's such a fascinating thing how we just kind of change words cuz we just decide to.

Zakia: But that's the point. Like again, I think it's also just getting older and just realizing how much you don't know and being okay with that. And so, you know, being flexible enough to learn from what you don't know and to improve on what you prepare and cook. So yeah.

Natalie: I love that. And one last question. What's one piece of great kitchen advice that you either stumbled upon or someone told you?

Zakia: Okay. I think, you know, this is all really basic simple stuff. I think clean up as you go along is the best kitchen advice that you can ever get. I mean I hate finishing a meal and then being faced with a big massive clean up afterward. I also can't cook in the kitchen if it's like super messy. So then that means I have to clean up the kitchen first and then cook, and then clean up the kitchen.

Natalie: I'm the same.

Zakia: I don't wanna cook anything. So yeah, clean up as you go along. Also, make sure you're not the only person who knows where everything is in your kitchen. Because that's also like the worst thing in the world. My kids don't get a free pass, for example, just for being kids. Like, they need to clean up, they need to cook, they need to help. All those things, put things away. I guess having you organized and knowing where everything is is probably my best bits of kitchen advice in addition to when it comes to food. Not being afraid to try new things. Not being able- not being afraid to incorporate new ingredients. I've learned so many new food types and incorporated so many different spices or just ingredients that I didn't even know existed, you know, before moving here into my cooking. And it's forever changed. Like I know that daikon- of course I knew daikon before I moved here, but I don't think I can live my life now without eating daikon on some kind of regular basis, which is hilarious because I wasn't checking for daikon before.

Zakia: But yeah, to be adventurous in your kitchen. I mean to be adventurous in cooking and adventurous with your food and your palate.

Natalie: I love that. 

Zakia: Yeah. I think that's my best advice.

Natalie: That's great advice. That's so great. Yeah, because a lot of the food writing I do is kind of me going on food adventures and I think that's exactly what I always try to do.

Zakia: Love your food writing.

Natalie: Aw, thank you. I just try to- that’s the whole entire thing trying to come across in my writing or in just in what I present to folks. My Sustack is just being adventurous. Try things that you might not be familiar with. You don't have to love it. Just try it. And if you don't like it, that's fine. Like, you know, everything's not for everyone. I wanna say that. But yeah, I love that so much. Zakia, thank you so much for being on the Burnt podcast. You have been so wonderful. I can literally talk to you about Japanese food for the rest of this podcast, but that's not what this podcast is about. So maybe we might have to have another conversation separately and just like an interview where I interview you about that.

Zakia: Yes.

Natalie: All the amazing things that you've discovered in the last, you know, three to four years that you've been living in Japan food-wise. From things that are now your staples in your kitchen to things that you didn't know you could live without. Like daikon. I love that, but I mean, fricking daikon is delicious. But you know, when your diet has changed and so like now your shopping diet. So I love that. We might have to have a part two of this conversation, for sure. Thank you so much. Where can folks find you? Also your Instagram.

Zakia: Sure, you can absolutely find me on Substack. It's the website is - the newsletter is Occasionally Impervious. You can also find me on Instagram there Occasionally Impervious, on Insta.

Natalie: Awesome.

Zakia: Natalie, thank you. It's been a pleasure. I enjoy your writing. Thank you.

Natalie: Aw, thank you. Likewise. I am a fan girl here. Thank you.

Cook. Eat. Repeat.

Natalie 💗✨

Friday newsletters are for paid subscribers, but since it’s the holiday season + I’m super grateful to each and every one of you, this one is on the house! Feel free to share, comment, or subscribe!*

*If you are hearing impaired and would like a transcript of this conversation please do not hesitate to ask and I will provide you with the transcript.

Cook. Eat. Repeat.

Natalie

Natalie: Hi Marguerite. Welcome to the Burnt podcast where we talk about mess-ups, kitchen failures, and advice on keeping it all together. How are you? 

Marguerite: Oh, I'm so good. And I have so many of those stories, so [laughs] excited to be here.

Natalie: Yay. Our first Episode and I'm so happy to have you. So Marguerite, can you let us know what's your background in the culinary industry?

Marguerite: It's all, it's a long background. I'm completely self-taught and I've been, you know, in and out of restaurant kitchens and in and out of like of embassy kitchens. I mean, I've done it truly from front to back. I actually did it backwards where I didn't think I actually had the skills to be in a professional restaurant kitchen. So I tried going out on my own and I really learned and did a lot of, you know, huge failure mistakes on the way. And then finally, when I was like 30, I got into a really great kitchen working under Jose Andres's amazing chef team and learned that I had done a couple of things wrong for, you know, a decade or so. You know, I've just learned so much over the last 15 years that I've finally able to like get out and put my own company out there and just really enjoy the kitchen for the first time where I don't feel the pressure of just getting everything perfect. It's just like fun now, which is so exciting. 

Natalie: That's awesome. So before we dive into your stories of the kitchen where can folks find you.

Marguerite: [laughs] Oh, well, so I have just relaunched my company before I was doing catering for up to 800 people and we were like a very official catering company. But since COVID, I've been able to scale it back and like make it a company that I truly enjoy being at again. So you can find me at eatreallygoodfood.com. It's my website or Le5FootChef. I recently had to change my Instagram name. I've just restarted all of that and it's gonna be an adventure to say the least.

Natalie: That's so awesome. I mean, catering for 800 people is - that’s daunting, I can't even imagine.

Marguerite: I can't go back there. Yeah. So now we specializing in allergy friendly cooking for you know, every palate to make sure that it tastes really good for everyone, but you know, it's safe for others to eat and we're only capping it now at 150 people where my friends are like that's still a huge party, but it doesn't seem all that big anymore. So- [laughs] but yeah, we're doing parties and receptions of people from 2 people to 150 and now I'm finally so excited to be able to offer classes for kids, teens, adults. And one-on-ones like, you know, if you have a teen who's really interested in getting in the kitchen or learning the basics or kids who you were at home with them for the past 20 months, [laughs] maybe you want them to be able to cook something now. So yeah, it's just like a fun learning exploratory place where we come to you and teach you stuff. So I'm excited.

Natalie: That is awesome. So I know before we hopped on our call I remember we were talking the other day about some stories that you have up your sleeve- [laughs] about some mishaps in the kitchen. What kitchen failures- they can be like really I guess so subjective, right? Cuz they're things that personally happen to us. To one person, it could be like- that's not that bad! And then to the person that it’s happening to it's like, no, no, no, you don't understand, like this was bad [laughs].

Marguerite: After this. Absolutely.

Natalie: [laughs] So what is your story that you wanna tell us that has happened to you that may have been like a kitchen failure or a mess up or something that seemed really big at the time, but you learned from you know. Now that you can look back in hindsight that you know, you're still alive and your hair is not on fire anymore.

Marguerite: [laughs] Yeah, well thankfully my hair has never, I do have very long hair, so thankfully it's never caught on fire in the kitchen. A t-shirt has, but no when you had asked me about this, the first thing that popped in my mind was when I was working for the British embassy. So in DC, if people don't know there's like, you know, embassy row and thousands of diplomats and dignitaries who are here either for three year turns or briefly over a couple months. So they have houses that they are located at. So I was a resident chef for a higher-up at the British embassy and like the nicest family you could ever meet, we still chat now. Like I adore these people and you know, it was- they truly started my career really.

It was kind of a fluke that I did a party for somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody and then I did another party. And then, you know, they were like- “Oh, you're a chef. Can you do the resident stuff?” So I was like yeah, sure! Of course, like total imposter syndrome where I was like yeah, I can be your chef. No problem. So, you know, I did I think a total of 85 dinners for them over three years and I really got to know the family and again, they’re just so lovely. But there was one time that I had practiced this dish three times cuz I really wanted to nail it. I got it down to a science, like timing and everything. I had put out the appetizer I had, warm the plates, I got the vegetables ready, everything was just so ready to go.

I think I was going on vacation the next day. So I was like- oh, another 45 minutes and I'm outta here. I can enjoy myself. Well they have two ovens in that kitchen. So one started smoking out and instead of smoking out the entire dining room- I quickly, cut that off and popped the lamb that I had seared. It was for the New Zealand embassy. So I imported New Zealand lamb, you know, like went above and beyond and I was pumped cuz I knew this dish in and out. So I seared the lamb, popped it in the oven, took it out 13 minutes later and my thermometer gauged it perfectly. And I was like, oh yeah, perfect, medium-rare. Let it sit for six minutes and it'll come up. So I was really excited. And then the appetizers go out, I clear them back and you know, I do a 13-minute drop for appetizers and usually like a 26-minute dinner or entree drop.

So I brought them- I still get a little antsy over this. I bring back the appetizer plates and I'm cutting into the rack of lamb and it is like purple stone, cold jelly in the middle. Like nothing has cooked because my thermometer wasn't calibrated correctly and the oven was in Celsius and only blowing cold air. 

Natalie: Oh my god!

Marguerite: [laughs] It was something else. Yeah, so you know two minutes pass, usually within 45 seconds of clearing, I am bringing out the first two dishes and so like four minutes pass, six minutes pass. And the politician comes in with his wife and they're like “Marguerite are you okay?” And I was like, [pretends hyperventilation] like not knowing how to handle this situation. I was like, you guys, it's just, it's completely rare. I don't know what to do.

And they were like “What can we do to help you?” Which is so rare in a client. Cuz usually people are like, I don't know like you're the chef ding dong like figure it out. But I was like, just please entertain them. Like I'm trying to sear it off. And I went- oh bloody hell! And he goes “Marguerite! Please do not curse in my home”. And I was like, oh my God, I forgot. Bloody like means something completely different in England -[laughs] than it does here. Like I just, my foot was so far in my mouth. I had a different leg coming out of my behind.

 So [laughs] I was just panicking. I was sweating. Like it was horrible. And he was like- “You know what? They're from New Zealand. They like rare lamb, this is definitely a dish for them. Like this would be the only people you could serve this to. So just cut it and let's get it out and we’ll help you serve”. So, you know, I am beet red if not completely purple at that point. And I serve it and out of eight people, I think four guys had like kind of eaten it and everybody else kind of left it on their plate. I don't even- I think I served something chocolate to go with the lamb. I don't even remember, but it was such a blur where I was like okay, all right. That was it. That was my final dish. That was the send home on Master Chef. That was the send home on chopped. That was- I'm never getting back in the kitchen ever again. It was horrible. And I get a call Monday being like “Hey, we need a dinner on Tuesday”. And I was like- oh my God, you want me back?

He goes “Maybe just don't do lamb?”. [laughs] But for weeks, probably two months after I would wake up and just be like - you did that! Do you remember? And you did that. Like I could not get over it. I kicked myself harder than anybody could have kicked me. You know, it was just unending for me, but they have completely forgotten about it. I laugh about it now. But it just seemed something that was so insurmountable. You know, being a chef, I guess for seven years at that point where that just shouldn't happen, but it did! But you get over it, you know, [laughs] just sucks while its happening. 

Natalie: It definitely- it sounds like it's one of those stories where like the thing that could go wrong, went wrong where it's like no one ever wants to serve anything raw and especially to a high profile client. Right? It's like one thing to serve something raw to your family, right? And they're like, really whatever order takeout, but where it's a high profile client. Someone who's like an ambassador or something like that.

Marguerite: And you're getting like $600 for the dinner where they're like, that's not somewhere that you really screw the pooch, but man did I. But you know, even one of the guys came up after and he was like [tries to do a Kiwi accent] “I really liked-”. I can't do that accent. I'm not even going to try. “I really liked that. That was great”. And I was like thank you. I'm gonna go. And I'll sit in my car. And it was at that point that Brexit was happening. So I would plate everything clear and then serve dessert and leave so that you could talk, you know, all the political things where I was like- it's really cute that you think I remotely understand what's going on and I can sell those secrets. [laughs] I'm the perfect person for this job. Cause I have no idea what's going on. Yeah, then I didn't see them for a week.

And I came back with my tail between my legs and knew whatever- like he's had a career for 35 years doing this. He's probably had over a thousand of those dinners, not raw dinners, but a thousand of those, you know, rubber chicken dinners. And it was like no skin off his back or teeth or whatever that is. But you know, it was just wonderful having a gracious client where I've run into other issues where it's like, it really is the end of the world for these people and they refuse to pay you or trash you online or, you know anything can go wrong at any moment in the kitchen. And it's just nice to have somebody in your corner.

Natalie: Oh my goodness. Yeah. I mean, what do you- how do you think this affected your confidence? Like you said that it took you a while to kind of snap out of it.

Marguerite: Yeah. I think two months was being generous too. It was probably like six months.

Natalie: Yeah. I mean that can really set you back, right?

Marguerite: Oh for sure. Cause then you also- well, I know from my own experience that once I've had that, it doesn't matter if the next client you talk to knows that story. For some reason, I'm like, I'm always an oversharer anyway. But you know for some reason felt like I had to tell people that. Where I'm like- why am I giving these people a warning? Like I am good at my job. I do know what I'm doing, but let me tell you this one really huge mistake I made on accident. Yeah, it took a really long time for me to get the confidence back. I think being self-taught like you and I are both completely self-taught. Where I've learned on the fly. I've learned in situations. Then I went to restaurant work where I was like- ah, had I known that 10 years ago that would been really good. But it just takes a long time to really must up the confidence to be able to put your name on something and say like, I am serving you this in front of your face. Here's my face so you know who did this to you! You know, [laughs] It's just really nice having non-difficult people to work with. 

Natalie: Amen to that. [laughs] So yeah- this brings me to the next question. What do you feel you learned from this experience? Like what were your takeaways after it happened after maybe like the six months of trying to regain your confidence? And to kind of remember that you actually are a skilled chef. That just because of one mishap or one really crappy situation that happened in the kitchen, doesn't define your whole career. What were your takeaways from the situation?

Marguerite: Always bring two thermometers, one that's digital, and one that is just a regular old read thermometer. [laughs] Always have more than one of everything in your pack. If you can afford an extra protein, always bring not a different protein, but like, if you need a backup, go ahead. It's better to serve something that's a little more rare than overdone cuz you know, some people are super weird about that. But it's choking it down and going- alright, that was a really bad night. And having the tenacity to get back out there and not just sit on your hands and be like, welp, can't do that again. It's just like having that face to face. I think 2020 all taught us that self-care is very important now. And instead of being so down on your luck, so hard on yourself, just go, okay. And it's impossible. I mean, nobody can shrug anything off [laughs]. It's just being amply prepared to the point where you're driving yourself nuts because you're too prepared and you're like, all right, that's when you freak out cuz you’re too prepared. But yeah, just extra thermometers I think [laughs].

Natalie: Have you made lamb again? [laughs]

Marguerite: Oh, I have. Oh yes. Oh, man. But not, uh, rack of lamb [laughs]. I made every other kinda lamb. Just not rack [laughs].

Natalie: Yeah. There's definitely a couple things in my arsenal of recipes that I've tried myself that I might have done well a couple of times and then I epically failed and I was like- okay, I'm not doing this again. Or I just like failed and I was just like- I'm not trying this again. I think one of the things for me was probably profiteroles. It took me a while to learn how to make-

Marguerite: Oh my gosh.

Natalie: Yeah, cuz I mean- for listeners, profiteroles are basically choux pastry, which is the pastry dough that's used to make eclairs or-

Marguerite: Classic British Bake Off.

Natalie: Yeah, cream puffs. So that dough- to make that little hard shell is so hard because it's all baked on the stove. It's all cooked on the stove I should say. And then you form it and make it in the oven. But like that crucial like 5, 10 minutes that are on the stove are so hard sometimes like you can scramble eggs. 

Marguerite: Whipping it, right! It's like, you're going really hard at it. It's exhausting. 

Natalie: That was one of the ones for me. Ooh.

Marguerite: Yeah, that's a hard one, but a delicious one when done right. [laughs]

Natalie: I mean I got over it, but yeah, there's always- I think everyone has their thing where it's like, it takes 'em a while to get back into the saddle. It took a couple of years for me to be proficient at that dough and I finally can do it way better than I used to. But yeah it's just, you know, takes time. 

Marguerite: So that's what is so special about being a chef. Is that- okay, yes…when you're at the actual event or you're on the line, you don't have the time, but it is something that is always being recreated. You are able to take the time and say like, all right, well that one really failed. I know I'm not a baker, so I don't really try out baking recipes. But I had like all last year, I just worked on different recipes. And like when I first started with gluten-free food, oh my God. You know, I was diagnosed at 19. So a disgusting amount of time ago. [laughs] But at that time, gluten-free was just kind of coming into being a fad. So everyone's like- “Hey, you're gluten-free. Are you for real?” Like, you know, made fun of me for it. And now it's the hot new trend and whatever.

But it was just all dense. There was the coconut flour or the brown rice flour that was gloopy and hard and you didn't feel good after eating it. And you know it came to the point where I was like, I love food enough that I don't need crappy food for the rest of my life or just like gluten-free snacks for the rest of my life and like boiled chicken. So that's what really was the catalyst for me, wherein college I actually had to leave college, moved to New York, and met you! [laughs] and I left college to work at Food Network. And like that was really where I saw things behind the scenes where I said, okay, everything is just broken down a little smaller. This doesn't have to be as daunting as I feel it is. An allergy is not the end of the world.

It's just a different world. It's a new avenue to go down. And through that, I've been able to help people who have medically induced diets with whether they have chemo and they can't process things or, you know, cancer of a certain organ where they have to eat very differently than they've been used to for, you know, 60, 70 years. But still making food that is good enough that they still feel like they're getting a treat or they're still eating well. Even when they feel they're very lowest and we've all been there, you know, there's just really tough days out there, but food really helps just everything and being able to create and make something new and make something delicious. Whether you fail at it a thousand times, that thousand and first time might be your breakthrough and you're gonna have the best dish of your life. So [laughs], it's just really a lot of trial and really a lot of failure and really a lot of perseverance. 

Natalie: Yeah, that's definitely the top word for it is persevering- perseverance [laughs] so the last question I wanna ask you before we end our call. So what's one piece of great kitchen advice that either someone gave you or you stumbled upon yourself?

Marguerite: Okay, well, so many things are flooding my mind. My grandmother is from Louisiana and for my entire life, she's been throwing parties where she says, it doesn't matter that it's at your home. People should always feel like they have left an event and you should feel successful after that event, no matter how it's gone. But if you're putting smiles on people’s faces that is hugely important. And it was just so daunting to me. And when I was like nine being like, but how do you know how to cook all of this [laughs]? And she said just find something you're really good at it. Start small and work on that excellence. So you're building on that really great feeling where you've created- like making a checklist where you've already done half the things, but you're like, look how productive I am!

So just find something you're good at it. Get good at it- start small, build on the excellence and continually grow from there. You know, if you're not getting the results you want, then stop beating yourself up, just figure out a different way to do it. There's always a solution to the problem where you can either make the problem so big and magnanimous that you feel like you can never get over it, or you can be like, what could a possible solution be? So just find the solution and it's gonna take time, but just, you know, always aim for the solution rather than the problem.

Natalie: That is great, great advice for sure in the kitchen, I think especially for folks who aren't cooks or chefs, or are novices just starting out.

Marguerite: They think- I can't even get in there! Cause they're like- well, I couldn't possibly but you can, you know, if you can add one in one, you can easily make a recipe of one cup of cheese and a half cup of milk and maybe you got a cheese sauce [laughs].

Natalie: That is so true [laughs]. Marguerite, thank you so much for coming on the first episode of the Burnt podcast for the Food For Thought. newsletter. Hopefully, we can chat with you again down line. I'm sure you have other stories that you can recall [laughs].

Marguerite: Oh my God. Another podcast on how much I've embarrassed myself for another time. [laughs] Oh, I'm so proud of you. This is great. 

Natalie: Oh, thank you so much. And we will definitely be in touch and we'll make sure that we will blast you for sure. Your website is eatreallygoodfood.com. DC based- Washington DC.

Marguerite: Absolutely. Oh yeah, we do the whole DMV. 

Natalie: And your Instagram handle is at LeChef, L-E-5-Foot Chef. Yeah. With the number 5 here- 5 Foot Chef. And that's where you can find Marguerite if you wanna hire her for any of the services that she provides. She's an amazing cook. I have tried her food. I'm not just saying that cause I'm friends. [laughs] Not the lamb. But yeah, you can follow her there and you can check her out. Thanks so much, Marguerite.

Marguerite: Thank you, Natalie.

Natalie: And I hope you don't have to endure any more crazy raw food in the future.

Marguerite: I'm sure there'll be some, well, hopefully not the raw, but crazy times in the kitchen ahead for sure.

Natalie: Awesome. Thanks so much. 

Marguerite: Thank you. 

Natalie: Bye!

Marguerite: Bye!

Monday we return to Eating A-Z in NYC with a visit to the Bahamas!

Cook. Eat. Repeat.

Natalie